Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
bestrfcplayer

Haven't been here in a while...

Recommended Posts

 

 

We know that evolution is true. We have known this for over 150 years. Every year the evidence keeps piling on. Every single fossil that is discovered always shows up exactly in the correct strata. We know that evolution is true with the same amount of certainty that we know our sun is a star or that microorganisms can cause diseases.

I realize that the acceptance of this knowledge is deeply upsetting to some people with religious enthusiasms, most notably devout Muslims and Christians. But truth has been defined as that which doesn't go away if you stop believing in it.

 

Port

We know that evolution is a man-made, Satan inspired idea that is not true. Every day the evidence keeps presenting itself. We know that evolution is false with the same amount of certainty that we know that the sun is a star created in a snap by GOD and that microorganisms can cause diseases or cure them as GOD sees fit to reveal to us in the form of knowledge. I realize that the acceptance of this knowledge is deeply ingrained in the mind of those who do not believe the Truth as it is contained in Scripture, such as those who belong to the "New Age" church, but the TRUTH has been defined as that which doesn't go away if you stop believing in the inerrency of the Bible.

Evolution isn't an idea created by Satan, it explains how God created us. There is a mountain of evidence that supports evolution. Not trying to be mean, but I don't get why people won't explore the natural world with the brains that God gave us.

 

No, Evolution is not a creative theory.  Evolution doesn't answer the question about the origin of life.  Evolution is a theory about the development of life forms, essentially. 

 

I don't think you have any room to criticize people about how they view the world when you are unable to correctly frame the theory you are supporting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I just wanted to pop in and let people know that I am alive, and very well and have been ever more present in my spiritual journey. I'm now one of those people who while I do believe in God and Jesus, I don't really believe in the Bible, save for the Gospels.

So you believe in God but you don't believe He created heaven and earth, or that He created man?

I believe that He did, just not in the way the Bible says (I believe he created the Universe through the Big Bang, and us through evolution).

I just want to inject into this discussion that the idea of guided evolution mentioned here is esoteric and not shared by anyone active in the field of evolutionary biology.

I understand that it is tempting to create hybrid ideologies which on the one hand keep their roots in religious traditions while also embracing the knowledge  that the scientific  method has brought us, but at the very core of evolution by natural selection are random genetic mutations that may or may not prove adaptive to a group of organisms.

The evolved ability to digest dairy past infancy illustrates this well. 

Most people of European descent share the mutation that makes this possible while most Asian people do not simply because they are descendants of a group of humans in which this mutation did not occur.

 

Port

There doesn't have to be a vs between science and religion. Evolution is change over time, and random mutations doew t make evolution false.

I think that you may have misunderstood my comment.

So, to clarify; you mentioned that you think God used evolution to create homo sapiens and, presumably, all the other creatures that populate this planet. This would include Yersinia Pestis, the plague bacillus that killed 500 million people in the 20th century alone, fire ants and the ichneumon wasp, which has a reproductive cycle so capricious and revolting that it can make an avid horror movie devotee lose his appetite. 

This idea, that of an evolutionary process guided by a deity whose chief aim is to produce the wonder that is us, is not subscribed to by any respectable scientist active in the field.

The whole concept that these mutations are not random but are the (wholly) mysterious tinkering of an unseen hand goes against the very core of what is understood of the evolutionary process.

 

We know that evolution is true. We have known this for over 150 years. Every year the evidence keeps piling on. Every single fossil that is discovered always shows up exactly in the correct strata. We know that evolution is true with the same amount of certainty that we know our sun is a star or that microorganisms can cause diseases.

I realize that the acceptance of this knowledge is deeply upsetting to some people with religious enthusiasms, most notably devout Muslims and Christians. But truth has been defined as that which doesn't go away if you stop believing in it.

 

Even though it is tempting to merge conflicting ideas, it has to be said that this is not intellectually honest. One can not haves his religious cake and eat it too. You are more than welcome to ignore an ever rising mountain of scientific evidence and pretend to be more knowledgeable than the people who actually study this matter and made it their lives' work, or you can accept the fact of evolution as all educated, un-biased people do, but you can not do both.

 

 

Port

You... Do realize that I accept evolution to be true right? I just basically said I am a theistic evolutionist, while misunderstanding your comment too, I guess.

Also, I have also fully regained my faith in the Lord tonight, and had something similar to a salvation experience (still debating on if I'll be a Carholic, or move to a non-denominational church after I move out after college).

 

Yes, I understand you believe in theistic evolution.

No, theistic evolution is not supported by any reputable scientist.

I don't think there is any point in me trying to convey my thoughts on this matter for a third time, so I will resign myself to the fact that I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to share my thoughts.

 

I did find an error in my previous post. I stated erroneously that it was the plague bacillus that killed half a billion people in the 20th century. This is not correct. It was small pox that killed them. 

 

Port

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Port, you are saying that it is not possible to be a theistic evolutionist because of the emergence of pathogens and other nasty creatures in general? What bearing does this reality have for those making a teleological argument, i.e. Such as a creationist?

 

Hi Gray Wolf,

 

 

I hope you are doing well. I was hoping that the thread you started about depression would have stayed open for a bit longer as I am a fellow sufferer and perhaps we could have given each other some useful advise on how to cope. Perhaps we can do this in a separate thread.

 

Regarding the subject of evolution, I am a bit weary getting into this as torrents of vitriol, animus and anger tend to be unleashed when the topic comes up.

I no longer debate with people who flat-out deny evolution.

As I mentioned before, I have some sympathy for religious people who see evolution as threatening to their worldview, but if one is truly and adult one sometimes has to face uncomfortable truths. This happens to all of us if we live long enough and I could not bear to hear myself proclaim something which I know to be untrue merely because it would make me feel better.

So to people who do not accept evolution I merely suggest that they read a book about the evidence for evolution and then return to our discussion armed with the facts.

I've noticed that many people are unwilling to do this, which is analogous to me getting out of my aisle seat at 11000 feet to declare that I'll take over the control of the airplane from here because I know just as much, or more, about aviation as the pilot does.

If this is too abstruse, let me just say that I do not engage in conversation with people who refuse to educate themselves on a given subject.  

 

Regarding your question about theistic evolution.I am not saying that the  existence of, say, the plague bacillus renders it impossible, but I would say it renders it unlikely.

What loving God would create such little monsters?

 

 

Cheers,

 

Port 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Evolution isn't an idea created by Satan, it explains how God created us. There is a mountain of evidence that supports evolution. Not trying to be mean, but I don't get why people won't explore the natural world with the brains that God gave us.

 

The Bible explains how GOD created us. Evolution is not proven but is a scientific hypothesis that cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. There is no conclusive evidence of evolution. Even carbon dating is not an exact science. There are thousands of ancient manuscripts that have been discovered that testify to the authenticity of the OT and the creation. Not to be mean, but I don't get why people who claim to know GOD won't believe what HE has said about Himself and what He has and will do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Port, you are saying that it is not possible to be a theistic evolutionist because of the emergence of pathogens and other nasty creatures in general? What bearing does this reality have for those making a teleological argument, i.e. Such as a creationist?

Regarding your question about theistic evolution.I am not saying that the existence of, say, the plague bacillus renders it impossible, but I would say it renders it unlikely.

What loving God would create such little monsters?

Cheers,

Port

I reopened the thread on depression btw. As for The existence of pathogens and unpleasant creatures, many would argue that they are part of Adam's Curse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I just wanted to pop in and let people know that I am alive, and very well and have been ever more present in my spiritual journey. I'm now one of those people who while I do believe in God and Jesus, I don't really believe in the Bible, save for the Gospels.

Im glad you are here with us. Keep growing in God that is what I do. Learning more as I go along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I interject here and let's take the evolution vs creation as a seperate thread, as to not derail this current thread (correcting my mistake for getting a bit off subject).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I just wanted to pop in and let people know that I am alive, and very well and have been ever more present in my spiritual journey. I'm now one of those people who while I do believe in God and Jesus, I don't really believe in the Bible, save for the Gospels.

Welcome back, best.

Remember that the church didn't begin until Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples.. Then Peter, the coward who had denied Christ 3 times, was filled with such boldness that several thousands heard and were saved that day. He used phrases like repent, be saved from this perverse generation, be baptized in the name of Christ Jesus for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. He sounded much like John the Baptist. Read Matt. 3:4-12

How often in your church do you hear your pastor calling on people to repent? It means to turn away from wanting the sinful lifestyles of the world, the flesh and the devil, and to turn to Christ for salvation and forgiveness. Do you see people empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a life that glorifies God in your church.? Do they demonstrate a hunger for God's Word? Do they consider the Word of God to be more sacred than the church, the saints and the traditions? If not then I can understand why you are questioning your faith. It is much easier to believe when you are in a place where people hate sin but demonstrate God's love, and where there is reverence for God's Word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I interject here and let's take the evolution vs creation as a seperate thread, as to not derail this current thread (correcting my mistake for getting a bit off subject).

Sorry, it is my fault.

I should have known that this contentious subject would take over the thread.

 

My bad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×