Fez Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Show me the scripture that says Hades is the abode of those awaiting judgement. To understand scripture is to understand Greek. The only time Hades is used as a place of torment is in the parable of Luke 16:19-31. But that parable cannot be taken literal, rather only figuratively. Greek dictionary.. https://www.teknia.com/search/node/Hades But you said... Hades is the grave, the abode of the dead without consciousness. This is where all people believers and nonbelievers go after death to await eternal judgment. Please show me the scripture that confirms this statement. As to your statement about understanding scripture is to understand Greek? (and Hebrew, and Aramaic). And sometimes just plain English...... Nope. Because then 99% of believers have no idea of scripture! To use the Greek to refine knowledge yes! To understand scripture? Faith and the Holy Spirit. We tend to complicate things at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2014 Please show me the scripture that confirms this statement. As to your statement about understanding scripture is to understand Greek? (and Hebrew, and Aramaic). And sometimes just plain English...... Nope. Because then 99% of believers have no idea of scripture! To use the Greek to refine knowledge yes! To understand scripture? Faith and the Holy Spirit. We tend to complicate things at times. You're gonna have to search the scriptures on your own my friend, the word Hades is everywhere. The proof is in the Greek context. Well yes, you do need faith and the holy spirit also, but the original text of the Bible was written in Hebrew, and yes Aramaic and also Greek. This is also the work of the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 Please show me the scripture that confirms this statement. As to your statement about understanding scripture is to understand Greek? (and Hebrew, and Aramaic). And sometimes just plain English...... Nope. Because then 99% of believers have no idea of scripture! To use the Greek to refine knowledge yes! To understand scripture? Faith and the Holy Spirit. We tend to complicate things at times. You're gonna have to search the scriptures on your own my friend,the word Hades is everywhere.The proof is in the Greek context.Well yes, you do need faith and the holy spirit also,but the original text of the Bible was written in Hebrew, and yes Aramaic and also Greek.This is also the work of the Holy Spirit.In a discussion, when someone makes a statement and is asked for proof, the onus is for the one making the statement to provide proof, not the reader to seek for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 In a discussion, when someone makes a statement and is asked for proof, the onus is for the one making the statement to provide proof, not the reader to seek for themselves. I already did. I told him the proof is in the Greek definition of Hades. The Greek definition of Hades is the grave. What other proof do you need. https://www.teknia.com/search/node/Hades%20type%3Alexicon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 In a discussion, when someone makes a statement and is asked for proof, the onus is for the one making the statement to provide proof, not the reader to seek for themselves. I already did.I told him the proof is in the Greek definition of Hades.The Greek definition of Hades is the grave.What other proof do you need.https://www.teknia.com/search/node/Hades%20type%3AlexiconThe definition of Hades is not the answer to the question Fez asked. He asked for scripture to back the statement you made: "This is where all people believers and nonbelievers go after death to await eternal judgment." Where in scripture does it say that believers go to hades to await eternal judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 The definition of Hades is not the answer to the question Fez asked. He asked for scripture to back the statement you made: "This is where all people believers and nonbelievers go after death to await eternal judgment." Where in scripture does it say that believers go to hades to await eternal judgment. Better yet, prove through scripture that Hades does not mean the grave. There is no reason to search all through scripture where it mentions hell. It's not about scripture, it's about defining words and what they mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Does Purgatory exists or not? So many people say it does but where in the Bible can I find the proof of its existance? I use the KJV Bible and texts must please be supplied to prove your point There are no Scriptures to provide because purgatory doesn't exist. There is your answer. No such thing as Purgatory. Purgatory is a make believe place so that people can work out their own sins so they can go to heaven. We as believers know that the finished work on the cross is all we need. That is why Jesus cried "It is finished" Because there was nothing more to do, He had done it all, and that finished work still works today! Praise God!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 The definition of Hades is not the answer to the question Fez asked. He asked for scripture to back the statement you made: "This is where all people believers and nonbelievers go after death to await eternal judgment." Where in scripture does it say that believers go to hades to await eternal judgment. Better yet, prove through scripture that Hades does not mean the grave. There is no reason to search all through scripture where it mentions hell. It's not about scripture, it's about defining words and what they mean. Yes, there is every reason in life itself to gain an understanding from scripture. Hades is the grave for the lost, and the lost only. In order to understand the true meaning of scripture is to understand how each word is used in context, so let's go beyond the simplicity of the definition you found online. Hades G86 It corresponds to Sheol in the OT which occurs 59 times. In the NT, Hades occurs only 10 times. It is found nowhere in John's gospel, the epistles of Paul, the Epistle to the Hebrews, or the General Epistles. Three of the occurrences are on Christ's lips (Matt. 11:23 [with Luke 10:15]; 16:18; Luke 16:23). In two of these, the words are obviously used in a figurative sense: in the case of Capernaum to express an absolute overthrow, a humiliation as deep as the former loftiness and pride had been great; in the case of the Church, to express a security which shall be proof against death and destruction. The third occurrence, in the story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), is of a different kind and has even been taken to put our Lord's confirmation on the Jewish idea of two compartments in Hades, distinct from and yet near one another. In Acts 2:27, 31, the word Hades occurs in a quotation from Psalms 16:10 in an application of OT faith in the advent of Christ, His death, and His resurrection. Therefore, it has again the meaning of the world of the departed onto which Christ passed like other men, but only to transform its nature from a place accommodating both believers and unbelievers to one for unbelievers (Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13,14). In all the NT passages except Matthew 11:23; Luke 10:15, Hades is associated with death. It expresses the general concept of the invisible would or abode into which the spirits of men are ushered immediately after death. The prevalent idea connected with it in its association with death are those of privation, detention, and just recompense. The thought of the relative reward of good is subordinate, if the expressed at all, to the retribution of evil and to the penal character pertaining to Hades as the minister of death. In none of the passages in which the word itself occurs have we any disclosures or even hints of purgatorial fires, purifying process, or extended operations of grace. The state of human beings in Hades is immediate and irreversible after death, although it does not constitute the eternal state, for Hades itself later becomes the exclusive place for unbelievers. It is cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14), while the reign of the of the just becomes paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7) which is ultimately absorbed into the final heaven (Revelation 21:1). Our Lord conclusively teaches in the story of the rich man and Lazarus that there is no possibility of repentance after death. It is in this light that 1 Peter 3:18-20 should be viewed (cf. phulake [5438], prison). Unfortunately, both the OT and NT words have been translated in the KJV as "hell" (Psalms 16:10) or the "grave" (Genesis 37:35) or the "pit" (Numbers 16:30, 33). Hades never denotes the physical grave nor is it the permanent region of the lost. It is the intermediate state between death and the ultimate hell, Gehenna (Geenna [1067]). Christ declares that He has the keys to Hades (Revelation 1:18). In Revelation 6:8 it is personified with the meaning of the temporary destiny of the doomed; it is to give up those who are in it (Revelation 20:13), and is to be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14). The Complete Word Study Dictionary - New Testament edited by Spiros Zodhiates Th.D. As you can see, Hades is not for the saved, but the lost only. Before Christ died, those who believed in God were in "Abraham's Bosom" and the lost in "Hades". The two cannot be combined, nor can one pass from on to the other. Luke 16:19-26 There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 Yes, there is every reason in life itself to gain an understanding from scripture. Luke 16:19-31 parable is a fictional story that uses real places to describe a person's relationship with God. It is not proof of the afterlife between death and the first resurrection. London Bridge is broken down, Broken down, broken down. London Bridge is broken down, My fair lady. Build it up with wood and clay, Wood and clay, wood and clay, Build it up with wood and clay, My fair lady. Wood and clay will wash away, Wash away, wash away, Wood and clay will wash away, My fair lady. Build it up with bricks and mortar, Bricks and mortar, bricks and mortar, Build it up with bricks and mortar, My fair lady. Bricks and mortar will not stay, Will not stay, will not stay, Bricks and mortar will not stay, My fair lady. Build it up with iron and steel, Iron and steel, iron and steel, Build it up with iron and steel, My fair lady. Iron and steel will bend and bow, Bend and bow, bend and bow, Iron and steel will bend and bow, My fair lady. Build it up with silver and gold, Silver and gold, silver and gold, Build it up with silver and gold, My fair lady. Silver and gold will be stolen away, Stolen away, stolen away, Silver and gold will be stolen away, My fair lady. Set a man to watch all night, Watch all night, watch all night, Set a man to watch all night, My fair lady. Suppose the man should fall asleep, Fall asleep, fall asleep, Suppose the man should fall asleep? My fair lady. Give him a pipe to smoke all night, Smoke all night, smoke all night, Give him a pipe to smoke all night, My fair lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 Yes, there is every reason in life itself to gain an understanding from scripture. Luke 16:19-31 parable is a fictional story that uses real places to describe a person's relationship with God. It is not proof of the afterlife between death and the first resurrection. Why am I not surprised in your reply? I see you have no serious reply at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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