yomotalking Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,838 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1991 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I like your answer, Rons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.58 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2006 do what you will And there in a nutshell lies my problem with "eternal security." I know that most folks don't buy into the "do what you will" argument, but it is NOT a license to sin as that would imply. I walked away from God as an early adult and completely turned my back on a Christian way of life; I know w/o one doubt had I have died, in Hell I would have lifted my eyes. I knew that in my spirit and still know it to this day. It is not as simple as saying "well he was never a Christian to begin with" because I know I was. On the other hand I don't think "losing" one's salvation is that easy; one little sin and "boom" you're cut off! Nope! I think that God will allow a person to go on with their own way knowing that eventually they will come back, just as I did. What if someone doesn't come back? I believe they have chosen to be placed out of God's protection. God will try to bring that person back but if they don't, then they are the ones who have to answer. In short, I don't believe in quote unquote "eternal security" in it's classic form. For those who believe in OSAS I sure hope it's true, lol, but I'm certainly not going to live my life thinking it is only to have a major shock! Edited for grammar! The fact that an individual can abuse something does not invalidate a doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 eventually they will come back, just as I did. You found your way back?........... Fancy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted May 18, 2006 do what you will And there in a nutshell lies my problem with "eternal security." I know that most folks don't buy into the "do what you will" argument, but it is NOT a license to sin as that would imply. I walked away from God as an early adult and completely turned my back on a Christian way of life; I know w/o one doubt had I have died, in Hell I would have lifted my eyes. I knew that in my spirit and still know it to this day. It is not as simple as saying "well he was never a Christian to begin with" because I know I was. On the other hand I don't think "losing" one's salvation is that easy; one little sin and "boom" you're cut off! Nope! I think that God will allow a person to go on with their own way knowing that eventually they will come back, just as I did. What if someone doesn't come back? I believe they have chosen to be placed out of God's protection. God will try to bring that person back but if they don't, then they are the ones who have to answer. In short, I don't believe in quote unquote "eternal security" in it's classic form. For those who believe in OSAS I sure hope it's true, lol, but I'm certainly not going to live my life thinking it is only to have a major shock! Edited for grammar! The fact that an individual can abuse something does not invalidate a doctrine. Eric, I didn't intend to put it that way if I did. My point would moreso be that there are people who latch onto OSAS/eternal security when in fact they're not living for God to begin with. They erroneously think that they are okay. Trust me, Eric, I lean closer to eternal security than I do the wavering back and forth wandering if you've lost your salvation! I've been through the "wavering" early in my walk and NEVER would I go back again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2006 I was born and raised as a Pentacostal and we believe that you can backslid or fall from grace and you have to repent and ask for forgiveness. Well, my best friend is Baptist and they believe that once saved always saved. I am not saying that their beliefs are wrong but I was just wondering if some could post some scrpitures or say anything that would help me to understand the once saved always saved things. Thank you. I really didnt know where to post this so i help i posted it in the right place. Love in Christ, Dancin Please, I do not want to read through 21 pages OK... I did skim a little but it just seemed pretty long... so here is my 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted May 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2006 How about: "for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God." 1 Peter 1:23 Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted May 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2006 Amen Mark... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted May 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2006 OSAS is not an accurate description of the doctrine. It is more accurately and correctly called the "perseverance of the saints" As Eric very adequately points out, this is a proper rendetion of what is believed. Now, there is a OSAS belief out there, but it treats salvation as a pit stop and sanctification as a punch-line. True salvation, however, is a one time act through justification but an ongoing act through sanctification. Once we have been justified, we become new creations and go through a molding process. If ever this molding process ceases or if it does not begin, then we must question if it was truly occuring in the first place. This is what the Reformers were teaching. Though we cannot lose our justification (salvation), this does not give us freedom to sin in that we are to show this salvation in our lives. James is actually a wonderful book that illistrates this point. The entire first half of the book is dealing with how faith must be backed up by works. If we claim to have faith but have nothing to show for it, then what good is it? It's almost like seeing one of those shows where kids are starving on the television. Feeling sorry is a nice gesture...but until we do something about the problem, the feeling doesn't really matter. Faith is the same way. It's authentic, it's real, it's there...but that doesn't really matter if it's not helping anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted May 19, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2006 (edited) There are so many verses that tell us about our security in Christ. Why would anyone wish it otherwise. One other thought - Eternal security is no more a license to sin than believing that every time you sin you can just ask for forgiveness and be saved again. The believer is not the same as he was before regeneration. He is indwelt by the spirit of God who has sealed him and is sanctifying him. It is a work of God not a work of our own self. We are sinners, we do not stand a chance by ourselves. I agree with 1 John when it is said that those who are truly born again do not practice sin. They cannot. God would not allow it nor would true believers want to. The Spirit is within them compelling them to do good - a constant voice and force that is more powerful than the sin nature. Thanks for listening. Mark Jesus Edited May 19, 2006 by Mark777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Well Jesus will lose none that He calls and has known from before the beginning of time. There will however be many people who think that they have salvation that do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts