Once Saved always Saved?

[st. Worm]

As Smalcald seems to note, the doctrine of predestination is a biblical reality and obviously differs from mere foreknowledge of God since both are spoken of seperately and independently. However the fact that believers were predestined to be saved should not bring licentiousness, but instead comfort and gratitude that it is God who offers and provides our eternal security. That is the true reason God has disclosed this important doctrine to us.

To say our security rests in ourselves and our choices and not Christ brings no security at all. Further the Bible warns us on several occasions not to allow ourselves to fall away from the faith that we have been given. As has been noted before, those who are saved are saved entirely by God's grace. Those who are lost have no one to blame but themselves including those who reject the grace given to them.

[EricH]

The doctrine of the "Perseverance of the Saints" i smade up of the following premises:

1. That all true Christians will "persevere" in trusting Christ for their salvation.

2. That the perseverance of the saints depends on the perseverance of God.

3. That the perseverance of God "preserves" the saints. The saints are kept by God until the day of redemption.

4. Scriptural support:

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

John 6:29 NASB

and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 10:28-29 NASB

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 1:13-14 NASB

to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away,reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:4-5 NASB

Some traditional objections:

1. There are people who at one time in their lives profess faith in Christ, and then walk away

Answer - There are 2 possible explanations for this:

a. That these individuals were not really believers in teh first place. The scriptures are loaded with examples of people who say "Lord, Lord", but do not know him

b. That these are real believers who will eventually find their way back. The bible does not promise that our walk as believers will be a smooth one. Spurgeon compared it to a man on a boat during a storm. He said that the man could be knocked to the deck, but the ship is built in such a way that he can never fall over-board.

2. This doctrine will lead to abuses

All doctrines can potentially lead to abuses. The truth of a doctrine does not rise or fall on wheter or not people will abuse it to their own ends. The true doctrine of the perseverance of the saints states not only will they be preserved from eternity in hell, but that this eternal life begins know. Part of that eternal life is that they will persevere in their faith. That part of this eternal life that the believer is given is a new nature that now begins to struggle against the old. His desire will change from wanting to do what comes "naturally" to wanting to please God.

[Smalcald]

It could not lead to abuse for someone who had true faith in Christ. There are many people sitting in Churches, sitting in my own congregation who are not saved, although they feel very comfortable thinking that they know God, yet they do not have true faith in Christ alone as their Lord.

If I say I love my wife, and I know that she loves me, in fact I know that she loves me so much she would never divorce me regardless of what I do, if that knowledge leads me to then have sex with other women, relying on her grace, do I really love her, even though in my mind I think I do? This is an area that works can help us and lead us to faith in Christ and repentance. If I rely on the grace of Christ to sin willingly do I really love Christ, is that faith? No it is neither love nor faith, it is a false self delusional faith, based on myself and my own carnal thinking, this would play into the spiritual trap of planned repentance, which is not repentance and thus again shows a lack of faith in Christ.

I really don

[Mark777]

Being saved has its effects on the person. Before salvation one isn't indwelt by God himself. After salvation one is sealed by the Holy Spirit, kept by his power. The Scriptures show that it is an impossibility to revert back. Because in order to do so you would have to kick out the Spirit of God . I don't think so.

Mark

Edited May 19, 2006 by Mark777

[st. Worm]

quote:

"The Scriptures show that it is an impossibility to revert back. Because in order to do so you would have to kick out the Spirit of God . I don't think so."

But how do you interpret Hebrews 6:6? That seems to contradict your statement.

[Guest jckduboise]

quote:

"The Scriptures show that it is an impossibility to revert back. Because in order to do so you would have to kick out the Spirit of God . I don't think so."

But how do you interpret Hebrews 6:6? That seems to contradict your statement.

I most certainly does contradict. Seems to me it tells us that we can loose our salvation if we take on or continue to commit these sins.

[Guest NewPilgrim]

Someone might ask, "Well, do you ' believe in eternal security or not?" Yes, I believe in eternal security, but I believe what the Bible says about it, and that is, that it is conditional.

If its conditional, its not secure is it....

But how do you interpret Hebrews 6:6? That seems to contradict your statement.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 *if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner

[Guest jckduboise]

Someone might ask, "Well, do you ' believe in eternal security or not?" Yes, I believe in eternal security, but I believe what the Bible says about it, and that is, that it is conditional.

If its conditional, its not secure is it....

But how do you interpret Hebrews 6:6? That seems to contradict your statement.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 *if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner

NIV 6:4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have share the Holy Spirit,6:5who have tasted the goodness of the word or God and the powers of the coming age, 6 If thay fall away, to be brought back to repentance because of their loss they are crucifying the son of God all over again and subjectin Him to public disgrace.

[st. Worm]

Quote:

"Seems to me it tells us that we can loose our salvation if we take on or continue to commit these sins."

SW:

Actually, if indeed salvation can be lost, I think the issue is not continuance of sin. If that is the case then St. Paul is likely in Hell at this time and I will be joining him soon enough. That blessed saint called himself the chief of sinners and openly confessed he could not do that which he should and did that which he should not have. The real issue is not sin but rejection of faith revealed by lack of repentance and confession. While we Christians may be more enlightened sinners, being aware of what wretches we really are, we are still sinners nonetheless.

[Guest jckduboise]

Quote:

"Seems to me it tells us that we can loose our salvation if we take on or continue to commit these sins."

SW:

Actually, if indeed salvation can be lost, I think the issue is not continuance of sin. If that is the case then St. Paul is likely in Hell at this time and I will be joining him soon enough. That blessed saint called himself the chief of sinners and openly confessed he could not do that which he should and did that which he should not have. The real issue is not sin but rejection of faith revealed by lack of repentance and confession. While we Christians may be more enlightened sinners, being aware of what wretches we really are, we are still sinners nonetheless.

I agree...