justfaith Posted October 30, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2014 Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV) 12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Who is the woman ? What does clothed in the sun , moon under feet and 12 crowns mean ? When did this happen ? where is the wilderness? what is meant by thousand two hundred and threescore days. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted October 30, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2014 Genesis 37:9 (NKJV) 9 Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, and said, "Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me." Genesis 37:10 (NKJV) 10 So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you?" The woman is Israel, in the sense that she, through the generations, has been the line through which the "seed of the woman" of Gen 3 would be brought forth. She is Israel, in the sense that she begins with Eve. Fleeing to the wilderness here is analogous to Mat 24:16, those in Judea fleeing for the mountains. Between v5 and 6 is an example of the "church gap", where scripture that deals with Israel seems to move straight past "us", and continue the thought as though our time didn't happen. I don't get "what is meant by 1260 days"? -It means 1260 days, or 42 months, etc. What is ambiguous here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfaith Posted October 30, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Genesis 37:9 (NKJV) 9 Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, and said, "Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me." Genesis 37:10 (NKJV) 10 So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you?" The woman is Israel, in the sense that she, through the generations, has been the line through which the "seed of the woman" of Gen 3 would be brought forth. She is Israel, in the sense that she begins with Eve. Fleeing to the wilderness here is analogous to Mat 24:16, those in Judea fleeing for the mountains. Between v5 and 6 is an example of the "church gap", where scripture that deals with Israel seems to move straight past "us", and continue the thought as though our time didn't happen. I don't get "what is meant by 1260 days"? -It means 1260 days, or 42 months, etc. What is ambiguous here? moon under fet means what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted October 30, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's a vision. It is a graphic way to tie the elements of Joseph's dream to the situation that John is seeing. To speculate further: The woman of Rev 12 stands on/is supported by/is rooted upon/grows out of the "moon" of Joseph's dream, which is clearly Joseph's mother. Clothed with the sun, again against the backdrop of Joseph's dream, would seem to suggest the authority or house of Jacob. A lord's authority was often expressed in his robe. The embroidery of the hem could be impressed onto a clay tablet as his "signature", etc. Those under a lord's authority are said to be under his hem (Ruth 3:9). The crown of twelve stars is pretty obviously the twelve tribes or twelve sons of Jacob. The woman of Rev 12 has these sons as her crown, her crowning achievement, her signature characteristic, the thing she most proudly displays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted October 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2014 The woman is Israel. The Child is Jesus, The dragon is satan. 1260 days also = 3 1/2 years, or the last portion of the tribulation in which she will be protected. First satan persecuted the Jews, the Woman, and then he mad war with the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of CHRIST. THE CHURCH, both jews and gentiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfaith Posted October 30, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's a vision. It is a graphic way to tie the elements of Joseph's dream to the situation that John is seeing. To speculate further: The woman of Rev 12 stands on/is supported by/is rooted upon/grows out of the "moon" of Joseph's dream, which is clearly Joseph's mother. Clothed with the sun, again against the backdrop of Joseph's dream, would seem to suggest the authority or house of Jacob. A lord's authority was often expressed in his robe. The embroidery of the hem could be impressed onto a clay tablet as his "signature", etc. Those under a lord's authority are said to be under his hem (Ruth 3:9). The crown of twelve stars is pretty obviously the twelve tribes or twelve sons of Jacob. The woman of Rev 12 has these sons as her crown, her crowning achievement, her signature characteristic, the thing she most proudly displays. Where did you get this from because the moon in joseph dream is positioned different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted October 30, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2014 so is sun stars used Bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted October 31, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2014 My commentsThe woman is national Israel .... not the church, and not Mary as RCC tradition claimsThe Lord is the Man ChildSatan is the dragonThe Revelation view has historical backdrop [the Lord caught up in the first century], but is primarily a view of the returned believing remnant of Israel to the land during the coming 70th week decreed for IsraelSatan will attempt to destroy Israel during the 70th week, but the Lord will protect the believing remnant part in the Bozrah/Petra wilderness east of Jerusalem during the second 1260 days of the 70th weekWhen Satan is prohibited from reaching them he will then go after the balance of Israel still living in other nationsRelated scriptures are [Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-36; Revelation 11] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevosper Posted October 31, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 317 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2014 "clothed in the sun" could also be interpreted as being wrapped in God's righteous judgement and the in the light of His government. In 2 Sam 23:4, King David emplifies this type of government: 2Sa 23:3-4 KJV - The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. - And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted October 31, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2014 The woman and child as Israel and Jesus are safe answers, but the text seems to imply a broader scope to the scene. First, the woman's description makes her a model of Israel- the symbols by which she is represented have a much broader historical sweep, going back at least as far as Jacob. And she "being" (present active participle) with child seems to be an expansive phrase, like it is a condition she has always had; this is her definition, more than a temporary condition. Thus her beginning is with the promise in Genesis 3:15, that through her would come "the seed of the woman". Since Eve fits this part of the description of the woman in Rev 12, and there is a sense that Israel's roots go back to Eve in a way that ours don't- the genealogies all trace the redemptive line and "funnel" toward Israel, and the kings, and Jesus- so I see this woman in Rev 12 as Israel for sure, but also the redemptive line. The description of the dragon similarly has a broader historical sweep- he is presented as the one who rebelled in heaven. This is before Genesis 1:2 timeframe, so "from the beginning" as far as humans are concerned. Lastly is the evidence of the dragon focussing on the line of redemption through Israel's history. Each time a promise is made that channels the line through a certain person, that person or their offspring seem to be singled out for special persecution, and each time God preserves a remnant. Israel's history is a fascinating tale in this regard, as God is always one step ahead and uses the wildest mechanisms to preserve His plan, and thwart Satan's schemes. The dragon has been trying to devour "the child" since Eve, and in this way anti-semitism shows it real roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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