Matthew 13 and the 7 kingdom parables

[Persuaded]

Duplicate. See below...

Edited September 4, 2014 by Persuaded

[Persuaded]

You have given us much to think about, perhaps too much at one time..

The first thing I noticed is that when Jesus is speaking about the kingdom of Heaven, He is speaking about just that.

The mustard seed denotes the Kingdom of Heaven, God's reign, not the visible church. It starts with one Man and the apostles, and grows by the power of the Holy Spirit into a mighty organism. The invisible body of Christ which will enter into heaven will be pure and without sin.

The treasure is in earthen vessels. God redeemed mankind by hiding the life of Christ in each one of us. He must buy the whole field of clay, or our earthen bodies, to obtain the treasure, the life of Christ, the Holy Spirit within us. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and the body of Christ. God is the treasure in us. This is speaking of the redemption of the Jews.

The pearl is speaking of the redemption of the gentiles. Together we comprise the Kingdom of Heaven: Both unkosher, unclean gentiles that have been declaired clean by God, and the Hebrew people who have received this treasure, are the Kingdom of Heaven..

Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like leaven. You are saying that God's rightous pure Kingdom is like sin. I see it as a Kingdom that grows within us till it has all of us. Jesus is using leaven in a good way here. He is only speaking of the manner of growth in this case. But I do find your parallels of the 3 measures very interesting.

Now I have no Idea what the prevalant interpretation is. I tend to listen to what the Holy Spirit is telling me. Mens thoughts usually don't stick to me but I cling to that which is good. But I do know how to read a sentence. Jesus is speaking of the Kingdom of heaven in these parables. The Kingdom is like buried treasure, leaven, and a valuable pearl. He is discribing His invisible Kingdom which is not of the world using concrete things that earthly minds without the Holy Spirit can relate to.

You must allow discussion of your interpretation or it is considered teaching and you not allowed to do that. No scripture is of private interpretation. Neither of our interpretations may be correct. But we respect the right of all to introduce their thoughts on the matter whether or not they agree with either of ours.

Blessings,

Willa

( Pedantic point: The leaven parable doesn't just say that the kingdom is like leaven, full stop. It's like leaven which a woman hid in three measures of meal. So it isn't correct to say that this is saying that the kingdom is like sin, but it is like the whole parable- a bunch of fine flour contaminated by the introduction of false doctrine.)

 

It's always dangerous to pull the spirit card, and we see it done here a lot. It becomes an unassailable proof, but without an externally verifiable source. I don't discount how the Spirit may have lead you, but rather than trust any internet poster's spirit, I will do my best to continue to search the scriptures (Acts 17:11) and prove all things (1 Thes 5:21).

 

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The kingdom of heaven is also like tares among the wheat. Within each parable that Jesus explained there is a bad element among the good; similarly with the dragnet which by any interpretation is a mixture of good and bad. Suggesting that the aberrant mustard tree and leaven have negative meanings does fit with the context of the seven parables, it fits Jewish understanding of those idioms, it fits the feisty mood one would expect in Jesus following the rejection of ch12, and it fits observable church history.

Let's take the easier ones:

With the four soils, only one fourth is fruitful, but in diminishing yields:

"8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold."

Obviously the tares describe an enemy in the field sowing bad seed. Certainly not an all-perfect kingdom.

The treasure describes (in theological terms) immeasurable sacrifice to purchase the whole earth, because He knew a small part of it contained treasure. Same with the pearl. This is John 3:16 kind of stuff:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

None of these paint a rosy picture of the kingdom! The mustard and leaven are out of character and contrary to the other five, if taken in the traditional way.

(And the treasure and pearl are really bad theology if taken the traditional way. The field and the pearl were bought. There is nothing we can do to buy/earn anything in God's economy. We are the object of the transaction, a transaction which Christ completed.)

[Guest]

the holy spirit can only be there for you to listen to it

 

;by you removing all other spirits (yours/your views/thoughts/all untruths....)

 

then the truth will come to you and will understand the scriptures in truth,

 

in the way God want you to read them and understand them 

 

~

 

Self Help

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:23-28

 

Is The Rejection Of The Holy Ghost

 

But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. John 16:5-11 (ESV)

 

And Of The Christ He Speaks Of

 

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. John 16:12-15 (ESV)

 

~

 

You Sir Consistently Blaspheme God, The Holy Spirit

 

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. Romans 8:14 (ESV)

 

And Without Him One Remains Condemned

 

The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Romans 8:16 (ESV)

 

For One Won't Stand A Chance

 

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Galatians 5:16 (ESV)

 

To Know Jesus

 

But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written,

 

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,

nor the heart of man imagined,

what God has prepared for those who love him”—

 

these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:7-11 (ESV)

[Persuaded]

Rereading this thread, it seems I owe Marilyn and Willa an apology- I didn't mean to be dismissive of your posts, and in reacting to your posts as abstract ideas rather than as expressions by people I may have been too blunt.

 

I guess I see this chapter as being generally and overall traditionally misunderstood, so it doesn't seem useful (to me) to tease at the nuances if they are built on the flawed traditional overall view.

 

I've read a handful of commentaries on this chapter, and none that support the traditional view go to any length to support that view from scripture, nor attempt to defend the traditional view against other views. That bothers me, and I had hoped to make some others bothered by it too.