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Is the voice of the Son of God the voice of the Archangel -


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No, God is God and an Archangel is an Archangel. Quite a difference.

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3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

No, God is God and an Archangel is an Archangel. Quite a difference.

Hey Missmuffet,

You said no to my response but only because  God is God and a Archangel is an archangel,  but I remember another similar discussion where a member said it's no different than God being referred to as bread or a door or light. But you're free to disagree. 

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1 hour ago, Remnantrob said:

Hey Missmuffet,

You said no to my response but only because  God is God and a Archangel is an archangel,  but I remember another similar discussion where a member said it's no different than God being referred to as bread or a door or light. But you're free to disagree. 

I do not know if you are saying that the Son of Man is the Archangel. The Jehovah Witness believe that.

Question: "Is Jesus Michael the archangel?"

Answer:
Jesus is not Michael the archangel. The Bible nowhere identifies Jesus as Michael (or any other angel, for that matter). Hebrews 1:5-8 draws a clear distinction between Jesus and the angels: “For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father’? Or again, ‘I will be His Father, and He will be my Son’? And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says, ‘Let all God’s angels worship Him.’ In speaking of the angels He says, ‘He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.’ But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The hierarchy of heavenly beings is made clear in this passage—angels worship Jesus who, as God, is alone worthy of worship. No angel is ever worshipped in Scripture; therefore, Jesus (worthy of worship) cannot be Michael or any other angel (not worthy of worship). The angels are called sons of God (Genesis 6:2-4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7), but Jesus is THE Son of God (Hebrews 1:8; Matthew 4:3-6).

Michael the archangel is perhaps the highest of all the angels. Michael is the only angel in the Bible who is designated “the archangel” (Jude verse 9). Michael the archangel, though, is only an angel. He is not God. The clear distinction in the power and authority of Michael and Jesus can be seen in comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is God incarnate (John 1:1, 14). Michael the archangel is a powerful angel, but still only an angel.

https://gotquestions.org/Jesus-Michael-Archangel.html

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19 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I do not know if you are saying that the Son of Man is the Archangel. The Jehovah Witness believe that.

Question: "Is Jesus Michael the archangel?"

Answer:
Jesus is not Michael the archangel. The Bible nowhere identifies Jesus as Michael (or any other angel, for that matter). Hebrews 1:5-8 draws a clear distinction between Jesus and the angels: “For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father’? Or again, ‘I will be His Father, and He will be my Son’? And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says, ‘Let all God’s angels worship Him.’ In speaking of the angels He says, ‘He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.’ But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The hierarchy of heavenly beings is made clear in this passage—angels worship Jesus who, as God, is alone worthy of worship. No angel is ever worshipped in Scripture; therefore, Jesus (worthy of worship) cannot be Michael or any other angel (not worthy of worship). The angels are called sons of God (Genesis 6:2-4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7), but Jesus is THE Son of God (Hebrews 1:8; Matthew 4:3-6).

Michael the archangel is perhaps the highest of all the angels. Michael is the only angel in the Bible who is designated “the archangel” (Jude verse 9). Michael the archangel, though, is only an angel. He is not God. The clear distinction in the power and authority of Michael and Jesus can be seen in comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is God incarnate (John 1:1, 14). Michael the archangel is a powerful angel, but still only an angel.

https://gotquestions.org/Jesus-Michael-Archangel.html

That is exactly what I was saying...I know that JWs share that belief but it might be in part because we organized around the same time.  I disagree with gotquestions.org's assesment of the two based on my response 2 posts ago.  

But let me respond to this quote on Michael and I'm sure it's been mentioned before....

Quote

 

The clear distinction in the power and authority of Michael and Jesus can be seen in comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him.


 

If Michael's authority is based on Jude verse 9 then what happened to the Lord's authority in Zechariah 3:1,2:

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even theLord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

 

a) would you question the Lord's power and authority since he used the same wording to rebuke Satan in vs 2 of this chapter?

b) who is the angel of the Lord in this book and why is he referred to as the Lord in vs 2?  

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15 minutes ago, Remnantrob said:

That is exactly what I was saying...I know that JWs share that belief but it might be in part because we organized around the same time.  I disagree with gotquestions.org's assesment of the two based on my response 2 posts ago.  

But let me respond to this quote on Michael and I'm sure it's been mentioned before....

If Michael's authority is based on Jude verse 9 then what happened to the Lord's authority in Zechariah 3:1,2:

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even theLord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

 

a) would you question the Lord's power and authority since he used the same wording to rebuke Satan in vs 2 of this chapter?

b) who is the angel of the Lord in this book and why is he referred to as the Lord in vs 2?  

I don't buy it.

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3 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

That is exactly what I was saying...I know that JWs share that belief but it might be in part because we organized around the same time.  I disagree with gotquestions.org's assesment of the two based on my response 2 posts ago.  

But let me respond to this quote on Michael and I'm sure it's been mentioned before....

If Michael's authority is based on Jude verse 9 then what happened to the Lord's authority in Zechariah 3:1,2:

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even theLord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

 

a) would you question the Lord's power and authority since he used the same wording to rebuke Satan in vs 2 of this chapter?

b) who is the angel of the Lord in this book and why is he referred to as the Lord in vs 2?  

 You need to consider the whole context. First off, you need to understand the role an angle plays. Like prophets, they bring messages from God and speak on his behalf. the Angel is the mediator of communication between the Lord and Satan.

 To be more direct with question "B)," I would simply say that it is typical for Angels to speak for God so when it says "And the LORD said.." I see this simply as the LORD speaking through his "angelic messenger."

Angels are the ministers who bring messages.

So answer B) is it is a mere angel and he is referred to as the Lord because he speaks as a mediator what God desires to speak. Notice in vs 7 the Angel of the Lord says "THUS SAYS THE LORD" indicating that the Angel is only channeling God's words to those before him. Rightly so, anytime a prophet said "thus says the Lord, I will destroy..." it can be equally written "The Lord said: I will destroy," because it is the same thing. So this is not an angel using his own words to "rebuke" Satan but God's words. Angels cannot utilize their own words for judgement on higher beings. The Lord rebuked Satan even in Zechariah by responding back at Satan saying "Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?" Satan wanted Israel completely destroyed but The Lord reminded him how Israel was (1) chosen by God and (2) a brand plucked out of his fiery judgment because they were chosen. This would have silenced Satan and his goal to destroy Israel forever.

Edited by Ariel16
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2 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I don't buy it.

Neither do I: angels do not create, and the Word  (Jesus) is described in John 1 as being the one "through whom all things were made". If Jesus were only an angel, then that would imply that He would had to have created Himself!

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8 hours ago, RobertS said:

Neither do I: angels do not create, and the Word  (Jesus) is described in John 1 as being the one "through whom all things were made". If Jesus were only an angel, then that would imply that He would had to have created Himself!

Hi robert,

We have no trouble with God being a Word:rolleyes:....just saying

Non Christians like to point out that in the bible it says God can't be tempted and God can't die, but yet somehow in his infinite wisdom he chose to relate to us as a human.  Is it really that ridiculous of an idea that Christ could have chosen to relate to angelic beings as such though he isn't a created being? Just saying. 

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6 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

We have no trouble with God being a Word

God is not "a Word" but "THE Word". Big difference.

6 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

Is it really that ridiculous of an idea that Christ could have chosen to relate to angelic beings as such though he isn't a created being?

As a matter of fact Christ appeared as "THE Angel of the LORD" to men in the Old Testament.  Again there is a difference between "an angel of the LORD" and "the Angel of the LORD".  This was the Word of God before He became Jesus.

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9 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

 Is it really that ridiculous of an idea that Christ could have chosen to relate to angelic beings as such though he isn't a created being? Just saying. 

Yes.

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