How does one goes about willingly believing in Christ and the Spirit&#

[Shaney777]

Hello everyone,

 

I am looking for advice on something that has plagued my mind for a while.

 

Firstly, you should probably know that I see myself as a soft agnostic: due to the world's brightest disagreeing on crucial aspects of religion and philosophy, I see no way to make a decision on what is true (corresponding to the facts). Because of this conclusion, and my intense fear of hell in the afterlife, I decided that there had to be a way to decide on a worldview without trusting man's opinions. Since I was raised in a Christian home, I've chosen to first investigate the Holy Spirit's role in bringing about belief to individuals. That is why I am posting on this forum. I want to know how exactly the Holy Spirit is instrumental to intellectual belief, and I would like to know if the Spirit gives us something other than faith to convince us of Christianity's truth. What does the Bible say on the matter? Natural theology is never going to convince me of anything. God is essentially hidden, so how, other than pragmatical reasons and ignorance, do people come to be Christians?

 

Shane

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Shane(cool name,like the movie character)

    Welcome to Worthy............I am really not sure what you are asking,honestly.......I can truly understand your intense fear of of hell....after all,eternity is a very long time & it is certainly not something to dismiss,your eternal life will either be spent in one of 2 places,,,& that's it   Whatever your reasons for wanting to seek God or Salvation is certainly good enough for me,aat least God is drawing you unto Himself(that hunger & thirst to know MORE!!!)And that my friend,is the Power of the Holy Spirit of God...........the same Spirit that has lead you here to this Ministry,Glory to God!

    Shane ,The Holy Spirit my very well have drawn you or laid it on your heart but 'bring about belief",,,I do not believe so ,,,,that is where "free will "comes in to play ,,,,it is your choice to believe or not to believe and He does not have to convince you /us of anything,,,,as the Scriptures tell us.....

 

King James Bible
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:                                                                                                                                                                                                    Romans 1:20

   The Holy Spirit is beyond our intellect,reasoning or logic.............often times I will say that knowledge gets in the way of Wisdom....thats what faith is all about  ,,,,

 

King James Bible
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.                                                                                                             Hebrews 11:1

  My Friend ,faith is strengthened & grows by hearing the Word of God

 

King James Bible
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.                                                                                                         Romans 10:17

If you want to know the Truth ,there is only One Way to find that Truth,,,through Jesus Christ ,the Way ,the Truth & the Life ,,,,,through Him we are indwelled with the Holy Spirit & by His Power we receive Wisdom & Understanding & reconciliation to our Heavenly Father........................I encourage you to read Gods Word with an open heart ,an open mind & the desire to know God,not know about Him but to seek Him,Shane ,if you seek Him with an earnest heart(in His Word) ,,,He will reveal Himself to you

    Being raised in a Christian home ,going to church on Sundays with the family ,saying  prayers every night before bed & meals ,,,,means nothing if the individual is not individual is not in a relationship with our Lord.....May I suggest that you begin in the Book of John,read Gods love letter written to you ,personally ,,,,,,look with the eyes of your heart

       Shane I hope that somehow I have helped to encourage you by just talking to you from my heart ,I can only share with you what I have found,,,so true,theology isn't going to do it ,neither is shoving the Gospel down your throat,,,,,,but hopefully,by loving you with the love of Christ will,God Bless you,my friend                                                                                              With love -in Christ,Kwik

[Marilyn C]

Hi Shaney 777,

 

Welcome to Worthy. My dear friend Kwik, has really expressed it all from her dear, caring heart to you. Follow her advice as it is an operation of our will to respond to the Holy Spirit`s leading. Leading you to inquire, ask, read, think, meditate on what you`ve read in God`s word....& you`ll find that by taking those steps that the Holy Spirit will be there by your side opening up your mind & heart to truth. Then the decision is yours.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Guest]

Welcome~!

 

~

 

God is essentially hidden....

 

 

Essentially

 

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Psalms 19:1

 

God Is Revealed

 

Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Psalms 19:2-3

 

To All Men

 

Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Psalms 19:4

 

If....

 

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

[OneLight]

Welcome Shane,

 

I moved this to the Inner Court under Doctrinal Questions so all you will receive are replies from those who do love and follow the Lord.  The Outer Court is designed to allow nonbelievers to ask questions about our faith so they can have a better understanding, which would mean that they also would be allowed to give you replies that may mislead you from the truth.

 

I hope to find time later to help you find your answers.

[Tinky]

Hello Shane! Glad you're here! 

 

 

Natural theology is never going to convince me of anything. God is essentially hidden, so how, other than pragmatical reasons and ignorance, do people come to be Christians?

 

 

 

Actually, God is not hidden. The Bible says, " For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. " (Romans 1:20)

 

What that means is, Creation is proof of a Creator. A Universe doesn't pop into existence from nothing. Nor does life arise from inanimate matter through natural means. Anything that comes into existence must have a cause. It cannot be it's own cause. 

 

Now, as far as the role of the Holy Spirit in conversion: The Spirit convicts us of our sin, our inability to save ourselves, and thus, our need for a Savior. 

 

The Bible teaches that the Father draws men to Christ (John 6:44), the Spirit does the convicting (John 16:8), and through Jesus alone (Acts 4:12), we are saved. 

 

So, actually, all three members of the Trinity are involved in a person's salvation. 

 

 

Hope this helps!   

[Willa]

Father God is also Spirit. Jesus came from Him to reveal His character to us. So on earth He did and said nothing but what the Father told and showed Him to do. You will find this in the Gospel of John which was recommended that you read. It starts by explaining that when Jesus was with God in the beginning, He was called the Word, and the Word Jesus created everything and then was made flesh and dwelt among us. To those who receive Him He gave the right to become born again of the Holy Spirit and adopted into the Father's family. It is by the Holy Spirit that we understand the Bible. We can understand it intellecutally in a curserory way. But the Holy Spirit enables us to discern the depths of the spiritual riches and blessings in God.

We can't see the Spirit, we can only see His affect on peoples' lives. Slowly we become less selfish and more loving. Sometimes changes are very dramatic but usually they come more slowly as we trust God with more problem areas of our lives and allow His Spirit in us to reach out to others. This is what being born again is all about. It is the very life of God being allowed to express Himself in us as we ask Him to direct the things we do and say. We are still uniquely ourselves, only we lose the uglyness of our sin lives. We still trip up and fall at times but we hate the sin now instead of enjoying it so much or not seeing anything wrong with it. So we again confess our sin to God and ask Him to remove it from our lives.

So the Holy Spirit came to show us Jesus, and Jesus came to show us Father God. But the only way to get personally acquainted with God is to turn away from the sin of not acknowledging God, and turn to Him to receive His forgiveness that was purchased for you when Jesus died in your place on the cross. The Gospel of John also tells that God so loved you that He gave His Son, that whoever believes in Him can have everlasting life. But that unbelievers are already condemned to hell because they have not believed in and trusted in Jesus.

You will find some very intellectual people on this site. But we can't understand God purely with our intellect or only people with high IQs could be saved. God tells us we have to become like little trusting children. The playing field has been leveled. Often people who are very intelligent are too proud to humble themselves and admit that they need help. They are not perfect, nor can they obey God perfectly, and our pure, holy God demands perfection. So when perfect Jesus died for our sins on the cross, He conferred His perfection on those who will receive Him. He traded places with us. This is called substitutionary atonement. We are seen by God as righteous when His Holy Spirit lives in us; this is made possible when you trust that Christ's death and resurrection was on your behalf and sincerely confess to others that He is your Lord and Savior. You are then born again of the Holy Spirit. God loves you that much and cares about you personally. He doesn't want you to go to hell either. Nor does He want you to make your life on earth a living hell. He is a loving Father Who wants what is best for you.

The bible in 1 Corinthians 18-21 also tells us that the message of the cross foolishness to those that are perishing, but it is the power of God to those that are being saved. Is. 29:14 " I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message that was preached to save those who believe." v. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." NKJV

These are not empty words. They have been proven in the life of every true believer. They produce an intimate relationship with the Living God and Creator of the universe in each of us. That communion with Him becomes the central most important thing in our lives. It is what keeps us going, it fills us with compassion to give and care about others, it changes our values and more's; we are filled with peace, joy, gratitude, thanksgiving and praise for God. We still have hard times, but we face them with God's help and strength.

[Littlelambseativy]

You said, how other than through pragmatism and ignorance do people become Christian. That may be your undoing. Jesus said unless you come as a child .. You must come the way a child would come to an earthly father and expect that all would be forgiven because of their relationship...grounded in love. We do come to the Father as children accepting that if we ask He will forgive and call us child. You are making this relationship more difficult than it is. God wants our love. Not mindless following but love. If I went to my father after I did something wrong I expected him because he loved me to say...you were wrong, but forgive me and still love me and call me daughter and continue as if nothing had destroyed our relationship. Love and forgiveness from our Heavenly Father is what our souls were created for. We yearn for a relationship with people and take it from anyone who is willing to use us and cast us away when their needs are met yet the eternal love from God the Father is so unimaginable and difficult to accept. Come with childlike faith and awe into the presence of One who sent His only begotten Son to die for you. Do you find that in any other religion? No other religion is based in love unmerited yet fully given freely to those who but ask to be forgiven by a God who lives now and forever. We yearn to be with Him and want you too. Accept the free gift of pardon freely offered. Tomorrow may be too late... We know not the future. This moment and this alone are ours.

[Guest]

You said, how other than through pragmatism...

 

and ignorance do people become Christian....

 

That may be your undoing....

 

 

The Thoughts Of Too Many Of Those Mr. Hopeless Talkers And Walkers

 

And

they said,

There is no hope:

but we will walk after our own devices,

and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart. Jeremiah 18:12

 

As Opposed To Those Who Would Taste The LORD's

 

And

Jesus answered him,

saying, It is written, That man shall

not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Luke 4:4

 

Truth

 

So then

faith cometh by hearing,

and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

~

 

It's Your Choice

 

For

God so loved the world,

that he gave his only begotten Son,

that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;

but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned:

 

but he

that believeth not

is condemned already,

because he hath not believed

in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-17

 

~

 

Believe

 

Jesus said unto her,

I am the resurrection, and the life:

he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

 

And Be Blessed Beloved

 

Yet a little while,

and the world seeth me no more;

but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. John 14:19-20

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[2404]

Hello everyone,

 

I am looking for advice on something that has plagued my mind for a while.

 

Firstly, you should probably know that I see myself as a soft agnostic: due to the world's brightest disagreeing on crucial aspects of religion and philosophy, I see no way to make a decision on what is true (corresponding to the facts). Because of this conclusion, and my intense fear of hell in the afterlife, I decided that there had to be a way to decide on a worldview without trusting man's opinions. Since I was raised in a Christian home, I've chosen to first investigate the Holy Spirit's role in bringing about belief to individuals. That is why I am posting on this forum. I want to know how exactly the Holy Spirit is instrumental to intellectual belief, and I would like to know if the Spirit gives us something other than faith to convince us of Christianity's truth. What does the Bible say on the matter? Natural theology is never going to convince me of anything. God is essentially hidden, so how, other than pragmatical reasons and ignorance, do people come to be Christians?

 

Shane

 

Hello Shane

Sounds like a worthy pursuit.

So you have grown up in a Christian family and heard it all but you want some laboratory proof.

I agree that one religion may be as good as another. Some may be more adept at stimulating the senses others find their strength in binding their members by one means or another but then of course you are looking for some proof that transcends all of that - but still touches the senses?

Perhaps the proof you are looking for cannot be taken but must be given and if it is given then it must come by the chosen way of the Giver. I believe if we can really yield our self (that being the catch) then the Word says He is more willing to give than we are to receive.

 

You also say you would like to know how exactly the Holy Spirit is instrumental to intellectual belief outside of faith.

I would rather have faith then things will happen, my intellect will stay in the ground. (There is an intelligence on the other side but not one that is tied to our biological makeup.)

His Word requires believing  more than explaining.

I would also like to say that God isn't hidden we just have to have eyes to see.

You know the story of the Syrophenician woman - she seen the Pharisees did not.

Edited December 13, 2014 by 2404