Jump to content
IGNORED

Don't Know if These Questions Have Been Answered Already


Seeking1

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  24
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   13
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/22/2014
  • Status:  Offline

I am testing the doctrine of whether or not Christians can have demons. I have some questions about this for both sides of the issue.

 

1.) Question for those who say Christians CANNOT have demons:

 

Why would the apostles cast demons out of people AT ALL if belief of the gospel alone would ALWAYS cause them to be removed immediately for SOLE habitation by the Holy Spirit? Remember, this is POST not PRE Pentecost. This isn't OT stuff or before Christ died on the cross for our sins. As many on both sides assert, it is pointless to try and remove demons from someone who refuses to believe the gospel or even misunderstands it somehow, as the demons will not only return later but also in greater numbers the second time around, making the last state worse than the first.

 

Since this is at least generally true, why would the apostles participate in and even promote such a thing? This would definitely lead to confusion, and God is not supposed to be the author of confusion. Why didn't the apostles simply share the gospel and leave the demons inside the unsaved? It could definitely lead to the idea of Christians being able to have them by doing such a thing rather than sharing the gospel alone. Exorcisms should be considered un-biblical in general then and even a hindrance to delivering the untainted gospel if ONLY the unsaved can have them.

 

2.) Question for those who say Christians CAN have demons:

 

Jesus said that people who have had demons cast out of them are "empty" vessels right before the demons are able to return. How can a Christian who has the Holy Spirit be "empty" so that a demon might possess them? This argument is often used as an apologetic against those who say Christians can have demons.

Edited by Seeking1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  16
  • Topic Count:  134
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  8,142
  • Content Per Day:  2.37
  • Reputation:   6,612
  • Days Won:  20
  • Joined:  11/02/2014
  • Status:  Offline

Why would the apostles cast demons out of people AT ALL if belief of the gospel alone would ALWAYS cause them to be removed immediately for SOLE habitation by the Holy Spirit?

Just as Christ healed "all manner of sickness and disease", He cast out demons.  We are not told whether each and everyone who was healed or freed from demons put their faith and trust in Him as Lord and Savior.  When the Lord sent out the apostles, it was on the same principle.  And all the miracles of Christ and the apostles were primarily to authenticate the Gospel message.  The issue of "sole habitation of the Holy Spirit" was not in view.

 

Remember, this is POST not PRE Pentecost. This isn't OT stuff or before Christ died on the cross for our sins.

 

It makes no difference whether it is pre- or post-Pentecost. Faith in Christ operated on either side, and people were saved on either side.

 

As many on both sides assert, it is pointless to try and remove demons from someone who refuses to believe the gospel or even misunderstands it somehow, as the demons will not only return later but also in greater numbers the second time around, making the last state worse than the first.

 

There is nothing in Scripture to state that only those who would believe the Gospel should have demons cast out of them. It is true that if a demonized person remained unsaved, his latter condition would be worse than his former condition, since that is what Christ taught.  But a prior commitment to believe the Gospel was never an issue.

 

Since this is at least generally true, why would the apostles participate in and even promote such a thing? This would definitely lead to confusion, and God is not supposed to be the author of confusion.

 

Since your assumptions are not supported by Scripture, this question is moot.

 

Why didn't the apostles simply share the gospel and leave the demons inside the unsaved?

 

How would that make sense, and how would these people be genuinely born-again with demons dwelling within?

 

It could definitely lead to the idea of Christians being able to have them by doing such a thing rather than sharing the gospel alone.

 

This does not compute.

 

Exorcisms should be considered un-biblical in general then and even a hindrance to delivering the untainted gospel if ONLY the unsaved can have them.

 

There seems to be some confusion in your mind about this subject. 

 

Just to reiterate, demonic possession occurs in the unsaved.  They must first be free of demons in order to truly believe the Gospel and be saved.  Those who genuinely repent and believe the Gospel are saved by grace and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.  Those who are born-again by the power of the Holy Spirit are children of God.  They cannot be possessed by demons, since "GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN US, THAN HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD" (1 Jn 4:4).

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  9
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  225
  • Content Per Day:  0.07
  • Reputation:   27
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/19/2015
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  02/29/1984

Great answer Ezra, there is not room inside a man for both the Holy Spirit and a demon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  34
  • Topic Count:  1,989
  • Topics Per Day:  0.49
  • Content Count:  48,687
  • Content Per Day:  11.89
  • Reputation:   30,342
  • Days Won:  226
  • Joined:  01/11/2013
  • Status:  Offline

Question: "Can a Christian be demon possessed? Can a Christian be demonized?"

Answer:
While the Bible does not explicitly state whether a Christian can be possessed by a demon, related biblical truths make it abundantly clear that Christians cannot be demon possessed. There is a distinct difference between being possessed by a demon and being oppressed or influenced by a demon. Demon possession involves a demon having direct/complete control over the thoughts and/or actions of a person (Matthew 17:14-18;Luke 4:33-35;8:27-33). Demon oppression or influence involves a demon or demons attacking a person spiritually and/or encouraging him/her into sinful behavior. Notice that in all the New Testament passages dealing with spiritual warfare, there are no instructions to cast a demon out of a believer (Ephesians 6:10-18). Believers are told to resist the devil (James 4:7;1 Peter 5:8-9), not to cast him out.

Christians are indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9-11;1 Corinthians 3:16;6:19). Surely the Holy Spirit would not allow a demon to possess the same person He is indwelling. It is unthinkable that God would allow one of His children, whom He purchased with the blood of Christ (1 Peter 1:18-19) and made into a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), to be possessed and controlled by a demon. Yes, as believers, we wage war with Satan and his demons, but not from within ourselves. The apostle John declares, “You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the One who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world” (1 John 4:4). Who is the One in us? The Holy Spirit. Who is the one in the world? Satan and his demons. Therefore, the believer has overcome the world of demons, and the case for demon possession of a believer cannot be made scripturally.

With the strong biblical evidence that a Christian cannot be demon possessed in view, some Bible teachers use the term “demonization” to refer to a demon having control over a Christian. Some argue that while a Christian cannot be demon possessed, a Christian can be demonized. Typically, the description of demonization is virtually identical to the description of demon possession. So, the same issue results. Changing the terminology does not change the fact that a demon cannot inhabit or take full control of a Christian. Demonic influence and oppression are realities for Christians, no doubt, but it is simply not biblical to say that a Christian can be possessed by a demon or demonized.

Much of the reasoning behind the demonization concept is the personal experience of seeing someone who was “definitely” a Christian exhibiting evidence of being controlled by a demon. It is crucially important, though, that we do not allow personal experience to influence our interpretation of Scripture. Rather, we must filter our personal experiences through the truth of Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Seeing someone whom we thought to be a Christian exhibiting the behavior of being demonized should cause us to question the genuineness of his/her faith. It should not cause us alter our viewpoint on whether a Christian can be demon possessed / demonized. Perhaps the person truly is a Christian but is severely demon oppressed and/or suffering from severe psychological problems. But again, our experiences must meet the test of Scripture, not the other way around.


Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-demon-possessed.html#ixzz3U0mERAXS

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  68
  • Topic Count:  185
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  14,204
  • Content Per Day:  3.35
  • Reputation:   16,629
  • Days Won:  30
  • Joined:  08/14/2012
  • Status:  Offline

20 years ago I corresponded with a missionary to Nigeria. Her husband had died but she stayed on at as missionary school teacher. She spoke of saved children that had no fear of voo doo or spells of evil shamens because they knew that Christ in them was greater. The spells and curses had no effect on them. They were completely free. I know that others argue with this, but it does make me wonder. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed!

Galatians 3:13-14 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, HAVING BECOME A CURSE FOR US (for it is written, cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the gentiles in Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So if He redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, it seems to me that He has redeemed us from all curses so that we might receive the Holy Spirit. A person must be delivered to be born again.

Likewise a person who is demon posessed it still in darkness and cannot have fellowship with the Father or other Christians. 1 John 1:6-7 NKJV

It is important to know the sword of the Spirit, the word of God. It is important to understand that Christ in us is greater than all the hatred and evil we may encounter. In Rev. 12:11 we are told that satan was overcome by the word of our testamony and the blood of the Lamb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest shiloh357

There is no New Testament evidence of a Christian being possessed by an evil spirit.  The Bible has to be the plumline on this matter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,373
  • Content Per Day:  0.76
  • Reputation:   683
  • Days Won:  22
  • Joined:  02/28/2012
  • Status:  Offline

 

2.) Question for those who say Christians CAN have demons:

 

Jesus said that people who have had demons cast out of them are "empty" vessels right before the demons are able to return. How can a Christian who has the Holy Spirit be "empty" so that a demon might possess them? This argument is often used as an apologetic against those who say Christians can have demons.

 

 

That is not exactly how Jesus put it.

 

What He actually said was this:

 

43“When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”  Matt 12

 

The emphasis is on the 'house' being unoccupied.  In other words, the person did not fill up on God.

 

I do not believe the Bible indicates that Christians are possessed.

 

But the Bible never states that the Holy Spirit cannot be in the presence of a demon.  If the Holy Spirit cannot be in the presence of a demon, then how is anyone ever

deliverd of a demon?

 

Demons can and do harrass Christians.  Read about the apostle Paul for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  24
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   13
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/22/2014
  • Status:  Offline

 

Why would the apostles cast demons out of people AT ALL if belief of the gospel alone would ALWAYS cause them to be removed immediately for SOLE habitation by the Holy Spirit?

Just as Christ healed "all manner of sickness and disease", He cast out demons.  We are not told whether each and everyone who was healed or freed from demons put their faith and trust in Him as Lord and Savior.  When the Lord sent out the apostles, it was on the same principle.  And all the miracles of Christ and the apostles were primarily to authenticate the Gospel message.  The issue of "sole habitation of the Holy Spirit" was not in view.

 

Remember, this is POST not PRE Pentecost. This isn't OT stuff or before Christ died on the cross for our sins.

 

It makes no difference whether it is pre- or post-Pentecost. Faith in Christ operated on either side, and people were saved on either side.

 

As many on both sides assert, it is pointless to try and remove demons from someone who refuses to believe the gospel or even misunderstands it somehow, as the demons will not only return later but also in greater numbers the second time around, making the last state worse than the first.

 

There is nothing in Scripture to state that only those who would believe the Gospel should have demons cast out of them. It is true that if a demonized person remained unsaved, his latter condition would be worse than his former condition, since that is what Christ taught.  But a prior commitment to believe the Gospel was never an issue.

 

Since this is at least generally true, why would the apostles participate in and even promote such a thing? This would definitely lead to confusion, and God is not supposed to be the author of confusion.

 

Since your assumptions are not supported by Scripture, this question is moot.

 

Why didn't the apostles simply share the gospel and leave the demons inside the unsaved?

 

How would that make sense, and how would these people be genuinely born-again with demons dwelling within?

 

It could definitely lead to the idea of Christians being able to have them by doing such a thing rather than sharing the gospel alone.

 

This does not compute.

 

Exorcisms should be considered un-biblical in general then and even a hindrance to delivering the untainted gospel if ONLY the unsaved can have them.

 

There seems to be some confusion in your mind about this subject. 

 

Just to reiterate, demonic possession occurs in the unsaved.  They must first be free of demons in order to truly believe the Gospel and be saved.  Those who genuinely repent and believe the Gospel are saved by grace and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.  Those who are born-again by the power of the Holy Spirit are children of God.  They cannot be possessed by demons, since "GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN US, THAN HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD" (1 Jn 4:4).

 

 

Thanks for your response, Ezra. How is the power of the gospel (good news not bad) being shown when demons are cast out of people who are not born again only to have them return later on and for the worse? Also, where in the Bible does it directly say that only those free of demons can respond to the gospel? 

 

Why didn't the apostles simply share the gospel and leave the demons inside the unsaved?

 

How would that make sense, and how would these people be genuinely born-again with demons dwelling within?

 

 

 

I think I wasn't clear enough in this statement. I meant to ask why the apostles would bother casting out demons of people who failed to properly believe the gospel. I asked why they wouldn't just preach the gospel and let the gospel work on its own. If they were born again, why not let the power of God alone cast the demon out automatically without the external, and even unnecessary, efforts on part of the apostles? If the person is born again under this premise, then the demons should be forced to leave immediately by the mere presence of God without any actions on part of the apostles at all.

 

Isn't casting the demons out first before salvation works-based? I thought it was Jesus plus nothing. 

Edited by Seeking1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest shiloh357

If Christians could be possessed by demons, the Bible would bear that out.  We would have examples of Christians being delivered from demon possession and we would have teaching to that effect in Scripture, but we have none of that.   So for anyone to teach that Christians can be possessed by demons, would mean that they have to leave the text of Scripture to do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Thallasa

I think Ezra, it can take a long time to divest of demons,and it certainly is the work of the Holy Spirit . It is not always like in films, a dramatic   horror event, but a process, whereby  as  the person makes  a relationship with  Jesus,  it becomes impossible for demons to stay .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...