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Which day is the Sabbath and is it still valid today?


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I do have a few comments off the top of my head related to the 2nd part of your statement where you said (I paraphrase) … it is the only one of the ten commandment that was exclusive to Israel, which you follow up with: “when you study out everything that the Bible says about the Sabbath

Relative to your unsubstantiated conjecture that the commandment was only made for Israel.

It's not an unsubstantiated conjecture.  I have repeatedly asked you to provide ONE commandment made to Gentiles, Christan or not, obligating them to keep the Sabbath day.   So far you have been unable to provide one such commandment.   Your inability to provide such a commandment proves that my views isn't conjectural.  Why can't you muster up the courage to admit that you really can't support any notion that the Sabbath is commanded to the Church?

Well we have ten commandments, of which the Sabbath is one, on this we are agreed. So which of the ten commandments should the church abide by and what is the Scriptural evidence of this. As good Christians are we now free to murder, steal, commit adultery as ISIS claims their religion allows. Is that what Jesus really said, don't worry about keeping those commandments? Or did He say this. 

Matthew 5:17-19

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Notice Jesus did not say those who break the commandments whill be called least but rather those who break and teach these commandments will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

We do need to consider the fact that the Lord stated that He “in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it”

As far as I’m aware the Jews alone are not exclusive to the benefits of God’s creation nor is the creation of man, for whom God made the Sabbath. So certainly your conjecture really doesn’t have much context or merit given the commandment itself.

This is just more sloppy exegesis.  The Sabbath is a memorial of creation.  It establishes God as the creator of the universe.  But it is quite a leap to claim that this is evidence that Gentiles are expected to keep the Sabbath.   You still haven't got a commandment given to ONE Gentile anywhere in the Bible, making the Sabbath compulsory for him.

Okay.... well since you consider your opinions to be the pinnacle of Biblical exegesis may I remind you that you have given us none here, my friend. Seeing as how you have already claimed the honoring of the Sabbath was integral to the 10 commandments but they weren't for Gentiles then I suppose the Gentiles are excluded from not honoring their Father and Mother, murdering, stealing, or committing adultery either. Sounds like a great recipe for hedonism. Instead of always being the critic please provide support for your arguments. I think we'd all be better served. So my followup question here is:

What commandments of the ten were the Gentiles supposed to keep and, if you agree they were both for the Jew and Gentile, specifically what Scriptural evidence can you give that the Sabbath is to be excluded?

Thank you, Pat[

As far as “the Sabbath being made for man”, maybe Jesus should have further qualified that and said “Israeli

men”, eh? I think not. God created the 7th day for man and since He made us in His image He rested His works in us that we might care for His creation, which made the 6th day “very good”. The Sabbath, in its essence, is therefore for man; who is supposed to reflect the glory of God, and emulate Him. God created everything and gave dominion over all His works to man in six days and rested His governance and supervisional caring into man. We therefore were supposed to continue working and caring for His world as good stewards but remember the day of rest that we should set a day aside for our Creator and Lord. To me the emulation of God is common to man not to Israel, although as Jesus said,” salvation is of the Jews”, for it was given to them first and was by the bloodline of David.[

The problem is that we have no record of man ever being commanded to keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath day as a day of rest for mankind doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible until we get to the Mosaic Covenant. And then the ONLY people God told to keep the Sabbath are the Children of Israel. You still cannot provide ONE Scripture to say otherwise.

You keep making the same claims, but you don't have one Scripture obligating a nonJew to Sabbath observance. Still waiting on that verse from you, or an admittance that no such verse exists.

Nice try but you did not answer the question Shiloh.

When Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man did He only mean Jewish men as you explicitly stated to us?

How do you rectify the verse? 

Can you actually demonstrate from the Bible to us, the inquisitive, that the 4th commandment “was ONLY given to Israel”, which you qualify without support?

I already have.  I have posted  ALL of the commandments given by God to those whom He expected.  But since you don't read what I have said in the past, here they are again:  The Sabbath, as a commandment is only given to Israel, in Exodus 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:3; Deut. 5:12-15. 

 

Those are all of the commandments in the Bible regarding Sabbath day observance.   Show me one place in the Bible where Gentiles are given a similar commandment.

But where oh where is the exegesis on those verses Shiloh that diligently show they are meaningless for Gentiles? Just putting down chapter and verse is not exegesis. Didn't God say He would write the law on our hearts or was that just meant for Jews as well? I have shown you how they are related to Gentiles as well as Jews but you have not answered me nor exegeted the verses I gave you.

All kidding aside I am interested, as I’m sure others are, in your exegesis but so sorry if we don’t just take your word for it Shiloh, as this is not how debate works.

I never asked you to take my word for it.  I asked you to support your claim about compulsory Gentile observance and you can't provide it, but expect me to take your word for it that they are required to keep it.   You are the one lacking any real biblical support and relying sloppy exegesis.

No comment on your comment above, since it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand my friend.

Every one is entitled to their opinion but not everyone is entitled to a response.

In Christ, Pat

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Well we have ten commandments, of which the Sabbath is one, on this we are agreed. So which of the ten commandments should the church abide by and what is the Scriptural evidence of this. As good Christians are we now free to murder, steal, commit adultery as ISIS claims their religion allows. Is that what Jesus really said, don't worry about keeping those commandments? Or did He say this.

 

That is a strawman argument.  When we look at the whole of what God said about the Sabbath, it is clear that the Sabbath was only given to Israel under the Mosaic Covenant.  There is no commandment to keep the Sabbath given to the Church in the NT.  It is the only one of the ten commandments not repeated in the New Testament.

 

Okay.... well since you consider your opinions to be the pinnacle of Biblical exegesis may I remind you that you have given us none here, my friend. Seeing as how you have already claimed the honoring of the Sabbath was integral to the 10 commandments but they weren't for Gentiles then I suppose the Gentiles are excluded from not honoring their Father and Mother, murdering, stealing, or committing adultery either. Sounds like a great recipe for hedonism. Instead of always being the critic please provide support for your arguments. I think we'd all be better served. So my followup question here is:

What commandments of the ten were the Gentiles supposed to keep and, if you agree they were both for the Jew and Gentile, specifically what Scriptural evidence can you give that the Sabbath is to be excluded?

Thank you, Pat

 

Again, another strawman as I have said nothing about not honoring one's parents.

 

Gentile believers are not commanded to keep the Sabbath in the first place, so I don't have to come up with an itemized list of what they do and do not need to do.  We live in the New Testament economy and that does not include the Sabbath day observance as a compulsory observance.

 

Nice try but you did not answer the question Shiloh.

When Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man did He only mean Jewish men as you explicitly stated to us?

How do you rectify the verse?

 

 

The Sabbath day observance was for Israel only.  An expanded, biblical view of the Sabbath which includes the reality that Jesus is our Sabbath in the New Testament economy is the only way one can expand the Sabbath to apply to all people, Jewish or Gentile.  But the Sabbath day observance under the Old Testament economy (Jesus minisistered under that economy) only includes Israelites as obligated to the Sabbath day observance.

 

Where is the exegesis on those verses Shiloh that show they are meaningless for Gentiles?

 

I didn't say they were meaningless.  I don't need to provide any exegesis for what I didn't say.

 

No comment on your comment since it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand my friend and every one is entitled to their opinion but not everyone is entitled to a response.

 

Interpretation:   "I can't provide Shiloh with a verse that actually says what I am saying, so I will hide behind the weak excuse that he is not entitled to a response in order to hide this glaring weakness in my argument, and irrationally pretend my inability to support my argument is irrelevant to the argument itself."

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Well we have ten commandments, of which the Sabbath is one, on this we are agreed. So which of the ten commandments should the church abide by and what is the Scriptural evidence of this. As good Christians are we now free to murder, steal, commit adultery as ISIS claims their religion allows. Is that what Jesus really said, don't worry about keeping those commandments? Or did He say this.

That is a strawman argument. When we look at the whole of what God said about the Sabbath, it is clear that the Sabbath was only given to Israel under the Mosaic Covenant. There is no commandment to keep the Sabbath given to the Church in the NT. It is the only one of the ten commandments not repeated in the New Testament.

Okay.... well since you consider your opinions to be the pinnacle of Biblical exegesis may I remind you that you have given us none here, my friend. Seeing as how you have already claimed the honoring of the Sabbath was integral to the 10 commandments but they weren't for Gentiles then I suppose the Gentiles are excluded from not honoring their Father and Mother, murdering, stealing, or committing adultery either. Sounds like a great recipe for hedonism. Instead of always being the critic please provide support for your arguments. I think we'd all be better served. So my followup question here is:

What commandments of the ten were the Gentiles supposed to keep and, if you agree they were both for the Jew and Gentile, specifically what Scriptural evidence can you give that the Sabbath is to be excluded?

Thank you, Pat

Again, another strawman as I have said nothing about not honoring one's parents.

Gentile believers are not commanded to keep the Sabbath in the first place, so I don't have to come up with an itemized list of what they do and do not need to do. We live in the New Testament economy and that does not include the Sabbath day observance as a compulsory observance.

Nice try but you did not answer the question Shiloh.

When Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man did He only mean Jewish men as you explicitly stated to us?

How do you rectify the verse?

The Sabbath day observance was for Israel only. An expanded, biblical view of the Sabbath which includes the reality that Jesus is our Sabbath in the New Testament economy is the only way one can expand the Sabbath to apply to all people, Jewish or Gentile. But the Sabbath day observance under the Old Testament economy (Jesus minisistered under that economy) only includes Israelites as obligated to the Sabbath day observance.

Where is the exegesis on those verses Shiloh that show they are meaningless for Gentiles?

I didn't say they were meaningless. I don't need to provide any exegesis for what I didn't say.

No comment on your comment since it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand my friend and every one is entitled to their opinion but not everyone is entitled to a response.

Interpretation: "I can't provide Shiloh with a verse that actually says what I am saying, so I will hide behind the weak excuse that he is not entitled to a response in order to hide this glaring weakness in my argument, and irrationally pretend my inability to support my argument is irrelevant to the argument itself."

LoL. You need to read that a few times... I hope you aren't offended at my chuckle

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Well we have ten commandments, of which the Sabbath is one, on this we are agreed. So which of the ten commandments should the church abide by and what is the Scriptural evidence of this. As good Christians are we now free to murder, steal, commit adultery as ISIS claims their religion allows. Is that what Jesus really said, don't worry about keeping those commandments? Or did He say this.

0. That is a strawman argument. 

1. When we look at the whole of what God said about the Sabbath, it is clear that the Sabbath was only given to Israel under the Mosaic Covenant. 

2. There is no commandment to keep the Sabbath given to the Church in the NT.  It is the only one of the ten commandments not repeated in the New Testament.

With regard to your 2 arguments

1. No, it is not clear, else we would not be having this debate. I don't believe you shown anyone that it clear and that because you have not exegeted a single verse. Just throwing out a couple of non expounded verses and persona; criticisms certainly does not equal sound Biblical exegesis brother.

2. Not in the New Testament? I'm baffled as to why you think so.

Was not Jesus advocating that doing good works, and no one is good except for God so necessarily good works come from God, on the Sabbath were in keeping with the Law?

Mark 3:4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent.

Why do we have both Jewish and Gentile believers going into synagogues on the Sabbath?

Act 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

We also know from the NT that Gentiles as well as Jews were keeping the Sabbath in the apostolic age

Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Your logical verification method by exclusion are flawed anyway? Jesus did not mention anything about homosexuality being sin. Does that mean it is not? Also neither Jesus nor the apostles mentioned anything about abortion. Does that mean that is okay too? Jesus also didn't speak of all the commandments in the sermon on the mount either. Nor did He mention all the commandments to the rich young ruler. Does that disregard the rest of them? Talk about a straw-man argument your presumption due to exclusivity is totally irrelevant even if it were true.

But beyond that, however, perhaps you can find these commandments explicitly mentioned in the New Testament

Exodus 20:3 (NKJV) — “You shall have no other gods before Me.

Exodus 20:16 (NKJV) — “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

In Christ, Pat

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No, it's a Christian teaching.   But you deny the deity of Jesus, so you are outside of the authentic New Testament faith, anyway.

 

Check the Catechism Simply Explained by Canon Cafferata, the official document of the RCC, also available on the internet, to compare my statement.

 

My point is that it wasn't invented by the Catholics.   The Bible demonstrates the Trinity and it declares the deity of Jesus.  The deity of Jesus is an essential biblical teaching that cannot be compromised.

 

You are also disregarding the Biblical fact that Jesus is sitting on God's right hand side as Man.

 

Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.  Jesus is not sitting on God's right hand.  God is an omnipresent spirit.  He doesn't have a "right hand."   God has no body or form.  To say that He is sitting on God's right hand is a figure of speech.  The "right hand" is a symbol of authority.  It is simply a way of saying that Jesus has divine authority and only God has divine authority.   You are the one void of biblical fact.

 

The Bible teaches us that Jesus Christ is sitting on God's right hand side and now you say God has no hand. Do you want to tell me that the Bible is incorrect? If right hand means authority, what does the left hand mean? I would love to hear your explanation seeing that you seem to know the Bible better than everybody else.

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Pat, there is no good work/bad work in the 4th commandment......   it says no work at all......  period.

 

 

Ex 20:8-11

8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
NASB

 

 

John 5:15-18
15 The man went away, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well. 16 And for this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working ."  18 For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
NASB

 

Jesus admitted working on the Sabbath.......   made no distinction between good work, bad work, selfish work or works out of love......     he just said that he was working......   not only that but that the Father has been working up until Jesus came also.

 

Jesus told them that he was Lord of the Sabbath, and as Shiloh has been trying to inform you, nowhere did Jesus tell us that we had to observe the Sabbath as Gentiles...    If he did do so, it would be of great help to us all if you would show us where it is in the New Testament..... 

 

Jesus gave us two main commandments which is to love God and love our Neighbors....

If we are to have him be our Lord, we will have to follow the things he told us, not the requirements of the old covenant.

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No, it's a Christian teaching.   But you deny the deity of Jesus, so you are outside of the authentic New Testament faith, anyway.

 

Check the Catechism Simply Explained by Canon Cafferata, the official document of the RCC, also available on the internet, to compare my statement.

 

My point is that it wasn't invented by the Catholics.   The Bible demonstrates the Trinity and it declares the deity of Jesus.  The deity of Jesus is an essential biblical teaching that cannot be compromised.

 

You are also disregarding the Biblical fact that Jesus is sitting on God's right hand side as Man.

 

Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.  Jesus is not sitting on God's right hand.  God is an omnipresent spirit.  He doesn't have a "right hand."   God has no body or form.  To say that He is sitting on God's right hand is a figure of speech.  The "right hand" is a symbol of authority.  It is simply a way of saying that Jesus has divine authority and only God has divine authority.   You are the one void of biblical fact.

 

The Bible teaches us that Jesus Christ is sitting on God's right hand side and now you say God has no hand. Do you want to tell me that the Bible is incorrect? If right hand means authority, what does the left hand mean? I would love to hear your explanation seeing that you seem to know the Bible better than everybody else.

 

The Bible simply uses "right hand" in connection with God as a figure of speech.  Everyone knows that. The Bible isn't wrong; you simply don't study it correctly.

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Blessings & Greetings.....

    Well,Mac's Son....God Bless you thisday and you said you were looking for others to "weigh in ",.....Okay,but since I really do not like long long winded posts & simply repeating what others have said I will just say simply.....after reading the many comments here I can only say that there really is nothing for me to add to what Shiloh has shared,I can say I do not disagree w4ith anything he has said..................

     Jesus is the fulfillment of the law,not come to do away with it & He is the Sabbath,it was not made for Him.........in studying the OT,the observance of the Sabbath(Fri-Sat)was for the Jew,,,,,not the Christian.....God Bless other one ,he said it beautifully

 

Jesus admitted working on the Sabbath.......   made no distinction between good work, bad work, selfish work or works out of love......     he just said that he was working......   not only that but that the Father has been working up until Jesus came also.

 

Jesus told them that he was Lord of the Sabbath, and as Shiloh has been trying to inform you, nowhere did Jesus tell us that we had to observe the Sabbath as Gentiles...    If he did do so, it would be of great help to us all if you would show us where it is in the New Testament.....

 

Jesus gave us two main commandments which is to love God and love our Neighbors....

If we are to have him be our Lord, we will have to follow the things he told us, not the requirements of the old covenant.

                     And for sweet Cletus,I understand what you are saying completely,I have no idea why someone wouldn't want that corporate Praise & Worship just one day a week ......all I can say is 'to each his own"                                       With love-in Christ,Kwik

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With regard to your 2 arguments

1. No, it is not clear, else we would not be having this debate. I don't believe you shown anyone that it clear and that because you have not exegeted a single verse. Just throwing out a couple of non expounded verses and persona; criticisms certainly does not equal sound Biblical exegesis brother.

 

When I say that the Sabbath is given only to Israel, that is not something that needs to be exegeted.   I posted to you ALL of the commandments given in the Bible and ALL of them were given to Israel, ONLY.   That is simple fact.  There is nothing to exegete.   Exegesis is used to lead out the meaning of a text.  But when one examines the Scriptures I gave, they all come from the Old Testament and every single time, the intended audience was Israel.  You need to come to grips with that reality.

 

2. Not in the New Testament? I'm baffled as to why you think so.

Was not Jesus advocating that doing good works, and no one is good except for God so necessarily good works come from God, on the Sabbath were in keeping with the Law?

 

But again, none of that carries any kind of commandment to keep the Sabbath, only a debate about what is allowable on the Sabbath and again, the audience was Jews not Gentiles.  There is NOT one commandment to Gentiles to keep the Sabbath in the New Testament and so far you are impotent to prove me wrong.

 

Why do we have both Jewish and Gentile believers going into synagogues on the Sabbath?

Act 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

We also know from the NT that Gentiles as well as Jews were keeping the Sabbath in the apostolic age

Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

 

So what??  Again, that is not the evidence you need to make your case that Gentiles are obligated to keep the Sabbath.   Just because the Gentiles were coming to the synagogues on the Sabbath to hear the word preached doesn't mean they were honoring the Sabbath in terms of actual biblical prescription of Sabbath observance.  Coming to the synagogue doesn't equal sabbath observance.

 

Your logical verification method by exclusion are flawed anyway? Jesus did not mention anything about homosexuality being sin. Does that mean it is not?

 

But homosexuality IS taught against in the New Testament, even if Jesus didn't mention it.  It is condemned in by Paul (Rom. 1:26-28; I Cor. 6:9)   So that is an invalid argument.

 

Also neither Jesus nor the apostles mentioned anything about abortion. Does that mean that is okay too? Jesus also didn't speak of all the commandments in the sermon on the mount either. Nor did He mention all the commandments to the rich young ruler. Does that disregard the rest of them? Talk about a straw-man argument your presumption due to exclusivity is totally irrelevant even if it were true.

 

That is not an example of a "strawman" argument.  But anyway, the Bible doesn't say anything about abortion, child molestation, spousal abuse, etc.  The Bible doesn't mention every sin that could possibly be committed.  What it does is provide us with a behavioral paradigm by which we can evaluate those things not directly mentioned in the Scriptures.  We can know from the light we have been given in Scripture that abortion and child molestation are sinful because of what the Bible says about the sanctity of life and God's plan for human sexuality.

 

But that argument doesn't apply to the Sabbath.  The Sabbath is not in the category of a moral/ethical/behavioral commandment.  The moral/ethical/behavioral commandments are obviously not limited to one group of people, but apply universally to all human beings.

 

But beyond that, however, perhaps you can find these commandments explicitly mentioned in the New Testament

Exodus 20:3 (NKJV) — “You shall have no other gods before Me.

Exodus 20:16 (NKJV) — “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

It doesn't quote those two verses, but the theology of both of those verses are contained in the NT.   The NT does promote honesty and it does promote the idea that we are to worship God and God alone.   So again, you are really barking up the wrong tree here.

 

The Sabbath theology in terms of its foreshadowing of Jesus is clearly laid out in the NT and that is only relationship we have with the Sabbath in the NT economy.  It is not presented to the Church as a commandment, but as having it fullest expression in the Person of Jesus Christ. 

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There are many arguments about which day is the Sabbath day and whether it is still valid or not today. Any opinions? I use the Bible KJV and only texts from the Bible must be provided please to prove your point.

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening.   But Jesus is the true Sabbath.   When I got saved, I entered into His rest.  I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus.
So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right?
Jesus is also God. He also was our Creator, with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are one God.

Jesus rested from His work when He said "it is finished and died on the cross. He had obeyed our Father perfectly and He had kept all the commandments perfectly on our behalf.. He had paid for our sin on the cross and had put His righteousness on our account sheet. He had purchased us back from Satan with His blood. He also ratified the new covenant with His blood. The new covenant is all about what Jesus did for us, and not about anything we can do. By grace you have saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a GIFT of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 When we believe in Christ we trust Him and rely on Him.

When we turn from our sinful life to God for forgiveness, He gives us His own Spirit and His own life to live in us. We are born again.

He gives us new desires to want to live a life that brings Him praise. We are adopted into His family. No one has to keep the commandments to be saved. We want to keep them because we are already saved. God demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Most Christians celebrate resurrection Sunday, First Fruits in the Jewish calandar and Easter Sunday in ours, and make Sunday our day of worship and rest for that reason. But there is nothing wrong in keeping Saturday. Paul spoke frequently of speaking to the Jews on Saturday mornings and speaking to the gentiles saturday afternoon and evening after sunset till midnight. Saturday evening was considered the first day to the Jews. He spoke of taking up an offering for the poor on the first day of the week when they were gathered together.

I hope this helps to clear up your confusion.

Willa

I Peter 3:18 For Christ suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, That He might bring us to God, being PUT TO DEATH IN THE FLESH BUT MADE ALIVE IN THE SPIRIT, BY WHOM HE WENT AND PREACHED TO THE SPIRITS IN PRISON, WHO FORMERLY WERE DISOBEDIENT----

Jesus Christ died according to His flesh, His human nature and was buried. But after commiting his Spirit into Father God's hands while on the cross, he was made alive in the Spirit and went to preach to the dead in prison --.

Eph. 4:8-10 When He ascended on high He LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, and gave gifts to men. (Now this: He ascended---what does it mean but that He FIRST DESCENDED INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all heavens, that He might fill all things.

Rom. 9:5 of whom are the fathers and FROM WHOM ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, CHRIST CAME, WHO IS OVER ALL, THE ETERNALY BLESSED GOD. AMEN

Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

God the Word dwelt in the human body of Jesus. He was 100% God in 100% man. HIS BODY DID SUFFER AND DIE. He was MADE ALIVE IN THE SPIRIT and preached to the dead. It is said that He preached the triumph of the Messiah over death and the disarming of satan's strongest weapon. We need no longer fear death, knowing that we, our souls, shall not die but shall always be with Him.

1 Cor. 15:54b-56 Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death where is your sting?

O Hades where is your victory?

The sting of death is sin, and THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW. But thanks be to God, Who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

Blessings,

Willa

 

Hi Willa, thanks for your posting.

I just want to discuss one thing here right now and that is Rom 9:5

Your quote is one of the translations.

Rom. 9:5 of whom are the fathers and FROM WHOM ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, CHRIST CAME, WHO IS OVER ALL, THE ETERNALY BLESSED GOD. AMEN

Then there is Rom 9:5 'to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all the blessed for ever. Amen." Nestle-Aland Greek-English New Testament.

Rom 9:5 " Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. KJV

Rom 9:5 " Whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ according to flesh. He being God over all, blessed forever. Amen. The Interlinear Bible. Hebrew Greek English

We can see from the translations above that there are four variations for four texts. Analysing each one of them you will find it diffiult to come to the same concusion.

There is also a possible fifth translation namely,

Rom. 9:5 of whom are the fathers and FROM WHOM ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, CHRIST CAME, WHO IS OVER ALL, BLESSED BY THE ETERNALY GOD. AMEN

 

If the fifth translation is correct, then it will put a whole different perspective on the whole issue. Even the Nestle-Aland quote places a total different meaning to the whole concept.

That is why I tend to look at the whole Bible to see what makes sense and gells with the whole teaching and not just using one text to prove my point. The translators of the Bible could have made errors in their translations, or placed accents on different issues, or added their own thoughts and that has definitely happened with the Trinity concept, as no two translators would translate the same scripture the same. There will be two different versions of each text between the two translators. That is why we have to accept that there are errors in the Bible and we need to search through all the texts relating to a subject and pray about it to find the truth.

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