>> Hannah << Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 164 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/06/1987 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Well, my best friend is Baptist and they believe that once saved always saved. My Baptist brothers and sisters who believe OSAS also believe that all you have to do to be saved is believe....... In my opinion this is a very dangerous couple of things to put into the same mind. Im a baptist... dont throw rocks at me please..... as you can see from my quotes above, i have noticed baptists havent got the best of names for themselves.... hmmm erm, a little confused here..... other one has said that baptists believe that all you have to do is believe, but in the bible doesnt it say "believe and be baptised" and isnt baptism a sign of showing you believe, and baptism a symbol of new life...have we as baptists taken this too literally, have we got to perfect ourselves before we can be saved.... or does god accept us as we are.... id like to know what else we have to do in order to be saved other than believe... now if here we are on about being saved from hell, then obviously we gotta stay on track... cos whether this be correct or not, i kinda take on board that if a person is going to say they believe but totally go against god, n i mean totally, cos we all go against gods will for our lives daily, but god can work with a willing heart cant he... im just really confused as to what as a baptist you are telling me i believe and not sure whether or not its right... i dont care if you tell me im wrong, i obviously need to know... or are we talking about being saved as in at the beginning of your walk with god, when youve accepted him as your lord and saviour.... is there something other than believing here that i dont know about... i know there is more to it than this but... surely once saved always saved is correct , no matter how much we mess up god will forgive us... and promises never to forsake us... no? Jesus died on the cross so that are sins were taken away and so that we could be saved and know eternal life... whats with this once saved always saved debate?? again, if were looking at whats going to happen when were judged at the gates of heaven. none of you know truly what god will do with you.... im a very confused miss muppet today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 My Baptist brothers and sisters who believe OSAS also believe that all you have to do to be saved is believe....... In my opinion this is a very dangerous couple of things to put into the same mind. It was gospel enough for Paulk and Silas: Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. One either surrenders to Christ or does not and if that surrnder is "conditional" in that the person concerned trully believes that at any point they can snatch back their life and reject God, the surrender is not complete, nor is it sufficient it. Is not belief, rather it is a submission without faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
>> Hannah << Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 164 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/06/1987 Share Posted May 18, 2006 One either surrenders to Christ or does not and if that surrnder is "conditional" in that the person concerned trully believes that at any point they can snatch back their life and reject God, the surrender is not complete, nor is it sufficient it. Is not belief, rather it is a submission without faith. so what you saying then.... whether or not a person is "once saved always saved" is up to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 no, what I'm saying that if someone believes they are submitting themselves to a salvation which they are ultimately responsable for redeeming, then they are not submitting themselves at all. However genuine and enthusiastic a commitment, the mentality is ultimately "I'll submit my life to you, but if I want my life back, I'm taking it" thats not submission its association. Hebrews teaches us that the New Covenant in Christ was declared for exactly this reason. The Israelites were left to constantly maintain their righteousness under God by repeated sacrifices, repeated baptisms, and by following the laws. While the Author maintains that because of our love and obedience for God we should seek to keep his commandments, he also explains that these are no longer the means by which God declares as righteous. Law and sacrifice is only acceptable when mixed with faith. That is why Christ made one sacrifice, once and for all, so that believing on it we have no need for repetition of sacrifice and our falling short of the law is covered even as we commit our offenses before God, because as God has declared the Old Covenant being of the flesh was not sufficient because man was not able to uphold such things by the power of the flesh. It is why Sacrifice, Obedience, Sanctification and righteousness can only come through faith by the word and works of God himself. No man can achieve it as God has shown us and declared to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
>> Hannah << Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 164 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/06/1987 Share Posted May 18, 2006 hmm, me thinks i shud try get my head round this stuff when im actually awake.... i think i get what your saying... you should separate what your saying lol, makes it easier to read. erm... so you believe in OSAS then? xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I am secure in Christ, despite my worst efforts at times, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
>> Hannah << Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 164 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/06/1987 Share Posted May 18, 2006 ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2006 OSAS is not an accurate description of the doctrine. It is more accurately and correctly called the "perseverance of the saints" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted May 18, 2006 This one's still up and going? I'll see y'all on page 150 when it's still going around in circles, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted May 18, 2006 do what you will And there in a nutshell lies my problem with "eternal security." I know that most folks don't buy into the "do what you will" argument, but it is NOT a license to sin as that would imply. I walked away from God as an early adult and completely turned my back on a Christian way of life; I know w/o one doubt had I have died, in Hell I would have lifted my eyes. I knew that in my spirit and still know it to this day. It is not as simple as saying "well he was never a Christian to begin with" because I know I was. On the other hand I don't think "losing" one's salvation is that easy; one little sin and "boom" you're cut off! Nope! I think that God will allow a person to go on with their own way knowing that eventually they will come back, just as I did. What if someone doesn't come back? I believe they have chosen to be placed out of God's protection. God will try to bring that person back but if they don't, then they are the ones who have to answer. In short, I don't believe in quote unquote "eternal security" in it's classic form. For those who believe in OSAS I sure hope it's true, lol, but I'm certainly not going to live my life thinking it is only to have a major shock! Edited for grammar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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