What was revealed???

[Celt]

Some good posts you all. We've come down today to the times our Lord Jesus and His Apostles and prophets have warned us about a great affliction coming. Who knowing His Word could miss these times today? Those on the "strong delusion" will not understand.

I must give a warning here, because part of the "strong delusion" apostle Paul was speaking about some have sought to change into a different type of warning than what is written. Mark 13 is a good Chapter to recall in relation to the "strong delusion", because it goes along with the seven seals of Revelation 6, and what Paul was warning us about. That means our Lord was giving us an outline of end time events just prior to His coming.

Mark 13:1-37

1 And as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples saith unto Him, "Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!"

2 And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,

4 "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"

Christ and His disciples are on the Mount of Olives, the very place where our Lord ascended to Heaven per Acts 1, and the very spot where His feet are to set down at His coming per Zechariah 14. His disciples looked at the then standing Temple complex of buildings, and wondered at them. Our Lord said a time would come when literally not one stone on top of another would be standing there, and they then asked what the sign of that would be. In Matthew 24, the parallel to this Witness, His disciples asked that question in a more revealing way...

Matt 24:3

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

(KJV)

THIS is how we are to study God's Word, and measure all things against It. If the Matt.24 witness had been left out of this, then the deceivers could apply these signs just to 70 A.D. when the all those buildings were destroyed, except for the Western Wall which still stands today. Christ's disciples asked Him specifically about the sign of His coming, and the end of this world. Neither one of those events have happenned yet today, so that obviously moves this sign our Lord Jesus is giving to the very end of this world, just prior to His coming. Note His disciples came to Him "privately" with that question.

5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

6 For many shall come in My name, saying, "I am Christ"; and shall deceive many.

In Rev.6, the first seal is about one who comes on a white horse to conquer. Our Lord's first warning is to not let any man deceive us. The rider on that horse has a crown of twine, and a bow of simple fabric, per the Greek of Rev.6. Who else comes riding a white horse per God's Word? Our Lord Jesus does, as in Rev.19. But this one in Rev.6 is not our Lord Jesus, not wearing a simple crown nor with a bow of cheap fabric, for our Lord Jesus returns with many diadems and a sword that cuts both ways. By that we should easily recognize this rider on the white horse of Rev.6 as a false one, an imposter, the "antichrist".

This Mark 13:6 verse points to many coming in Christ's Name, saying "I am Christ", and shall deceive many. In 1 John 2:18, Apostle John mentioned that "antichrist" shall come, and that even then already there were "many antichrists". Later in Mark 13 our Lord is going to point to a specific false one in relation to the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel. That means to keep the "many antichrists" and "antichrist" separate, for they are different entities. The many antichrists are used to set the stage in prep for the main antichrist, to bring the "strong delusion" Paul warned of in 2 Thess.2. They are the "mystery of iniquity", the workers for the "antichrist" that is to come riding upon a white horse, trying to mimic the way our Lord Jesus returns upon a white horse.

7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

We've all heard this verse quoted to the hilt, but often deceivingly, because only the first part is stressed while the last two phrases are mostly left out. The last two phrases show us that as long as we do hear of wars and rumors of wars, then the end, or the very last events are not yet. So what's the opposite of wars and rumors of wars? The opposite is a time of peace. What is it that mankind today wants? World peace. There are even many earthly organizations that claim to be working for that purpose of world peace. The globalists want it, even as they want their "one world government" system to be head over it. We should mark that difference our Lord Jesus has revealed here. The apostle Paul also mentioned this opposite time of world peace on earth, in 1 Thess.5, that when 'they' shall say, "Peace and safety", then sudden destruction will come upon 'them'. That's a sign that the very end is to be a time when all wars and rumors of wars have stopped, and a type of world peace will be over the earth. It will be a real world peace, but for deceptive reasons under that false one that comes riding on the first white horse. That relates directly to the time of the "strong delusion" Paul warned of. So this Mark 13 sign relates to the second seal of Rev.6, that of war.

8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

This is the third and fourth seals of Rev.6, for it covers famines and troubles. The third seal is that of the balances of world commerce. We are told 'a measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny', meaning you'd have to work all day just to buy a loaf of bread. It's to be a time of spiritual famine also (per Amos 8), and that's why Rev.6:6 says to not hurt the oil nor the wine (symbols for God's Truth by The Holy Spirit).

9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Why is this delivering up of Christ's servants left out of most of today's preaching in the pulpits? It would run most of the congregation off, no doubt. But that's the difference when listening to men compared to listening to our Lord in His Word. We are to 'keep' His Word, just like those of the church of Philadelphia, and not be cow-towed by men. This event is about the fifth seal of Rev.6, as we are shown the souls under the altar that were slain for The Word of God, and the Testimony which they held for Christ. They cried for God's vengeance upon the earth, but were told to rest yet a little while, until their brethren on the earth were likewise killed as they were, giving that Testimony for Christ by The Holy Spirit.

Here's the divisions amongst our brethren and families today. It's the difference between those who are already deceived and setup for the "strong delusion", compared to those in Christ who hold to His Word that are not deceived. Today, families are being torn apart as that time of delivering gets closer. Verse 10 about The Gospel being first published among all nations is often understood to mean The Gospel being preached to all nations since Christ died on the cross. But it has a deeper meaning as given here among these verses about Christ's own being delivered up to councils and synagogues. The purpose of their being delivered up is to give a Testimony, a Witness for Christ by The Holy Spirit speaking through them like what happenned on the day of Pentecost. In other words, God is going to speak to the whole world through His servants when they are delivered up in the last days. This is why our Lord Jesus said for His not to "premeditate" what they will say beforehand, but to speak what The Holy Spirits gives to say in that 'hour'.

What time would that especially be for, in relation to the tribulation timing? It will be during the tribulation, when "antichrist" has arrived and in power over all nations. In Rev.13:11, another beast is mentioned, and it represents a religious beast. This event is set for that time when the "synagogues" (means churches) will have been taken over completely, and in service to the antichrist. The working towards that operation has been going on for quite some time now, through world organizations like the World Council of Churches. Just as there is a global economy today, and movements towards a global army, and a global educational system, likewise there's a working towards a one-world global religion. Don't be deceived about that working of the "mystery of iniquity". When that comes, that is how brother shall betray brother to death, and the father the son, and children shall rise up against their parents to cause them to be put to death. It's going to be a time similar to Hitler's Germany, and Stalin's Communist Russia, with those in fear of their lives turning their own loved ones in, and having them delivered up. Don't fear it our Lord Jesus says, but speak what The Holy Spirit gives you to say in that hour. That's the 5th seal our Lord Jesus was covering.

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

This is a specific warning for Christ's servants that are caught in Jerusalem during the tribulation when the antichrist comes. The "abomination of desolation" is especially about an idol placed in the holy place, and for Jerusalem that specific "holy place" Jesus said in the Matt.24 version of this means inside a physical Temple. That event parallels Rev.13:15 when the antichrist will setup an idol image for all people to worship. Per the historical Babylon parallel, Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, setup a gold image of himself for all to bow down in worship to at the sound of the psalter (musical cue). Daniel and his brethren refused, and thus were delivered up in front of the king of Babylon for sentence to be executed.

Why would our Lord Jesus say, "But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" That's a very... strong warning. And it is a spiritual warning per the Old Testament allegories to not be found travailing with child, spiritually. To travail with child in the spiritual sense per The Bible means to be deceived and in false worship to another, not staying a "chaste virgin" spiritually, but bowing to the "another Jesus" (2 Cor.11).

Praying that your flight is not in 'winter' is another spiritual analogy given in The Word of God. It's about the "untimely figs" parable in Rev.6:13, which talks about the stars (angels) from heaven falling to earth even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when shaken by a might wind. In Rev.12:6-9 we are told that Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven down to this earth after the war in Heaven with him and his angels, vs. Michael and his angels. And when he is cast down to the earth he goes to make war with the saints. This is the sixth seal our Lord Jesus was giving, per Rev.6:12-13. It's related to the fig tree parable. In nature, there are some figs that grow in the winter but drop off just prior to spring-summer. They're good for nothing. The idea of fleeing in "winter" points to the parable, because it's about deception to the "untimely figs" (Satan and his host). The time when Christ's servants are to flee (gather to Him) is the 'summer' harvest, remember? (Luke 21:28-31). The basic Message is that if you flee in winter, then you've been deceived into thinking that the antichrist is Christ come, and bowed too early and to the wrong Christ, not having waited until the proper time of summer harvest later by Christ Jesus.

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

The word "affliction" is the same Greek word translated "tribulation" in the Matthew 24 parallel to this. Our Lord Jesus has already given us plenty of signs to be watching for in the end. So there's not really a need to try and do dating with the Daniel 70 weeks prophecy, especially since our Lord Jesus says here He has 'shortened' that time of tribulation upon His servants.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, "Lo, here is Christ"; or, "lo, he is there"; believe him not:

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Our Lord Jesus already told us about the "abomination of desolation" being setup in the holy place in Jerusalem, and through His servant John about the time when Satan and his angels will be booted out of Heaven down to the earth to persecute His saints, and about a false one (dragon) setting up a false image for the whole world to worship, and that dragon even doing great wonders and miracles in the sight of men (per Rev.13:11 forward). He gave us the clue of the rider on the white horse as a warning in comparing to His true coming on a white horse, and now... our Lord Jesus is very specific about a false Christ(pseudochristos in the Greek), that some will say, "Lo, here is Christ". How much more warning does our Lord Jesus need to give us to know that's the antichrist that must come, and is the heart of the "strong delusion" Paul mentioned in 2 Thess.2? In Matthew 24, our Lord Jesus gave this specific warning about a false Christ two times for emphasis.

Our Lord Jesus even gave a comparison to the level or power of those great signs and wonders that false Christ will work on the earth. It's to be such a powerful working that it would ALMOST deceive His "very elect" servants. It's really going to be a big show, and the majority of peoples on earth are going to believe it, all those who's names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world. That means brethren, many of our 'own' are going to be deceived and wrongly believe on that false Christ.

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

By the time this event of Christ's true coming occurs, the seventh seal and seventh trumpet will have come. This is VERY plain that Christ's coming is AFTER the great tribulation of events He taught thus far. In verse 25 He is giving us reminder again that the stars of heaven shall fall, meaning Satan and his angels are coming to this earth. In other words, He is giving us yet another... clue, as to who the antichrist on earth is going to be; it will be the devil himself cast to the earth that will cause that great tribulation as He showed earlier on the sixth seal event.

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

This is the only time of the gathering of Christ's saints. It is for after the tribulation as written here. Men have other ideas, but our Lord Jesus in His Word here is very clear as to the timing and order of events of His Own coming and gathering of His saints. That event is given at the end of Rev.6, and is tied to the seventh seal and seventh trumpet per Rev.11:15. It is also when the third last 'woe' happens per Rev.11. The first 'woe' happens with the 5th trumpet, and the 2nd 'woe' with the 6th trumpet. But the last 'woe' is on the 7th trumpet, which is when the gathering to Christ will happen as written.

28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Understanding the parable of the fig tree in The Bible is very important in understanding what our Lord covered in the previous verses, like that warning to pray our flight (gathering) is not in "winter" to the untimely or out of season figs. This generation our Lord is talking about means the very last generation on earth just prior to His coming and gathering of His saints. Most pastors realize the timing for that, when Israel became a nation again in 1948 by U.N. Charter vote, since Israel had not been a nation for around 2000 years. That would mean the generation born in 1948 is the last generation prior to Christ's coming, and that is when to start looking for these specific endtime events. It cannot apply to the generation of Christ's Apostles, because remember, these events include the sign of Christ's coming and the end of this world.

31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but My words shall not pass away.

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

No man knows the specific "day and that hour" when Christ's coming will occur. The timing our Lord Jesus gives here with that generation of the fig tree is a 'season', not the day and hour. We can know the 'season', for He gave that to us.

34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36 Lest coming suddenly He find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

(KJV)

Our Lord Jesus gave us the command to be watching for those events He gave us. That is not a command like go about your business and don't worry because we can't know the day or hour, and thus disregard the season and signs He gave us to be watching. If you're one of His, you'll be watching and stay on guard like a watchman. If not, you'll be deceived by men and the doctrines of men. The apostle Paul gave this warning also about those who sleep, sleep in the night (1 Thess.5). He reminded us to be sober and watching. It's because His servants are going to be spiritually and physically tested during this tribulation.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Celt

[Guest wray7119]

There is a new website ministry that you may want to check out. It offers a deeper understanding of God's Word, and what the Lord intends for us. The website is http://www.ourchurch.com/member/d/dayofchrist. It really helped me understand what the Lord expects from his people, and I am sure it will help others as well. As the website says Follow Brother Ken as he Follows the Lord.

[Celt]

There is a new website ministry that you may want to check out. It offers a deeper understanding of God's Word, and what the Lord intends for us. The website is http://www.ourchurch.com/member/d/dayofchrist. It really helped me understand what the Lord expects from his people, and I am sure it will help others as well. As the website says Follow Brother Ken as he Follows the Lord.

We'll see. So far on that website there's a lot of quoting from Scripture used for the idea of fleeing to God's mountain, with the idea that the 'mountain' is symbolic of God's Word. But many of those passages quoted have quite literal meanings when allowing God's Word to flow in the mind to interpret itself. The endtime warning our Lord Jesus gave is for His servants to flee Jerusalem, get out of that area because of the events that are coming especially there with a false messiah.

In Luke 17 our Lord mentioned about the idea of two in the field (world), one 'taken' and the other left. His disciples asked Him where the one taken was taken to, and He answered that wherever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together (Luke 17:37). In Matthew 24:28 our Lord explained what that really means, with wherever the "carcase" is, there the eagles will be gathered together. Eagles don't go after a dead carcase, but vultures do. The parable means the first one taken in the field is to a false one and his wicked host, and they represent vultures, i.e., fake eagles. It's about spiritual deception. So hopefully, that website is not going to try and say to flee like the first one taken, because that would mean falling right into the very deception our Lord and His Apostle Paul warned us about, i.e., the "strong delusion" that's coming upon the whole world.

[Bold Believer]

There is a new website ministry that you may want to check out. It offers a deeper understanding of God's Word, and what the Lord intends for us. The website is http://www.ourchurch.com/member/d/dayofchrist. It really helped me understand what the Lord expects from his people, and I am sure it will help others as well. As the website says Follow Brother Ken as he Follows the Lord.

We'll see. So far on that website there's a lot of quoting from Scripture used for the idea of fleeing to God's mountain, with the idea that the 'mountain' is symbolic of God's Word. But many of those passages quoted have quite literal meanings when allowing God's Word to flow in the mind to interpret itself. The endtime warning our Lord Jesus gave is for His servants to flee Jerusalem, get out of that area because of the events that are coming especially there with a false messiah.

In Luke 17 our Lord mentioned about the idea of two in the field (world), one 'taken' and the other left. His disciples asked Him where the one taken was taken to, and He answered that wherever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together (Luke 17:37). In Matthew 24:28 our Lord explained what that really means, with wherever the "carcase" is, there the eagles will be gathered together. Eagles don't go after a dead carcase, but vultures do. The parable means the first one taken in the field is to a false one and his wicked host, and they represent vultures, i.e., fake eagles. It's about spiritual deception. So hopefully, that website is not going to try and say to flee like the first one taken, because that would mean falling right into the very deception our Lord and His Apostle Paul warned us about, i.e., the "strong delusion" that's coming upon the whole world.

The word used for eagles can also refer to vultures. Eagles are not carrion birds.

The strong delusion? That man is God. When we read the whole chapter, we find that in v 11, we are told that God allows the people of the time referred to 'to believe the lie." KJV says 'a lie'. Other (including the updated NKJV) versions read 'the lie.' I side with the latter understanding. "The" lie makes it a specific lie. What specific lie? The same old crock of hooey Satan has been spouting from the beginning: You shall be like God, determining good and evil.

The man of lawlessness (anomia)is not a who, but rather a whom. I believe Paul is referring to the same kind of people here that he mentioned in Timothy, godless individuals who follow after their own desires, fueled by the lie that they are a god unto themselves. I believe that is what Paul revealed to them previously, that evil men would get worse and worse and that this would culminate in their ultimate destruction at the Lord's coming. Paul's use of the word naos likens the human body to the temple of God and when the man of lawlessness sits in the innermost temple (the heart), he believes himself to BE GOD. He recognizes no other god, be it God or a false god.

[Celt]

The word used for eagles can also refer to vultures. Eagles are not carrion birds.

I agree; that's why I said the real meaning of "eagles" there is vultures. Yet I think there's a reason why it's rendered 'eagles'. In Deut.32:31 God is referred to as The "Rock" (uppercase), and the devil as the "rock" (lowercase). The word "Tyrus" in Ezek.28 where God compares flesh kings to the devil means 'rock'. It's in the sense of Satan wanting to be The Rock, but all he can ever be is a little "rock", a fake. Because the first one 'taken' in the field (world) is taken to wheresoever those 'eagles' are gathered, it means they are fake eagles, vultures disguised as eagles (like the wolves in sheep's clothing idea). Per Rev.12:7-9, the devil and his angels are going to be booted down to this earth in the last days. That's who those fake eagles will be.

The strong delusion? That man is God. When we read the whole chapter, we find that in v 11, we are told that God allows the people of the time referred to 'to believe the lie." KJV says 'a lie'. Other (including the updated NKJV) versions read 'the lie.' I side with the latter understanding. "The" lie makes it a specific lie. What specific lie? The same old crock of hooey Satan has been spouting from the beginning: You shall be like God, determining good and evil.

I assume you mean the idea of men thinking they themselves are their own God. Assuming God's Place is truly what the "strong delusion" is about, but it's applied to a specific false one that's coming which the majority of the world will actually believe... is God. It's not just about people in general that want to be their own gods.

Paul says "that Wicked" in verse 8, even assigning to him "Wicked" as a proper name. Who did the first sin? Wasn't Adam. Who first rebelled in wanting to be The GOD? Wasn't flesh man. Who is the primary 'Wicked one'? Again, not flesh man. Who only has already been judged and sentenced to 'perish' in the "lake of fire"? I hate to drop this as a surprise for many, but only the devil and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish. No flesh born man has been judged to perish yet, not even Judas who betrayed The Lord Jesus, and that even though Judas was referred to as the "son of peridition" in John 17:12. In John 6:70, Christ referred to Judas as "a devil", and that's why the son of perdition title was applied to him. It's in the sense of the "many antichrists", while there still is a primary 'the' antichrist (the devil). In 2 Thess.2, the apostle Paul is not talking about Judas as "the son of perdition", because Judas was already dead and gone. Paul is pointing the original "son of perdition", the one who has already been judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire, the devil himself.

The man of lawlessness (anomia)is not a who, but rather a whom. I believe Paul is referring to the same kind of people here that he mentioned in Timothy, godless individuals who follow after their own desires, fueled by the lie that they are a god unto themselves. I believe that is what Paul revealed to them previously, that evil men would get worse and worse and that this would culminate in their ultimate destruction at the Lord's coming. Paul's use of the word naos likens the human body to the temple of God and when the man of lawlessness sits in the innermost temple (the heart), he believes himself to BE GOD. He recognizes no other god, be it God or a false god.

I strongly disagree that Paul is referring to 'people' in the plural sense or to some movement by people who want to be God, but directly to the devil himself. What Paul mentioned in 2 Thess.2:3-4 about that certain Wicked one sitting in the Temple of God showing himself that he is God must be weighed in conjunction with our Lord's warning in Matthew 24 about the 'pseudochristos' (a false Christ), and the setting up of the "abomination of desolation" in the "holy place" (meaning inside a physical Temple, one in Jerusalem that the orthodox Jews are ready to build in our day). There's no reason to interpret that particular false one Paul mentions there as some false spiritual movement that people in general might practice. The only false spiritual movement it's about is those on the "strong delusion" falling away to worship a false one that comes according to the working of Satan, with all power and signs, and lying wonders (2 Thess.2:8-9). That's the same warning Christ gave in Matt.24 and Rev.13:11 forward about a false one that is to come doing miracles and wonders in the sight of men, all in order to cause as many as will to believe on him in place of God. The "strong delusion" is in believing on that false one in place of God, because of the great signs and wonders that fake one will work on the earth.

[cymba22]

Here is the Word:

2 Thess. 2

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

As I read this, I began to wonder, "where was it that Paul had already talked about this? I didn't know, so I asked the Lord to show me. He did!

Do any of you know where Paul had already spoken of this revealing of the lawless one? I wanted to share it with you, but first please study the passages above.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Going by what the French prime minister said today about the G20 meeting...I wold put him in as a good option right there with Gorden brown!

[Dog House Bill]

Act 17:1 Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.

Act 17:2 And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Act 17:3 explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ."

Is this what you are looking for?

[Dog House Bill]

Wow! I'm glad to see someone else is getting the same as I was, but not in this detail! I have been getting the feeling that today's churches were worshiping the gifts of the Spirit, rather than the Giver of the Spirit. That was the extent of my "revelation". Thank you Sis for this teaching and for the wake up call. I realize that I am late coming into this forum and this topic, but I appreciate the lesson given. Thank-you again for the willingness to obey and to "fear" God in this.

God Bless You,

Bill (formerly known as Bill_c.11)

[Dog House Bill]

How many have seen the news article that Pres. Obama "BOWED" at the waist to the Saudi King? We have been sold out my friends, all of Obama's good intentions are not even considering God in any of his budgets, just the $3.5Trillion price tag with the words, "We can do this, We can make it Happen." Actions like this make me think the anti-Christ is sitting in the White House. And the Churches did nothing to stop him from getting there.

May God grant us all mercy when the time comes to go into hideing.

GBU all,

Bill C.

[Guest BornTwice7]

The word used for eagles can also refer to vultures. Eagles are not carrion birds.

I agree; that's why I said the real meaning of "eagles" there is vultures. Yet I think there's a reason why it's rendered 'eagles'. In Deut.32:31 God is referred to as The "Rock" (uppercase), and the devil as the "rock" (lowercase). The word "Tyrus" in Ezek.28 where God compares flesh kings to the devil means 'rock'. It's in the sense of Satan wanting to be The Rock, but all he can ever be is a little "rock", a fake. Because the first one 'taken' in the field (world) is taken to wheresoever those 'eagles' are gathered, it means they are fake eagles, vultures disguised as eagles (like the wolves in sheep's clothing idea). Per Rev.12:7-9, the devil and his angels are going to be booted down to this earth in the last days. That's who those fake eagles will be.

The strong delusion? That man is God. When we read the whole chapter, we find that in v 11, we are told that God allows the people of the time referred to 'to believe the lie." KJV says 'a lie'. Other (including the updated NKJV) versions read 'the lie.' I side with the latter understanding. "The" lie makes it a specific lie. What specific lie? The same old crock of hooey Satan has been spouting from the beginning: You shall be like God, determining good and evil.

I assume you mean the idea of men thinking they themselves are their own God. Assuming God's Place is truly what the "strong delusion" is about, but it's applied to a specific false one that's coming which the majority of the world will actually believe... is God. It's not just about people in general that want to be their own gods.

Paul says "that Wicked" in verse 8, even assigning to him "Wicked" as a proper name. Who did the first sin? Wasn't Adam. Who first rebelled in wanting to be The GOD? Wasn't flesh man. Who is the primary 'Wicked one'? Again, not flesh man. Who only has already been judged and sentenced to 'perish' in the "lake of fire"? I hate to drop this as a surprise for many, but only the devil and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish. No flesh born man has been judged to perish yet, not even Judas who betrayed The Lord Jesus, and that even though Judas was referred to as the "son of peridition" in John 17:12. In John 6:70, Christ referred to Judas as "a devil", and that's why the son of perdition title was applied to him. It's in the sense of the "many antichrists", while there still is a primary 'the' antichrist (the devil). In 2 Thess.2, the apostle Paul is not talking about Judas as "the son of perdition", because Judas was already dead and gone. Paul is pointing the original "son of perdition", the one who has already been judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire, the devil himself.

The man of lawlessness (anomia)is not a who, but rather a whom. I believe Paul is referring to the same kind of people here that he mentioned in Timothy, godless individuals who follow after their own desires, fueled by the lie that they are a god unto themselves. I believe that is what Paul revealed to them previously, that evil men would get worse and worse and that this would culminate in their ultimate destruction at the Lord's coming. Paul's use of the word naos likens the human body to the temple of God and when the man of lawlessness sits in the innermost temple (the heart), he believes himself to BE GOD. He recognizes no other god, be it God or a false god.

I strongly disagree that Paul is referring to 'people' in the plural sense or to some movement by people who want to be God, but directly to the devil himself. What Paul mentioned in 2 Thess.2:3-4 about that certain Wicked one sitting in the Temple of God showing himself that he is God must be weighed in conjunction with our Lord's warning in Matthew 24 about the 'pseudochristos' (a false Christ), and the setting up of the "abomination of desolation" in the "holy place" (meaning inside a physical Temple, one in Jerusalem that the orthodox Jews are ready to build in our day). There's no reason to interpret that particular false one Paul mentions there as some false spiritual movement that people in general might practice. The only false spiritual movement it's about is those on the "strong delusion" falling away to worship a false one that comes according to the working of Satan, with all power and signs, and lying wonders (2 Thess.2:8-9). That's the same warning Christ gave in Matt.24 and Rev.13:11 forward about a false one that is to come doing miracles and wonders in the sight of men, all in order to cause as many as will to believe on him in place of God. The "strong delusion" is in believing on that false one in place of God, because of the great signs and wonders that fake one will work on the earth.

The man of lawlessness (anomia)is not a who, but rather a whom. I believe Paul is referring to the same kind of people here that he mentioned in Timothy, godless individuals who follow after their own desires, fueled by the lie that they are a god unto themselves. I believe that is what Paul revealed to them previously, that evil men would get worse and worse and that this would culminate in their ultimate destruction at the Lord's coming. Paul's use of the word naos likens the human body to the temple of God and when the man of lawlessness sits in the innermost temple (the heart), he believes himself to BE GOD. He recognizes no other god, be it God or a false god.

Matt 24: 24

For false christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders so as ato deceive if possible even the elect.

25 Se I have told you beforehand

26 Therefore if they say to you Look He is in the desert, do not go out or Look He is in the inner rooms, do not believe it

27 For as the lighting comes from the east and flashes to the west wso also will the coming of the Son of Man be