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THE SEVEN TRUMPETS,AND THE SEVEN VIALS.


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Therea re only three woes;and the third woe is the sevent trumpet rev.11:14.15

the vials included. We are learning,sorry to be a pain.

 

jesse.

 

 

Since you're learning how the trumpets and vials are related, what about the seals?

 

Do you recognize the 6th seal events have a parallel with the 7th trumpet and 7th vial events?

 

What timing parallel would the 5th seal be, the delivering up of Christ's saints to be killed as those under the altar were? I believe that is about the tribulation period of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe, but it could start on the 5th trumpet - 1st woe since Rev.9 reveals those not sealed cannot be killed, inferring those who are... sealed, can be.

 

1. christianity preached in the earth.

2.Peace taken away,means wars with a *great sword* (not  with bows and spears anymore).(with gun powder).

3. Is going on now.(darknes) famine,desease.

4.Will be the days of the f.proph.(death).

5.Is just showing the dead saints not yet resurrected,waiting for the last days saints to be resurrected together.

6. The 6th seal is showing the signs of the coming;which is the last trump.

 

The 7 trumpets is the wrath of God,starting with the first trumpet.(Not the seals). 

The 5th = first woe.

The 6th = second woe.

The 7th = third woe. this = the 6th seal,just the signs of the 7th trump.3rd woe.the coming.

 

jesse.

 

 

I don't see the 7 trumpets as God's wrath upon the wicked, for the 5th & 6th trumpets clearly mark Satan's control over this earth. The wrath of God Apostle Paul was speaking of is for the wicked only on the last day of this world when Jesus comes, the "day of the Lord" events.

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I've always believed that the trumps & vials are the same event.

  

This is what I have found, and it more than confirms it for me:

 

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Notice these Seven angels coming out of that temple already possess/have with them, the seven plagues!

 

That is important.

 

What plagues?

 

When were these plagues given to them since they have not yet received the vials?

 

Then when we read on, we see this occur:

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

So these seven angels already had (having = possessing = still carrying = (in this case) not yet initiated)  the seven plagues, but are then additionally given seven other items....the vials!

 

So the question becomes....what are these seven plagues they had on their persons whilst coming out of that temple before being given the seven vials?

 

And the only answer possible, and in context, can only be that they are in possession of seven trumpets.

 

So trumpet in one hand....vial in the other.

 

But are the trumpets plagues?

 

(Briefly...) In Rev 9:20, in the "trumpet section" and as a consequence of the trumps, we find the descriptive "plagues".... 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues.....

 

So by that admission, we can be sure that the effects of the seven trumpets are indeed described by scripture, as we just saw, (so no personal interpretation needed), as.......plagues!

 

Briefly, and in summary, this is what I was able to put together to complete the picture for this scenario to confirm that the vials and the trumps are indeed the same event.... all based on the seven angels already being given and still in possession of seven plagues...only to be given additional "items" and all before the first plagues are even initiated!

 

That tells me I am permitted to then do this: (since they are a related event and answers the question for itself)...

 

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

Rev 8:2 And i saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angels hand.

 

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

 

Rev 15:5 And after that i looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, til the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

 

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

 

Peace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I've always believed that the trumps & vials are the same event.

  

This is what I have found, and it more than confirms it for me:

 

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Notice these Seven angels coming out of that temple already possess/have with them, the seven plagues!

 

That is important.

 

What plagues?

 

When were these plagues given to them since they have not yet received the vials?

 

Then when we read on, we see this occur:

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

So these seven angels already had (having = possessing = still carrying = (in this case) not yet initiated)  the seven plagues, but are then additionally given seven other items....the vials!

 

So the question becomes....what are these seven plagues they had on their persons whilst coming out of that temple before being given the seven vials?

 

And the only answer possible, and in context, can only be that they are in possession of seven trumpets.

 

So trumpet in one hand....vial in the other.

 

But are the trumpets plagues?

 

(Briefly...) In Rev 9:20, in the "trumpet section" and as a consequence of the trumps, we find the descriptive "plagues".... 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues.....

 

So by that admission, we can be sure that the effects of the seven trumpets are indeed described by scripture, as we just saw, (so no personal interpretation needed), as.......plagues!

 

Briefly, and in summary, this is what I was able to put together to complete the picture for this scenario to confirm that the vials and the trumps are indeed the same event.... all based on the seven angels already being given and still in possession of seven plagues...only to be given additional "items" and all before the first plagues are even initiated!

 

That tells me I am permitted to then do this: (since they are a related event and answers the question for itself)...

 

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

Rev 8:2 And i saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angels hand.

 

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

 

Rev 15:5 And after that i looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, til the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

 

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

 

Peace.

 

Pretty much correct, because our Lord Jesus only gave us 7 signs of the end in His Olivet Discourse (Matt.24; Mark 13; Luke 21).

 

In His Olivet Discourse He gave us a specific timing for when those 7 signs would start with the final generation that will see His coming. He used the parable of the fig tree to point to that. I believe it was 1948 when Israel became a nation state again, based on the Jer.24 baskets of figs prophecy. Some believe it was 1967, etc. But the main point is... the generation that begins to see those signs, that generation will not pass until they see His coming. If 1948, then that generation is already 66 years old.

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How to show that the seals, trumpets and vials are three different events, each having their own seven events in them? The only way I can do this is with an analogy, since people do not accept how it is laid out in scripture.

There is a door in front of me with a sign on it that says "Seals". The door is open and I walk through. As I continue to walk, I see seven separate events unfolding, starting with the first seal and ending with the seventh seal, which the events I witnessed was alarming. At the end of the seventh seal, I saw another door that is now open, titled Trumpets. I walk through the door and as I continue to walk, I see seven more events unfold before me, starting with the first and ending with the seventh. These events were shocking, much more then the first seven seals events. During these events, I was also shown what took place, what is taking place and what will take place. At the end, I see another door titled Vials/Bowls. I walk through this door and as I continued to the end, I witness seven more events. These events are devastating, the wrath of God being poured out onto the unbelieving world. At the end of this I heard a loud voice claim “It is done!”, then another door appeared titled The Millennium, which was opened to walk through.

How scripture is written shows the seventh seal opens the first trumpet, and the seventh trumpet the first vial/bowl. The are not opened side by side, but in sequence. Some of the events may sound similar, but that does not equate that they are the same. Just as a parent punishes a child for continuing to misbehave, so is God punishing His creation. At first, the parent talks to the child until it is evident the child is not listening, so a warning is given ... do this again and I will have to punish you. When the child does it again, the child receives an easy punishment to get their attention. When they refuse correction, the same punishment is given, but more severely. When the child still refuses correction, the same punishment is delivered with even more severity. Each is the same kind of punishment, but they are all delivered at different times with increasing severity. So are the events in the seals, trumpets and vials/bowls.

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I understand your analogy but see it differently.

 

I do not see the trumps & vials as a seperate to each other, nor see the trumps & vials performing as a gradual-progressive warning method for the inhabitants of the earth, instead I see the trumps & vials as outright punishment for the worlds accepting of the beast and its king with his mark.

 

Not only that, but for the killing of the saints who refused the mark...other words, i see it as plain punishment for punishment deserved and nothing less.

 

I agree with you that the seals span over time and are progressive, but i do not agree that the trumps and vials are seperate events...i do see stages taking place between each trump and pouring of a vial before the next trump and his pouring of his vial etc etc...but just how long between trump blast and pouring...not clear enough to tell admittedly.

 

Nevertheless, the below scripture speaks of those saints killed for Christ by the world, and they are to be revenged by God at the appropiate time of His choosing.

 

So in support of my stance, in my view, i can see this request being fulfilled in the culminating trump & vial time allotment:

 

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

 

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

So i see the 5th seal as the age in which the persecution of the saints is taking place and leading up to the punishment on the world that chose the mark of the beast instead of choosing Christ.

 

This is where i see their prayer being answered:

 

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

 

Now God is acting on their prayers, He is now "hearing them", that is, He is accepting their request at that point in time as the time to revenge His saints, as vengeance is His after all...

 

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

 

This is the sign (earthquake etc) that punishment (trumps & vials) are about to commence, that God is honoring His word to His saints that the world will be punished and they (saints) will be avenged.

 

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

Then Gods revenging of His saints is completed at the 7th trumpet & vial which is concluded and proclaimed here:

 

Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

 

Which is concerning this:

 

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

 

Which is part of this:

 

Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

 

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

 

Which is also because of this:

 

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

Again, punishment for punishment deserved and not a progressive warning sequence, but, instead, a final and progressive punishment on that particular generation of the children of the mark whose punishment all begins here:

 

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

 

Wrath is for punishments sake, not for warning, that time has already passed, by this stage at the commencing of the trumps & vials, the door of the ark as it were, are already shut and sealed...the rain has already begun to fall....

 

This is part of what I see anyway...

 

Cheers.

 

 

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I've always believed that the trumps & vials are the same event.

  

This is what I have found, and it more than confirms it for me:

 

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Notice these Seven angels coming out of that temple already possess/have with them, the seven plagues!

 

That is important.

 

What plagues?

 

When were these plagues given to them since they have not yet received the vials?

 

Then when we read on, we see this occur:

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

So these seven angels already had (having = possessing = still carrying = (in this case) not yet initiated)  the seven plagues, but are then additionally given seven other items....the vials!

 

So the question becomes....what are these seven plagues they had on their persons whilst coming out of that temple before being given the seven vials?

 

And the only answer possible, and in context, can only be that they are in possession of seven trumpets.

 

So trumpet in one hand....vial in the other.

 

But are the trumpets plagues?

 

(Briefly...) In Rev 9:20, in the "trumpet section" and as a consequence of the trumps, we find the descriptive "plagues".... 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues.....

 

So by that admission, we can be sure that the effects of the seven trumpets are indeed described by scripture, as we just saw, (so no personal interpretation needed), as.......plagues!

 

Briefly, and in summary, this is what I was able to put together to complete the picture for this scenario to confirm that the vials and the trumps are indeed the same event.... all based on the seven angels already being given and still in possession of seven plagues...only to be given additional "items" and all before the first plagues are even initiated!

 

That tells me I am permitted to then do this: (since they are a related event and answers the question for itself)...

 

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

Rev 8:2 And i saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angels hand.

 

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

 

Rev 15:5 And after that i looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, til the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

 

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

 

Peace.

 

Pretty much correct, because our Lord Jesus only gave us 7 signs of the end in His Olivet Discourse (Matt.24; Mark 13; Luke 21).

 

In His Olivet Discourse He gave us a specific timing for when those 7 signs would start with the final generation that will see His coming. He used the parable of the fig tree to point to that. I believe it was 1948 when Israel became a nation state again, based on the Jer.24 baskets of figs prophecy. Some believe it was 1967, etc. But the main point is... the generation that begins to see those signs, that generation will not pass until they see His coming. If 1948, then that generation is already 66 years old.

 

I agree with 1948 also....I also believe Israel has been allotted only 70 years since 1948 before Jacobs trouble begins...but that's another subject. 

 

peace.

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How to show that the seals, trumpets and vials are three different events, each having their own seven events in them? The only way I can do this is with an analogy, since people do not accept how it is laid out in scripture.

There is a door in front of me with a sign on it that says "Seals". The door is open and I walk through. As I continue to walk, I see seven separate events unfolding, starting with the first seal and ending with the seventh seal, which the events I witnessed was alarming. At the end of the seventh seal, I saw another door that is now open, titled Trumpets. I walk through the door and as I continue to walk, I see seven more events unfold before me, starting with the first and ending with the seventh. These events were shocking, much more then the first seven seals events. During these events, I was also shown what took place, what is taking place and what will take place. At the end, I see another door titled Vials/Bowls. I walk through this door and as I continued to the end, I witness seven more events. These events are devastating, the wrath of God being poured out onto the unbelieving world. At the end of this I heard a loud voice claim “It is done!”, then another door appeared titled The Millennium, which was opened to walk through.

How scripture is written shows the seventh seal opens the first trumpet, and the seventh trumpet the first vial/bowl. The are not opened side by side, but in sequence. Some of the events may sound similar, but that does not equate that they are the same. Just as a parent punishes a child for continuing to misbehave, so is God punishing His creation. At first, the parent talks to the child until it is evident the child is not listening, so a warning is given ... do this again and I will have to punish you. When the child does it again, the child receives an easy punishment to get their attention. When they refuse correction, the same punishment is given, but more severely. When the child still refuses correction, the same punishment is delivered with even more severity. Each is the same kind of punishment, but they are all delivered at different times with increasing severity. So are the events in the seals, trumpets and vials/bowls.

Of course these "consecutive visions" are easy to understand, without need for an analogy. I just feel the text itself is showing 3 visions leading up to the second coming, instead of one long vision of ~21 events leading up to the second coming.

 

If this 6th seal event isn't the second coming, what event is it:

Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g]wrath has come, and who can withstand it?

 

Also if this 7th trumpet event is not the second coming, what event is it:

Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

 

“The kingdom of the world has become

    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

    and he will reign for ever and ever.”

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How to show that the seals, trumpets and vials are three different events, each having their own seven events in them? The only way I can do this is with an analogy, since people do not accept how it is laid out in scripture.

There is a door in front of me with a sign on it that says "Seals". The door is open and I walk through. As I continue to walk, I see seven separate events unfolding, starting with the first seal and ending with the seventh seal, which the events I witnessed was alarming. At the end of the seventh seal, I saw another door that is now open, titled Trumpets. I walk through the door and as I continue to walk, I see seven more events unfold before me, starting with the first and ending with the seventh. These events were shocking, much more then the first seven seals events. During these events, I was also shown what took place, what is taking place and what will take place. At the end, I see another door titled Vials/Bowls. I walk through this door and as I continued to the end, I witness seven more events. These events are devastating, the wrath of God being poured out onto the unbelieving world. At the end of this I heard a loud voice claim “It is done!”, then another door appeared titled The Millennium, which was opened to walk through.

How scripture is written shows the seventh seal opens the first trumpet, and the seventh trumpet the first vial/bowl. The are not opened side by side, but in sequence. Some of the events may sound similar, but that does not equate that they are the same. Just as a parent punishes a child for continuing to misbehave, so is God punishing His creation. At first, the parent talks to the child until it is evident the child is not listening, so a warning is given ... do this again and I will have to punish you. When the child does it again, the child receives an easy punishment to get their attention. When they refuse correction, the same punishment is given, but more severely. When the child still refuses correction, the same punishment is delivered with even more severity. Each is the same kind of punishment, but they are all delivered at different times with increasing severity. So are the events in the seals, trumpets and vials/bowls.

Of course these "consecutive visions" are easy to understand, without need for an analogy. I just feel the text itself is showing 3 visions leading up to the second coming, instead of one long vision of ~21 events leading up to the second coming.

 

If this 6th seal event isn't the second coming, what event is it:

Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g]wrath has come, and who can withstand it?

 

Also if this 7th trumpet event is not the second coming, what event is it:

Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

 

“The kingdom of the world has become

    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

    and he will reign for ever and ever.”

 

 

 

The Second Coming of Christ is at the last trump.  The problem, as I see it, is when people try to overlay the three different events when scripture does not.  When a person looks only at scripture, and not how we can arrange scripture to fit our understanding, we do see that scripture lays it out as it will happen.  The 6th seal shows the lost, hiding in fear, as they are beginning to see that Gods wrath is coming.  Nowhere does it point to the rapture.

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How to show that the seals, trumpets and vials are three different events, each having their own seven events in them? The only way I can do this is with an analogy, since people do not accept how it is laid out in scripture.

There is a door in front of me with a sign on it that says "Seals". The door is open and I walk through. As I continue to walk, I see seven separate events unfolding, starting with the first seal and ending with the seventh seal, which the events I witnessed was alarming. At the end of the seventh seal, I saw another door that is now open, titled Trumpets. I walk through the door and as I continue to walk, I see seven more events unfold before me, starting with the first and ending with the seventh. These events were shocking, much more then the first seven seals events. During these events, I was also shown what took place, what is taking place and what will take place. At the end, I see another door titled Vials/Bowls. I walk through this door and as I continued to the end, I witness seven more events. These events are devastating, the wrath of God being poured out onto the unbelieving world. At the end of this I heard a loud voice claim “It is done!”, then another door appeared titled The Millennium, which was opened to walk through.

How scripture is written shows the seventh seal opens the first trumpet, and the seventh trumpet the first vial/bowl. The are not opened side by side, but in sequence. Some of the events may sound similar, but that does not equate that they are the same. Just as a parent punishes a child for continuing to misbehave, so is God punishing His creation. At first, the parent talks to the child until it is evident the child is not listening, so a warning is given ... do this again and I will have to punish you. When the child does it again, the child receives an easy punishment to get their attention. When they refuse correction, the same punishment is given, but more severely. When the child still refuses correction, the same punishment is delivered with even more severity. Each is the same kind of punishment, but they are all delivered at different times with increasing severity. So are the events in the seals, trumpets and vials/bowls.

Of course these "consecutive visions" are easy to understand, without need for an analogy. I just feel the text itself is showing 3 visions leading up to the second coming, instead of one long vision of ~21 events leading up to the second coming.

 

If this 6th seal event isn't the second coming, what event is it:

Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g]wrath has come, and who can withstand it?

 

Also if this 7th trumpet event is not the second coming, what event is it:

Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

 

“The kingdom of the world has become

    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

    and he will reign for ever and ever.”

 

The 6th seal is EXACTLY what John portrays it to be: the "opening salvo" of the Day of the Lord. Not as easy to see, but still truth, it is also Paul's "sudden destruction."

 

The 7th trumpet is also exactly what John portrays it to be: the MARKER for the midpoint of the week. It is the END of 6000 years of man ruling the earth and the beginning of the 1000 years of God ruling the earth. God is not a liar. God gave the ruler-ship, authority and dominion of this planet to Adam, and when Satan deceived Eve and Adam sinned, Satan USURPED Adam's authority and became the "god of this present world."  John shows us that at the 7th trumpet Satan's ruler-ship ENDS and the kingdoms of the world are transferred to Jesus Christ the KING. There is nothing here that even hints at a "coming" of the Lord. All this will take place in the supreme court of LAW, IN HEAVEN.

 

LAMAD

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I've always believed that the trumps & vials are the same event.

  

This is what I have found, and it more than confirms it for me:

 

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Notice these Seven angels coming out of that temple already possess/have with them, the seven plagues!

 

That is important.

 

What plagues?

 

When were these plagues given to them since they have not yet received the vials?

 

Then when we read on, we see this occur:

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

So these seven angels already had (having = possessing = still carrying = (in this case) not yet initiated)  the seven plagues, but are then additionally given seven other items....the vials!

 

So the question becomes....what are these seven plagues they had on their persons whilst coming out of that temple before being given the seven vials?

 

And the only answer possible, and in context, can only be that they are in possession of seven trumpets.

 

So trumpet in one hand....vial in the other.

 

But are the trumpets plagues?

 

(Briefly...) In Rev 9:20, in the "trumpet section" and as a consequence of the trumps, we find the descriptive "plagues".... 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues.....

 

So by that admission, we can be sure that the effects of the seven trumpets are indeed described by scripture, as we just saw, (so no personal interpretation needed), as.......plagues!

 

Briefly, and in summary, this is what I was able to put together to complete the picture for this scenario to confirm that the vials and the trumps are indeed the same event.... all based on the seven angels already being given and still in possession of seven plagues...only to be given additional "items" and all before the first plagues are even initiated!

 

That tells me I am permitted to then do this: (since they are a related event and answers the question for itself)...

 

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

Rev 8:2 And i saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angels hand.

 

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

 

Rev 15:5 And after that i looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, til the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

 

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

 

Peace.

Nice trick, slipping verses from chapter 15 right in the list of verses from chapter 8, AS IF THEY WERE MEANT TO BE PUT TOGETHER.

 

However, John did not put them together. Did you notice how John wrote if it was the same angel he had seen before? Rev. 17:1 John wrote "Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me,"  And again in 21:9; "Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me,"  John does not say that with any of the trumpet angels. We could guess then that the vial angels are different than the trumpet angels.

 

What happens when one of the plague and vial angels pours out his vial? That is the plague associated with the vial. What event actually happens is the plague, and the vial shows that the plague is coming from God's wrath.

 

THERE IS NO NEED to  rearrange the book! Here is my Axiom on Revelation:

 

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

 

So the moment I saw you mixing up John's chronology I suspected error.

 

Picture in your mind a scroll rolled up and sealed with seven seals - so it could not be unrolled. I suspect it was TWO rolls, with the seals between the rolls to prevent them from being rolled in either direction. The seals are opened one by one. The scroll CANNOT be unrolled to reveal what is inside until all 7 seals are opened.

 

Once the 7th seal is finally opened, the scroll can be unrolled. The very first thing to read is the first trumpet judgment. As it is unrolled further, the second trumpet judgment. AS the book of revelation unfolds, chapter by chapter, it is the scroll being unrolled and read. In other words, it would be impossible for the 6th seal event to be parallel or at the same time as the 7th trumpet event - which would at that time be HIDDEN inside the unrolled scroll.

 

In other words, something read in a given chapter, say chapter 11, will ALWAYS be after the events of the previous chapter. We are not allowed to mix them up or rearrange them. Anyway, you desire to rearrange to fit your theory. Why not form your theory from what is written and in the order it is written? Wouldn't that make more sense?

 

if we study, we will see that the events of the vials are DIFFERENT than the events of the trumpets, and cannot be talking of the same events.

 

LAMAD

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