The Revelation of Jesus. (Introduction 1: 1 - 8)

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn C and rollinTHUNDER.

 

 

 

Behold He is coming with clouds,
& every eye will see Him,
& they also who pierced Him.
And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so. Amen.

This corresponds with Matt. 24:29-31 (rapture).

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The rapture, when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Then the blindness of the tribes of Israel will be removed, and they will look up and know that their redemption draws near.

Cheers

 

Hi rollinTHUNDER,

So good to see your smiling face. Thank you for popping in & contributing. I hear your view on when the rapture occurs, but I wont get into that as there are many other threads on that topic. (Not that I thought you wanted to discuss that.) However I do see Matt. 24: 29 – 31 as the same events as Rev. 1: 7. That is something we can agree on.

Now I would like to bring out the next group of three, part of which you brought out.

`To Him who loved us & washed us from our sins in His own blood,
& has made us kings & priests to His God & Father,
to Him be glory & dominion for ever & ever. Amen.

Behold He is coming with clouds,
& every eye will see Him,
& they also who pierced Him.
And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so. Amen.` (Rev. 1: 5 – 7)

In this group of three I see, the Body of Christ, Israel & the nations.

1. The Body of Christ - `To Him who loved us & washed us from our sins in His own blood,
& has made us kings & priests to His God & Father,..`

2. Israel - `& they also who pierced Him. `

3. The Nations - `And all the tribes of the earth…`

God really packs a lot in a short space, doesn`t He, RH. Sometimes I think we can miss this when we don`t `smell the roses along the way.` Meaning that sometimes we can be busy reading chapters & not often meditating on the verse, if you know what I mean. Anyway, be blessed bro, in what God has called you to do & say.

Marilyn.

 

I would submit to you both that all three of these statements are about the children of Israel. Be extremely careful of quotations from the Tanakh (the OT). “Made us kings and priests” goes back to Exodus 19:5-6:

 

Exodus 19:5-6

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

KJV

 

“They who pierced Him” also goes back to Israel (as noted). See Zechariah 12:10 below.

 

“All the tribes of the earth” is a generalization of the passage in Zechariah 12:10-14:

 

Zechariah 12:10-14

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

KJV

 

The word in Hebrew here is “haa’aarets” and while it translates to "the earth” sometimes, it is better translated as "the land.” Specifically, it most often refers to "THE Land" (of Israel). The Greek word USED THE SAME WAY is “gee” (spelled gamma-eta and pronounced “gay”).

 

The Hebrew word for “family” is “mishpachah” (or “mishpachat” in the construct state), and its plural is “(ha)mishpaachowt." The word for “tribes” (NKJV) in Greek is “fulai,” from the word “fulee," and it means “clans.” It’s the same word used in Revelation 7:4 for the “tribes” (fulees”) of Israel.

 

I submit to you that “all the tribes of the earth” is a quotation from Zechariah 12:12 and it means “all the families of the Land (of Israel)!"

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

 

Thank you for your view.

 

Marilyn.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Behold He is coming with clouds,

& every eye will see Him,

& they also who pierced Him.

And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so. Amen.

This corresponds with Matt. 24:29-31 (rapture).

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The rapture, when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Then the blindness of the tribes of Israel will be removed, and they will look up and know that their redemption draws near.

Cheers

Hi rollinTHUNDER,

So good to see your smiling face. Thank you for popping in & contributing. I hear your view on when the rapture occurs, but I wont get into that as there are many other threads on that topic. (Not that I thought you wanted to discuss that.) However I do see Matt. 24: 29 – 31 as the same events as Rev. 1: 7. That is something we can agree on.

 

Hi Marilyn,

You won't get into when the rapture occurs, because you have been led to believe it happens sometime before Daniel's 70th week begins, is that correct? I used to believe that too, but you should know that Christ laid it all out, without concealing anything. He did not call it the rapture, though. He called it the appearing of the sign of the Son of man, when He will come in the clouds, and then send His angels to gather His elect, which is where much confusion begins for many believers. Many are told that this is His physical second coming to the earth, even though scripture does not indicate He ever touches down after gathering the elect in the clouds. Most people simply assume this is referring to His second coming, and they ignore the rest of His answer in Matthew chapter 25, which is where He mentions the second coming. It seems that many don't want to get into this, because they want to keep holding on to their false hope of a pre-trib rapture, which is not found anywhere in God's Word. And it's not like Jesus failed to mention it, because He laid it all out, which includes both, the rapture as we call it today and His second coming. Verse 31 is key in both chapters.

Matt. 24:31 = Rapture

Matt. 25:31 = Second coming

These are both judgments. His judgment begins with the righteous (1 Pet. 4:17-18), and ends with the nations or sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-46). The following passage includes both of these judgments.

Revelation 11:18

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (them which destroy the earth = goats)

 

 

Now I would like to bring out the next group of three, part of which you brought out.

`To Him who loved us & washed us from our sins in His own blood,

& has made us kings & priests to His God & Father,

to Him be glory & dominion for ever & ever. Amen.

Behold He is coming with clouds,

& every eye will see Him,

& they also who pierced Him.

And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so. Amen.` (Rev. 1: 5 – 7)

In this group of three I see, the Body of Christ, Israel & the nations.

1. The Body of Christ - `To Him who loved us & washed us from our sins in His own blood,

& has made us kings & priests to His God & Father,..`

2. Israel - `& they also who pierced Him. `

3. The Nations - `And all the tribes of the earth…`

God really packs a lot in a short space, doesn`t He, RH. Sometimes I think we can miss this when we don`t `smell the roses along the way.` Meaning that sometimes we can be busy reading chapters & not often meditating on the verse, if you know what I mean. Anyway, be blessed bro, in what God has called you to do & say.

Marilyn.

Many that believe in a so-called pre-trib rapture, also believe He will come in secret, even though there's no scripture that supports that either. False hope is much like wishful thinking, but many don't seem to realize that they are only setting themselves up for a rude awakening. Either we want to know the truth or we don't. It's not going to happen according to our beliefs, but according to the fulfilling of His Word, whether we believe it or not, and whether we are ready or not.

Every eye will see Him, so it won't be done in secret. Every believer who is ready when He appears will meet Him in the clouds, and those left on the earth will see the greatest event in the history of the world. It will be no secret. Israel's blindness will be ended at that time, as the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (Rom. 11:25).

Every eye will see this event, as He said His coming would be like lightning coming from east to and shining even to the west (Matt. 24:27). So every eye will see, even the Jews or them who pierced Him. Then the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. This includes the Jews in the Promised Land, and the tribes of Israel which are still scattered in the nations of the world. Notice He did not say every kindred, tongue and nation, but only the tribes of the earth, which are the Jews who pierced Him that will mourn. Their eyes will be wide open at that time, and their blindness will be no more. They will look up and know their redemption is near, right at the door, and they will repent.

Zechariah 10:6-12

“I will strengthen the house of Judah,

And I will save the house of Joseph.

I will bring them back,

Because I have mercy on them.

They shall be as though I had not cast them aside;

For I am the Lord their God,

And I will hear them.

7 Those of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man,

And their heart shall rejoice as if with wine.

Yes, their children shall see it and be glad;

Their heart shall rejoice in the Lord.

8 I will whistle for them and gather them,

For I will redeem them;

And they shall increase as they once increased.

9 “I will sow them among the peoples,

And they shall remember Me in far countries;

They shall live, together with their children,

And they shall return.

10 I will also bring them back from the land of Egypt,

And gather them from Assyria.

I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon,

Until no more room is found for them.

11 He shall pass through the sea with affliction,

And strike the waves of the sea:

All the depths of the River shall dry up.

Then the pride of Assyria shall be brought down,

And the scepter of Egypt shall depart.

12 “So I will strengthen them in the Lord,

And they shall walk up and down in His name,”

Says the Lord.

Zechariah 12:10-11

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. 11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.

The rapture can not occur before Daniel's 70th week, because that event will be the end of Israel's blindness. And if their blindness is removed before Daniel's 70th week, then they will not receive the one who is prophesied to come in his own name. Therefore, this is another reason the rapture occurs after the tribulation of those days (Matt. 24:29).

Unfortunately, many have placed their faith in this false hope and they will not be prepared to endure until the end. If people are going to put all of their eggs into the pre-trib basket, I would hope that they are hoping for the best, but at least preparing for the worst. If not, I see a very rude awakening coming for them. The very first thing Christ told His disciple's who questioned Him about the sign of His coming was to not let anyone deceive them. But many have been taught that they will be out of harms way before anything bad happens. I hope many will start waking up, because we are about to enter perilous times and it will test our faith. Christ said that the love of many will grow cold, and Paul said there will come a falling away and the abomination of desolation before our gathering (2 Thes. 2:1-4). Christ also warned that He will vomit the lukewarm out of His mouth as well, so only His faithful servants will be ready, and again, this is not a pre-trib gathering. There will be no such thing.

Cheers

[Marilyn C]

Hi rollinTHUNDER,

 

Thank you also for your view & thoughts. I will not get into a pre-mid-post trib. discussion here as it would take us off track from focussing on the unveiling of our Lord as He is known in the heavenly realms. As we know there are many threads on that topic, so I will try & keep focussed on discussing descriptions of our Lord.

 

Blessings bro, Marilyn.

[Hippie333]

Closed at OP's request.

[Leonardo Von]

On 5/25/2015 at 0:29 AM, Spock said:

This part encourages me greatly....

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom (I think king may be a better translation) and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

He has made us kings and priests to serve God his father.....

I'm not sure I understand this verse. I never thought I would be a king or a priest......

 

On 5/25/2015 at 4:34 AM, Marilyn C said:

What a wonderful truth to point out - `kings & priests.

Hi, Spock and Marilyn,

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ

 

In former times, the people were forbidden of arriving to God. To resolve this:

 

o   The priest gets in the presence of the Eternal to offer the sacrifices which were required of the people.

o   The prophet analyzes the ongoing problems and go to the Eternal to intercede for someone or for the nation, to hear the voice of the Eternal and come to announce the will of the Eternal to the people, but without oblige, legally, to this obedience.

o   The judge didn’t legislate, but executed the law received from the prophets.

o   The king gets out of the presence of the prophet (which was the spokesperson of the Eternal – see Exodus 7.1) to lead the people to accomplish the law received of the mouth of the Eternal (at least was thus that should be). Yet, the king had power to legislate. He could choice between to follow the Eternal’s law given by prophets or to make his own laws.

 

Jesus, as perfect High Priest and King of kings carry out, in special, the three offices (and will perform the fourth): He goes to the Father to beseech for us (priest) and come to us to reveal us His will (prophet) and to make of it a law in our life (king).

Nevertheless, Jesus wasn’t the superman that gather inside Himself the three ministries. He draws us near to the Father that dwell within Him (John 14.6), allows the Father to speak directly with us (John 16.26,27) and, then, able us to perform His will (Philippians 2.12,13).

By making us His body, beyond us having free admittance to the presence of the Eternal (in a level deeper than an Old Testament prophet), we also turn into:

 

o   PRIEST (Revelation 1.6): one that brings people to us so that they see the Father;

o   PRIESTHOOD (1Peter 2.9): we are the ministry of those who believe, that is, the gifts and talents that able the believers to act like priests;

o   KING (Revelation 5.10): one that reins over the sin (Romans 5.17) and serves as example (see 1Corinthians 11.1) to all creation (as it was originally at Genesis 1.28);

o   KINGDOM (Matthew 6.10; Luke 17.20,21): we are the place where believers can find people to whom to minister (see 2Corinthians 3.1-3).

 

[Leonardo Von]

On 5/24/2015 at 10:53 PM, Marilyn C said:

What is something that you see of our precious Lord, from the Introduction of Revelation 1: 1 – 8?

Hi Marilyn,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

I would like of share some likeness between chapter one and chapter four of Revelation, as well as the likeness between the experience of the rapture lived by John and the one that will be lived by Church.

First of all, let us compare the rapture of those who believe in Jesus and the spiritual rapture of John:

 

Rapture of the Church (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)	Rapture of John (Revelation 4:1)
At the end of the Church's age	At the end of the seven letters to the Church.
The voice of the archangel calls the elects	Jesus calls John up
Trumpet of the Eternal	Voice as of a trumpet
Church is on earth	John is on earth
Immediate Rapture	Immediately John stayed in the spirit
Church taken to the presence of the Eternal.	John is taken to the presence of Jesus.

 

Now let's make a parallel between chapters one and four of Revelation:

 

Revelation 4	Revelation 1
4:1 - It was the first voice, like a trumpet.	1:10 - And he heard a great voice like a trumpet.
4:2 - John was in the spirit.	1:10 - John was in the spirit.
4:2-3 - Description of the Father	1:12-17 - Description of Christ
4:5 - Seven torches of fire	1:12 - Seven golden candlesticks
4:5 - Before the throne are seven spirits of the Eternal.	1:4 - John writes from the seven spirits who stand before the throne
4:4; 5:10 - The Lord made kings and priests of the Church.	1:6 - The Lord made kings and priests of the Church.
4:1 - I will show you the things that after these things must come to pass.	1:19 - Write the things that you have seen, and the things that are, and the things that are to be done after these things;
5:1-5 - An Introduction to the Seven Seals	1:20 - An introduction to the seven oholyao.

 

With such similarity, it concludes itself that the chapter "one" was an introduction to the things that were in the time of John (referring to the 7 oholyao) and chapters four and five, an introduction to things that would happen at 7 oholyao (group of brothers Jesus meets to get to know Him better) next.

Although the Apocalypse will come to have a literal fulfillment, it is written in symbols to communicate a message to His Church now. The book of Revelation is the life of all who believe. Hence it is so blessed who reads, hears, and keeps the words of the Apocalypse. After all, just so to know:

 

•      Who is Jesus;

•      Who we are, what Jesus wants from us and for us, and what is the meaning of everything we are going through;

•      What is to happen in our life and how we should deal with it all.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Leonardo,

Some really good thoughts there bro. I like the way you set it out too.

Just one point of difference. I believe Rev. 4 show the Lord Jesus Christ enthroned on His throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame & sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

In Rev. 5: 1 we see that it is the Father who is giving this authority to the son. We cannot `see` the trinity, however the closest we can understand is the pictorial representation of the Lamb in the midst of the throne. (Rev. 5: 6) This representation shows the closeness of the Father & Son & who is giving this authority, (throne). 

The Father`s throne is beyond all created realms & that is where the Son ascended to  - His right hand. Then when the Father sends the Son for the Body of Christ then we will escort Him to His own throne, His own authority given by the Father. The Son of God in His glorified body is then visible to the Body of Christ who are then seated (as you said) around His throne, ruling & reigning with Him as kingpriests. 

The inauguration of the Son of God to the highest place in the third heaven will be the crowning moment for all to see - He alone is worthy of such honour.

regards, Marilyn.