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Pastor claims bible says guns are ok


ayin jade

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I already asked the question. But instead of addressing the passage you seemed to get defensive. So I'll ask again.

We respect authority (police, military) not because they deserve it but because that is honoring God. It is a respect of the position. Not of the person. I think you are confusing it with respecting individuals who serve in that position with respecting the position of someone who represent government authorities. Some serve well. Others do not.

Regardless, the Bible tells us to respect our governing authorities. To claim that all people who serve in such capacity are ungodly or follow worldly standards is uncharitable at best. A serious judgment of an entire group of people at worst. Some love God and follow Him. Also whether we agree with their individual actions or not cops (and military) this passage tells us they deserve our respect. Do you see brother?

 

 Rom. 3:1-7

 

 

1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Your brother humbly in Christ.

Redeemed,

GE

 

I will not resist an officer or the military in the performance of their duty. But cops are not owed respect, respect is earned, not freely given away. 

 

P.S. Your verses are Romans 13:1-7 not Romans 3:1-7

Edited by firestormx
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I condensed what you said, but I promise I read it.

 

 This may surprise you but I'm not a total pacifist. I believe it is wrong to respond to violence with more violence, unless you are being led by God. There is a difference between acting in the flesh and acting in the spirit. We don't always know the difference in the heat of the moment. An example of a divinely inspired aggressive act would be the Arab-Israel war of 1948 and the 6 day war in 1967. I believe both were divinely inspired and the will of God for the purpose of bring Israel home and fulfilling scripture. It's not my place to determine if God has spoken something to another or not. Jesus didn't teach violence or war, but love and peace. To say that Jesus taught to retaliate when struck, hurt or wronged is just not the gospel I read. But we are told to obey and that if we love him we will obey all that he commands us to do. He has told Israel to go to war many times. My point being if we are responding to violence against us by lashing out in the flesh with more violence then we are wrong. However,   if we are responding to violence against us by taking it to God and /or following the leading of the Holy Spirit in the moment then we are in line with scripture. But Jesus nor the bible teach that we are to respond to violence with more violence.

 

 

One question.....    would you stand by and let someone rape and kill your wife and/or kids?     Would you even stand quietly and let someone beat you and take your life?

 

Well, I guess that's two questions related.

 

I hope this doesn't come across as a cop-out, but I Pray that I would follow the leading of God to the best of my ability. That's all I know to say.  My now Ex-wife was raped ( when we were still married ), I was not there when it happened. At the time I was not saved. In fact I was a satanist at the time. My first response was to kill them if I ever meet them or come across them. I just can't imagine that now that I'm saved and following Jesus the reaction I should have should be the same as when I was a satanist.

 

 

But that is after the incident. Other one is talking about stopping someone from attacking your wife and kids, Could you do that?

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I condensed what you said, but I promise I read it.

 

 This may surprise you but I'm not a total pacifist. I believe it is wrong to respond to violence with more violence, unless you are being led by God. There is a difference between acting in the flesh and acting in the spirit. We don't always know the difference in the heat of the moment. An example of a divinely inspired aggressive act would be the Arab-Israel war of 1948 and the 6 day war in 1967. I believe both were divinely inspired and the will of God for the purpose of bring Israel home and fulfilling scripture. It's not my place to determine if God has spoken something to another or not. Jesus didn't teach violence or war, but love and peace. To say that Jesus taught to retaliate when struck, hurt or wronged is just not the gospel I read. But we are told to obey and that if we love him we will obey all that he commands us to do. He has told Israel to go to war many times. My point being if we are responding to violence against us by lashing out in the flesh with more violence then we are wrong. However,   if we are responding to violence against us by taking it to God and /or following the leading of the Holy Spirit in the moment then we are in line with scripture. But Jesus nor the bible teach that we are to respond to violence with more violence.

 

 

One question.....    would you stand by and let someone rape and kill your wife and/or kids?     Would you even stand quietly and let someone beat you and take your life?

 

Well, I guess that's two questions related.

 

I hope this doesn't come across as a cop-out, but I Pray that I would follow the leading of God to the best of my ability. That's all I know to say.  My now Ex-wife was raped ( when we were still married ), I was not there when it happened. At the time I was not saved. In fact I was a satanist at the time. My first response was to kill them if I ever meet them or come across them. I just can't imagine that now that I'm saved and following Jesus the reaction I should have should be the same as when I was a satanist.

 

 

But that is after the incident. Other one is talking about stopping someone from attacking your wife and kids, Could you do that?

 

All I know to say is I pray I would follow the leading of God to the best of ability and not act out in the flesh which has always got me in trouble. maybe restrain and detain them, but something non violent.

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I think I'm done with the thread...

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I'm curious...how do you stop a violent attack with non-violence...mind you, I did once stop one by saying 'I rebuke you in Jesus Name' and they fell back...but it didn't work the next time.

 

Maybe I should have got out sooner..........

 

seriously though, do you say 'please stop?' or 'I don't believe in violence so I am asking you to stop because it offends my faith?'

 

I'm honestly not trying to be sarcastic...but I can imagine what I would do while probably yelling 'Jesus help me!'

 

ps...I don't own a gun...this thread seems to have gone to the root of the matter...self defense in a situation where self defense is viable but a person chooses to:

 

a.  do nothing

 

b.  do something

 

no pressure

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I'm curious...how do you stop a violent attack with non-violence...mind you, I did once stop one by saying 'I rebuke you in Jesus Name' and they fell back...but it didn't work the next time.

 

Maybe I should have got out sooner..........

 

seriously though, do you say 'please stop?' or 'I don't believe in violence so I am asking you to stop because it offends my faith?'

 

I'm honestly not trying to be sarcastic...but I can imagine what I would do while probably yelling 'Jesus help me!'

 

ps...I don't own a gun...this thread seems to have gone to the root of the matter...self defense in a situation where self defense is viable but a person chooses to:

 

a.  do nothing

 

b.  do something

 

no pressure

Other than rebuking them, which you covered, the only thing I know is to restrain them or detain them. You can restrain or detain someone without much of any violence. Also,  As I said, if the Holy Spirit leads you to respond differently then follow the leading of God.

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:taped:

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I do not own a gun, would if I could but I do not have the money right now. Instead, I take the extra mile to know my family is safe. However, I wish every christian had one. Most of the time, if your a sinner, they will be the first ones to tell you your going to hell, but they won't be the one to send you there! lol

Edited by MrKruback
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Most states have codified the common law rule that a warrantless arrest may be made by a private person for a felony, misdemeanor or "breach of peace".[1] A breach of peace covers a multitude of crimes in which the Supreme Court has even included a misdemeanor seatbelt violation punishable only by a fine. The term historically included theft, "nightwalking", prostitution and playing card and dice games

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Firestorm you claim I was only using the one verse. Well, first-if you had read my entire reply you would see that I didnt-i made a very strong argument using old testament law. If you choose to ignore everything else I said that's fine-but don't sit here and say that's all I'm using.

Second yes I bring it up because no one-to date including you-has been able to refute it. You still haven't. How can a God order you to break His rules-for any reason whatsoever, and still be a just God? He can't. I don't care how you spin it Jesus won't order you to sin. So obviously owning weapons is not a sin. In fact no where in the Bible does it say that, it is not biblical. Even the verses you brought up only deal with the use of said weapons-not whether or not you can own them.

And you can't just use the new testament you have to include the old. It is part of the bible and its all profitable to teaching, reproof and doctrine-the apostle Paul said that. Paul also said the law was given so that we know what is and what is not sin. If we ignore the old testament we are ignoring the apostle paul.

So what you are saying is that you are incapable of answering my questions in post # 291.

I believe I did in the very next post. I pointed out first it'd not a sin to own a weapon-that is not a scriptural argument. There is nowhere in the bible that says it is and Jesus wouldn't tell you to sin so its not. Period. You can't argue around that no matter what that is a fact.

As far as the action you want to blatantly ignore my reply just because I didn't give you the answer you wanted doesn't mean I didn't answer. Jesus didn't come to do away with the old testament but to fulfill it. We are not bound by the law but the law still defines what sin is. Romans 7:7. To blatantly ignore the old testament is unwise, its calling Paul a liar. If your only answer to that is we don't live under the old covenant-then you have no answer at all. Ignoring answers to your questions doesn't make you right.

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