a-seeker Posted August 18, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2014 God said to Adam...... Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: There are two things the Lord God accuses Adam with. (1) Adam listened to the voice of Eve. (2) he ate from the forbidden tree. And you ignore the part where the things He accuses adam of are 1) listening to the voice of eve 2) eaten of the tree of which He commanded adam to not eat of it. The Lord did not at all accuse adam of failing to protect the garden or the tree. You are projecting your opinion into scripture. Okay, I don't get the problem... What does everyone think "protecting" the garden mean? Why is this a big deal? clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 First of all, there is no record that Adam even saw the serpent. The serpent appeared to Eve. The command about not giving place to the devil hadn't been given yet, and neither Adam nor Eve knew the serpent was the devil. The devil disguised himself as a serpent, an animal that had every right to exist in the garden along with all the other animals God had created. God never told Adam or Eve to expel all serpents out of his garden. He gave Adam one command and that was not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eve was tricked by the serpent and gave some of the fruit to Adam. We can't even be sure Adam knew where the fruit came from till he ate it. We just know she gave him the fruit and he ate and his eyes were opened. I absolutely reject the notion that Adam's first sin was not throwing the serpent out of the garden. How in the world do people come up with these strange doctrines??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,175 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,479 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hi Curtis, You asked - `If Adam & Eve did not eat from the `tree of the knowledge of good & evil, `nor did they eat from the `tree of life,` how long would they have lived for?` Since they had not sinned they would still be obedient to God & would have received from the `Tree of Life` forever. The `Tree of Life,` is the Lord Himself. In scripture different personalities have been described as `a tree` - King Neb. (Dan. 4: 20 - 22) Pharaoh (Ez. 31: 8 & 9) Christ is the source of eternal Life. He continually sustained & nourished Adam & Eve`s life. Just as Christ `upholds all things` (Heb. 1: 3) so He is the `life` that Adam & Eve drew from. All scripture is to show us more of Christ, who He is & what His purposes are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,175 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,479 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hi other one, I do like your thoughtful questions & would like to attempt to answer them from scripture. This is the second part of your question - (#23) `...one would have to assume that He (God) would have expected Eve to fail. Seems to me that was what He wanted from the beginning. Because God is omniscient, we know that He knew what would happen. God also knew the consequences of giving man his free will. Without experience & maturity man would choose his own way. Although God made man perfect, that was the price of free will. The price being that God had to undergird man`s failure to realise the consequences of his actions. (Price - His entering humanity & giving His life.) I would say that God knowing all this did not `want` man to fail, but knew it was inevitable but also knew that because He would pay the price to restore man, that in the `price,` there was the wonderful, awesome enabling of a group of people that could actually live in the realms above where He is & become His sons. So not only would there be restored sons on earth, but incredibly sons in glory. `Who told them they were naked....` I believe the Apostle Paul helps us here. In 2 Cor. 5: 1 - 5 we read about our bodies groaning to be `clothed.` This indicates to me that Adam & Eve`s covering of holiness was torn apart, as it were, & they realised they were naked before the Lord. Their motives & behaviour was revealed, & thus they stood naked - spiritually & thus tried to cover up physically. `I would ask you this question that I have asked here many times.....Paul tells us that we are to judge the angels.....so when did God decide for us to do that....` `...do you not know that the saints will judge the world (system)? .....Do you not know that we shall judge angels?` (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) I have written out the scripture as it helps to see the two judgings together. Now the prophet Daniel helps us with this. In Daniel chapter 7 we see the vision of the throne of God. Thrones are set up, a court sits & makes a judgment upon the world`s system. `I (Daniel) kept looking until thrones were set up, & the Ancient of Days took His seat; (the great Judge)....His throne was ablaze with flames....& myriads upon myriads standing before Him; the court sat, ........ I kept looking ....until the Ancient of days came & judgment was passed in favour of the holy ones, (Israel)......the court will sit for judgment, & his (Anti-Christ) dominion will be taken away, annihilated & destroyed forever.` (Dan. 7: 9, 10, 22, 26) Who are these sitting on thrones that are judging the `world system?` In Revelation 4 we see thrones around Christ`s throne. Later we see them again agreeing with the decision made that Christ is worthy to take His great power & reign. (Rev. 11: 15 - 17) I personally believe these are representative of the Body of Christ who rule & reign with Christ in the third heaven. because they have `died to self,` they function as Christ`s body & not selfishly. By Christ`s Holy Spirit they are enabled to decide `what is right & wrong,` & declare just decisions. In relation to the `judging of angels,` Rev. 12: 10 follows on with this authority of Christ, which the Body of Christ is part of - `Now the salvation & the power, & the kingdom of our God & the authority of His Christ have some, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down ...` Being the court, the Body of Christ, I believe, sits in judgment upon Satan & his fallen angels & thus they are cast out of the Middle heavens (celestial/universe) & limited to the earth. (Rev. 12: 12) Satan`s downfall is progressively downward, exposing his true nature to all. (in heaven & on earth) I loved how you finished other one - `just one more example of how totally wise our maker is.` So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 18, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2014 I think your inability to compare scripture with scripture and come to a conclusion based on what the Holy Spirit teaches is sad.You do know how the Spirit teaches his children don't you? 1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. The difference between us is I do not add onto what is written like you do. You have been twisting scripture to created your own belief system to follow and ignoring what is plainly in front of you. God never condemned Adam with the "sin" you claimed he committed, yet you do. If God does not call it a sin, who do you think you are by doing so? Are you above God, are you wiser than God? You failed to prove where God held Adam accountable for allowing Satan into the garden, as you began to claim in post #25, and to turn the table, you then say it is sad that someone does not believe in such a twisted manner as you do, questioning if we are led by the Holy Spirit if we disagree. What you are teaching is false, not found in scripture, but a belief that you created by taking scripture out of context from throughout the bible and trying to make it say what is does not say. That is how cults begin, by false teachings such as what you have been doing. Notice that when Satan spoke to Eve through the serpent, his words were a twisted combination of truth and lies. Satan knew she would not physically die, but neglected to tell her about the spiritual death she would encounter, twisting Gods words by taking what He said and gave it a whole different meaning, one he came up with to lead her astray. This teaching has to stop. Keep in mind that this site is a ministry that holds to scripture, not to every wind of doctrine that flows through this site. We are not Facebook or Google where you are allowed to preach/teach whatever you desire to teach. I suggest you reread the Terms of Service you agreed to when you asked permission to become a member of this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 18, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2014 God said to Adam...... Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: There are two things the Lord God accuses Adam with. (1) Adam listened to the voice of Eve. (2) he ate from the forbidden tree. And you ignore the part where the things He accuses adam of are 1) listening to the voice of eve 2) eaten of the tree of which He commanded adam to not eat of it. The Lord did not at all accuse adam of failing to protect the garden or the tree. You are projecting your opinion into scripture. Okay, I don't get the problem... What does everyone think "protecting" the garden mean? Why is this a big deal? clb The wisdom of accepting scripture for what it says without twisting scripture to mean what it does not will be seen in the walk you walk. When someone begins to take scripture out of context and apply a meaning to a statement that is not what was meant, they begin to accept their own truth, not one given when following scripture. By digging into the meaning of "to tend and keep it", it is easily seen that God intended Adam to work the garden, keeping it clean and proper. To apply the term to mean Adam was to protect the Garden from everything that ever could happen in it is just a lie to create a strange doctrine and to turn people from the truth. That is just what Satan did when he twisted what God told Adam about the penalty of eating from the tree of knowledge, as he told Eve. Let see the subtle twisting of what God said and how it led to destruction. Genesis 3:1-5 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’” Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Satan changed the meaning of one phrase to deceive Eve, "You will not surely die". God spoke of death one way and Satan another. Because of the twisting of the meaning, Eve turned from God and sinned. Be very careful when following something new. Dig into scripture to see if what is being presented to you is what scripture really means, or if it is being twisted. In this case, the meaning of keeping the garden is like the twisted meaning of death, both leads down a false road. Be as the Bereans' were an search to find the truth and do not be so quick to accept something that looks harmless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 18, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 First of all, there is no record that Adam even saw the serpent. The serpent appeared to Eve. The command about not giving place to the devil hadn't been given yet, and neither Adam nor Eve knew the serpent was the devil. The devil disguised himself as a serpent, an animal that had every right to exist in the garden along with all the other animals God had created. God never told Adam or Eve to expel all serpents out of his garden. He gave Adam one command and that was not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eve was tricked by the serpent and gave some of the fruit to Adam. We can't even be sure Adam knew where the fruit came from till he ate it. We just know she gave him the fruit and he ate and his eyes were opened. I absolutely reject the notion that Adam's first sin was not throwing the serpent out of the garden. How in the world do people come up with these strange doctrines??? Where was Adam all the time Eve was being tempted by the serpent? Right there with her!!! Gen 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Did Eve know the serpent was the Devil? No, she was deceived!!! Did Adam know? yes!!! 1Ti 2:14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 18, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 God said to Adam...... Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: There are two things the Lord God accuses Adam with. (1) Adam listened to the voice of Eve. (2) he ate from the forbidden tree. And you ignore the part where the things He accuses adam of are 1) listening to the voice of eve 2) eaten of the tree of which He commanded adam to not eat of it. The Lord did not at all accuse adam of failing to protect the garden or the tree. You are projecting your opinion into scripture. Okay, I don't get the problem... What does everyone think "protecting" the garden mean? Why is this a big deal? clb The wisdom of accepting scripture for what it says without twisting scripture to mean what it does not will be seen in the walk you walk. When someone begins to take scripture out of context and apply a meaning to a statement that is not what was meant, they begin to accept their own truth, not one given when following scripture. By digging into the meaning of "to tend and keep it", it is easily seen that God intended Adam to work the garden, keeping it clean and proper. To apply the term to mean Adam was to protect the Garden from everything that ever could happen in it is just a lie to create a strange doctrine and to turn people from the truth. That is just what Satan did when he twisted what God told Adam about the penalty of eating from the tree of knowledge, as he told Eve. Let see the subtle twisting of what God said and how it led to destruction. Genesis 3:1-5 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’” Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Satan changed the meaning of one phrase to deceive Eve, "You will not surely die". God spoke of death one way and Satan another. Because of the twisting of the meaning, Eve turned from God and sinned. Be very careful when following something new. Dig into scripture to see if what is being presented to you is what scripture really means, or if it is being twisted. In this case, the meaning of keeping the garden is like the twisted meaning of death, both leads down a false road. Be as the Bereans' were an search to find the truth and do not be so quick to accept something that looks harmless. Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. "Keep" šāmar: A verb meaning to watch, to keep, to preserve, to guard, to be careful, to watch over, to watch carefully over, to be on one's guard. The verb means to watch, to guard, to care for. Adam and Eve were to watch over and care for the Garden of Eden where the Lord had placed them. "Dress" It means to labour and or to work. This was Adam's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncn Posted August 18, 2014 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 6 Topic Count: 406 Topics Per Day: 0.09 Content Count: 5,248 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 1,337 Days Won: 67 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2014 Thread unlocked. Curtis, I have removed your last post in reply to OneLight. (He is a servant) This site is very open to discussion. What is not accepted is teaching , breaking the TOS , nor a highly negative manner of posting. If you continue in this manner the thread will be locked. I fully uphold OneLights warning to you. "This teaching has to stop. Keep in mind that this site is a ministry that holds to scripture, not to every wind of doctrine that flows through this site. We are not Facebook or Google where you are allowed to preach/teach whatever you desire to teach. I suggest you reread the Terms of Service you agreed to when you asked permission to become a member of this site." God Bless Nigel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,036 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,781 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2014 What are the lessons learned from the garden????? Women should not listen to snakes, and men should not listen to their wives.... Abraham listened to his wife and brought into the world the wild donkey of a people that are still making war in the middle east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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