Woman , Man Child, dragon

[Kan]

It is a collection of all the time spans in Daniel, which I drew up as a teenager.

The two main ones - the 1260 days or 3 1/2 years, also mentioned as the "time (1) times (2) and half a time (1/2)." and the 2300 days.

The 3 1/2 years is mentioned in other ways in Revelation such as the 42 months, 30 days x 40 = 1260 days.

Whenever this time frame is mentioned, it is not talking about separate events, but about the same thing and time period in history. Understanding that, allows you to glue it all together.

If we take these time spans and uproot them from their ancient context, and place them as tiny time frames into the future, there is nothing in the Bible to pinpoint or prove when they start or finish, and so we have millions who keep reapplying these times whenever a Saddam Hussein turns up, or occurring blood moons (natural eclipses of the moon) and Sept 23rd's come up and so on. 

The main stay in this chart is the death of Christ. Even Christ knew His own time had come by this prophecy, so I doubt whether it is future and, or calculated in days rather than years.

[Kan]

Can you see the woman, child and after the dragon reigning for 1260 years in this chart? Can you see when the woman was in the wilderness for 1260 years?

Israel, Christ and the reign of the persecuting Papacy.

The dragon in Revelation 12 is clearly Satan, ruling through the empires of this old world. Can you see Babylon, Persia, Greece, ROME, and the Papacy in this chart? What comes after the Papacy is the US and Communism, the beast with lamb like horns (Christian) and the scarlet or red beast - communism. 

You can also picture the old sanctuary service ending with Christ, and the new service in heaven beginning at His ascension, and the last phase of that service beginning at the end of the 2300 years. As written "the sanctuary will be ratified" or cleansed. The cause of God through Christ the high priest will be honored and declared as finished. By faith we may join Christ in that victory of honoring the name of God in the world. 

[thereselittleflower]

The 490 year prophecy was given to Daniel as an explanation for the 2300 years, because Daniel was concerned for the people of Israel and the center of its worship the temple, which was supposed to be filled with the glory of God and not abominations. So the angel explains the fate of Israel and how it fits into the greater picture of the temple in heaven and its services by Christ, because the 2300 years is talking about the greater temple in heaven and not the earthly which would come to an end as predicted.

So the prophetic time spans connected with the beginning of the 2300 years relate to the earthly, and the time spans connected to the end of the 2300 years are concerned with the Antichrist trampling on the rightful place of the heavenly sanctuary in the world through the gospel. The title of the Pope is the vicar of Christ (on earth). No he is not.

How did the Antichrist subvert the truth? by setting up itself as the representative of God on earth and making its own false priesthood. But we worship the Lord Jesus Christ as our high priest and we count on His ministry for us in the heavenly temple.

The Papacy was set up in 508 AD, it began to reign in 538 AD, and ended in 1798 AD.

Daniel 12, The 1335 years are from the set up of the Papacy till the end of the 2300 years. The 1290 years are from the set up until the end of the 1260 years of reign.

This same horn power is still alive today, after receiving a deadly wound in 1798 AD, and it will soon have it's last stand before being destroyed by the returning Christ.

I am sorry Kan, but your historical information is incorrect.

Please qualify your objection- give a brief reason for it. It does not have to be a reference to a whole library, just a comment like - "the date 457 BC how did you arrive at that?"

Where do you come up with your data for the papacy?  As far as my knowledge of history goes, those dates are obviously not correct. The papacy did not end in 1798, it is still  here.  And it didn't get set up in 508 AD.  I didn't look past that.  But if your calculations are based on bad data there than that will affect everything else I would think.

 

 

It is a collection of all the time spans in Daniel, which I drew up as a teenager.

The two main ones - the 1260 days or 3 1/2 years, also mentioned as the "time (1) times (2) and half a time (1/2)." and the 2300 days.

The 3 1/2 years is mentioned in other ways in Revelation such as the 42 months, 30 days x 40 = 1260 days.

Whenever this time frame is mentioned, it is not talking about separate events, but about the same thing and time period in history. Understanding that, allows you to glue it all together.

If we take these time spans and uproot them from their ancient context, and place them as tiny time frames into the future, there is nothing in the Bible to pinpoint or prove when they start or finish, and so we have millions who keep reapplying these times whenever a Saddam Hussein turns up, or occurring blood moons (natural eclipses of the moon) and Sept 23rd's come up and so on. 

The main stay in this chart is the death of Christ. Even Christ knew His own time had come by this prophecy, so I doubt whether it is future and, or calculated in days rather than years.

I would say you need to do more research into history.

Edited October 26, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Kan]

Sorry about that, I should explain that the political reign of the Papacy was 1260 years within the dates mentioned.

It's power as a ruling body was removed in 1798 when the Pope was taken captive and removed from office by the general of the French army. It's set up involved removing three of the ten kingdoms of Europe, which opposed her rule and dogmas. In March 538 AD The Emperor Justinian, after the defeat of the Ostrogoths who withdrew from Rome, decreed the Bishop of Rome as the official head of the church. This was the beginning of the church's reign, having full political power.

Cambridge Medievil History Vol 2 p 15.

Siege of Rome, 537 538 AD Wikipedia.

 

[Daniel 11:36]

This is a revelation of the Lord, Israel, and Satan

There are both past events for overview given in the passage and future events that will take place during the 70th week decreed for Israel 

 

[Kan]

The 69th week according to Daniel takes us to the appearance of the messiah to Israel, which began at His baptism. One week later or 7 days/years later, the gospel goes to the Gentiles, "the times of the Gentiles" has begun, while the times for Israel is officially over, according to the 70 week prophecy. In the middle of the week, as Daniel tells, the Messiah is cut off. Jesus was crucified 3 1/2 years after He was baptized. 3 1/2 years later Stephen, the first follower of Christ to be Martyred, was stoned by the Jews, while in the presence of Paul (formerly Saul) who God would use to take the Gospel to the Gentiles, as well as show the Jewish nation where they were at in so far as their God given dispensation was concerned. 

If the last week of the 70 is supposed to be separated and placed somewhere into our future, where are the instructions to do so from the Bible? And are there any specific starting times given for it, as we have for the 70 week period, which begins in 457 BC?

[Daniel 11:36]

The 70 weeks of years [490 360 days prophetic years] began in 457 BC .... and has transpired for the first 483 years [69 weeks of years]

And the Lord was rejected by Israel and cutoff .... He has delayed the beginning of the 70th week which is for Daniel's people Israel .... not the church of today

The 70th week will begin just after the infilling of the Gentile church [Romans 11:25-36] this dating has not been revealed in scripture and no one can know the time

The prophets are totally silent with regard for events upon the earth between the 69th and the future 70th week

If one studies the Lord's discourse related to the time of the end and the visions of His prophets you an find this period of silence in all of them

Examples: [Daniel 11:35 ................ 11:36]; [Revelation 12:5 ............ 12:6]

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Daniel 11:36

[Kan]

I find the 70th week in the following text - Daniel 9:27,

(verse 26 says that after the 62 weeks - from the walls being established verse 25, -  "shall Messiah be cut off", so the death of Christ occurs after the completion of the 62 weeks, which brings us to 27 AD).

Now that brings us into the 70th week and the text says, He shall confirm the covenant (of God's grace) for one week, and in the middle of that week, He will cause the sacrificial system to end, which had unnecessarily been corrupted by the nation.

When Jesus died, the temple curtain was torn from top to bottom. He ended that old system which pointed to His death. Jesus died in 31 AD, in the middle of the last week of grace for Israel as a nation.

For individuals, God's grace would continue, but the calling of that nation was over.

If the 70th week is future, there should be an explanation in the Bible for it.

You have something in mind in your post which I don't understand - the texts in Daniel 11 35,36 and Rev 12:5,6.

I think you are saying that a gap is suggested in time, where the 70th week may have been placed.

From what I have gathered about these few texts, is that verse 6 in Rev, marks the 1260 days (or time times and half a time) (3.5 x 360 = 1260 days. A time we understand to be a year or 360 days). Daniel 11: 36 occurs at the end of those 1260 years, a period of time called "the time of the end" not "the end of time." And it refers to the "time of the end" of the 2300 day vision - Daniel 8:14. Which runs from the end of the 1260 years to the end of the 2300 years which is 46 years.

So for me there is a correlation in those texts you provided.

[Ezra]

Kan

Your whole timeline is off.  There are no 2,300 year Scriptures, as with 1,260; 1,290; 1,355.  All referred to as days.  If you say they are years.  Then Jonah was 3 years in the belly of the fish and Christ was 3 years in the heart of the earth.  The 70th Week has not begun yet.  Christ was crucified at the end of the 69th Week.  There are 1,260 days before the A/D and there are 1,260 days after the A/D.  (the 70th Week). There are an addition 30 days and another 45 days added to the second 1,260 period (1,290 & 1,335); then the end. Daniel 12: 11,12

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv,

Why do Christians like to complicate things when simplicity is the essence of truth? Days mean real, literal, 24 hour days in Scripture. There is just one reference in each Testament which tells us that time means nothing to God, therefore a thousand years are as one day, and one day is as a thousand years.  That is certainly not meant to tell us that in general days do not mean days, and the Ten Commandments confirm the use of days as literal days with reference to the sabbath.

The beauty of Scripture is that for 1,260 days, we also see 42 months, and we also see 3 1/2 years [also expressed as time (1 year) + times (1 x 2 years) + the dividing of times (a half year)]. This means we are not left to guess this period.

What staggers most people is that Messiah would be "cut off" in 30 AD and then Daniel's prophecy would resume to be fulfilled after over 2,000 years.  No one imagined that Israel would be established as a nation-state in 1948 (and if the Arabs and Muslims had there way, it should have already disappeared). But the Lord prophesied about the Abomination of Desolation as a future event which would trigger the Great Tribulation, so all talk about this being fulfilled in 70 AD is pure fantasy.  The world has never seen the Great Tribulation, which Christ said had never occurred and would never occur again -- a unique period of Divine judgement.