How often shall we forgive?

[WayneB]

On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2015 at 5:33 AM, George said:

The first question we need to address is how much is 10,000 talents?  In layman's terms it's about $3 billion dollars. 

The second question that arises is how much is a 100-denarii?  It's about $3 dollars!

 

The currency numbers I reference are a bit different but the message is the same.  I went one extra step...to put it in terms of time.  Matthew 20 verse 2 indicates that one denarius is equal to a day's wage.  Therefore, using your currency rates, the 10,000 talents is equal to 100 million years or 1.4 million lifetimes!!!  ...a lot more than 7 x 70 years!!!  Forgiveness is emphasized in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.   We cannot have a relationship with Him if we refuse to forgive and love our enemies.  A child of God has had ALL sins forgiven by FAITH in Jesus Christ.  “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” [Romans 5:8]   Therefore, whenever anyone sins against us, we must be willing to forgive them from the heart, NOT just with words, no matter how many times they offend!   The Greek word "aphesis" means forgiveness but it is used to translate both deliverance (freedom) and liberty (release).  The point is we find deliverance and liberty when we willingly forgive others!  You can't place a limit on that!

[Behold]

On 4/30/2016 at 5:14 PM, *Deidre* said:

We're to always forgive, but that doesn't mean we keep accepting people into our lives who don't try to change their hurtful behaviors. 

Exactly.

Forgiveness does not require of us  to present ourself a living sacrifice for someone to abuse over and over.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Behold

[KPaulG]

Jesus did not say that we should forgive each person no more than 490 times.

[Sing40King]

Foregiveness is probably one of the most important lessons in Christian life. Both foregiving others and asking foregiveness when you have been wrong. Myself, if I'm mad at somebody for doing something I didn't like even if they didn't know it, I can't sleep, I feel guilty inside until I have foregiven them. It's the same when I have offended someone else. I have to apologize and ask forgiveness to have peace. The Bible does say that to be foregiven we have to foregive others.

[Neighbor]

 To all -Hello,

Forgive? Yes, of course. But....

Are we to also forget transgressions, perhaps walking back into the same buzzsaw of conflict again and again? Do we get hacked up seven times seventy-endlessly for the sake of  trying to be obedient to  our Lord's command?

And,  does God use even  conflict and dissension to better spread the Gospel of Jesus?

Perhaps, perhaps not. What of the conflict between Paul and Barnabas ( Reference-Acts 15:39 ) that led to their splitting  up and journeying separately, all because of the  perceived failure of Mark ( John called Mark), least in Paul's assessment of him?

As a result of discord and lack of forgiveness perhaps ( Least to me it seems Paul did not have forgiveness  for John called Mark), there  was a doubling of the effort to spread the Word as two separate sets of travelers went about as result. Later there was evidently a reuniting. But in the meantime even discord seems to have served the good purposes of God.

 

If this application is valid to the principle then,  can we conclude that despite the failing of men to forgive again and again, that God will be sovereign and His will is done? If that is so  then can we recover from our failures to  forgive, the recovery coming about at the good timing of our creator?

Or is it a misapplication of the principle of the command to forgive ever endlessly?

Did God have Paul reject John called Mark, making Paul stubborn to the point he and Barnabas split up and then went separately on their upcoming juorney, all over the failure of Mark?

Is the principle absolute in all circumstance? Forgive whatever transgression occurs as often as it occurs. Or is there a touch of Reaganesque  caution allowed when forgiving?- "Trust but verify".

 

Fuller text from Acts 15:  ..."36 And after some days Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us return and visit nthe brothers qin every city where we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are.” 37 Now Barnabas wanted to take with them rJohn called Mark. 38 But Paul thought best not to take with them one swho had withdrawn from them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. 39 And there arose ta sharp disagreement, so that they separated from each other. uBarnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and departed, vhaving been commended by wthe brothers to xthe grace of the Lord. 41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, ystrengthening the churches."

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Neighbor

[KPaulG]

On 12/9/2016 at 4:52 AM, Neighbor said:

 To all -Hello,

Forgive? Yes, of course. But....

Are we to also forget transgressions, perhaps walking back into the same buzzsaw of conflict again and again? Do we get hacked up seven times seventy-endlessly for the sake of  trying to be obedient to  our Lord's command?

And,  does God use even  conflict and dissension to better spread the Gospel of Jesus?

Perhaps, perhaps not. What of the conflict between Paul and Barnabas ( Reference-Acts 15:39 ) that led to their splitting  up and journeying separately, all because of the  perceived failure of Mark ( John called Mark), least in Paul's assessment of him?

As a result of discord and lack of forgiveness perhaps ( Least to me it seems Paul did not have forgiveness  for John called Mark), there  was a doubling of the effort to spread the Word as two separate sets of travelers went about as result. Later there was evidently a reuniting. But in the meantime even discord seems to have served the good purposes of God.

 

If this application is valid to the principle then,  can we conclude that despite the failing of men to forgive again and again, that God will be sovereign and His will is done? If that is so  then can we recover from our failures to  forgive, the recovery coming about at the good timing of our creator?

Or is it a misapplication of the principle of the command to forgive ever endlessly?

Did God have Paul reject John called Mark, making Paul stubborn to the point he and Barnabas split up and then went separately on their upcoming juorney, all over the failure of Mark?

Is the principle absolute in all circumstance? Forgive whatever transgression occurs as often as it occurs. Or is there a touch of Reaganesque  caution allowed when forgiving?- "Trust but verify".

 

Fuller text from Acts 15:  ..."36 And after some days Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us return and visit nthe brothers qin every city where we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are.” 37 Now Barnabas wanted to take with them rJohn called Mark. 38 But Paul thought best not to take with them one swho had withdrawn from them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. 39 And there arose ta sharp disagreement, so that they separated from each other. uBarnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and departed, vhaving been commended by wthe brothers to xthe grace of the Lord. 41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, ystrengthening the churches."

 

Amen. I agree.

[KPaulG]

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 0:06 AM, Cletus said:

Brace yourself, here it comes... matt 7:2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
 

so i say, Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.  What if God said Cletus, i am not going to forgive you for that? 

A part of forgiveness isn't for the other person(duty, responsibility) it is for us.  if we harbor unforgiveness it grows into bitterness in our heart.  no one likes bitter.

And eternity is a long time to hold on to something like that.

Amen. If we don't forgive we won't be forgiven 

[Radiant_Owl]

As I see it even when invoking the example of the father's forgiveness of us, we can't say we must meet the same standard as if our forgiveness should be infinite. Because the father's isn't. Not really. He's willing to forgive us until we end dying in unrepentant sins. Then it is too late. And we reap the consequences.

Therefore, I think in human models we should forgive as much as we can. Until or unless the person that re-offends demonstrates they're not really contrite. But rather enjoy more putting us through hell because they think we'll always be there forgiving. Which to them can mean giving them permission to keep abusing us in whatever way.

[KPaulG]

1 hour ago, Radiant_Owl said:

As I see it even when invoking the example of the father's forgiveness of us, we can't say we must meet the same standard as if our forgiveness should be infinite. Because the father's isn't. Not really. He's willing to forgive us until we end dying in unrepentant sins. Then it is too late. And we reap the consequences.

Therefore, I think in human models we should forgive as much as we can. Until or unless the person that re-offends demonstrates they're not really contrite. But rather enjoy more putting us through hell because they think we'll always be there forgiving. Which to them can mean giving them permission to keep abusing us in whatever way.

I agree with you. Forgiveness does not mean permission to treat someone harshly

[Reinitin]

I know we are to forgive. Sometimes it is not easy. Sometimes you have to admit to the Lord you can't. Alot of the things the Lord has called us to do, many people just can't do and some walk away with great sorrow. But, the good news is even when we can not Jesus can. Some times we have to reach out in faith knowing the power to forgive isnt in us. 

In my own walk i had a horrible struggle with unforgiveness. I really faught the Lords command  in my mind from the wound deep in my soul. Wonderful councelor argued with me to no end. One day mourning with tears what had been stolen from me. Holy Spirit started councel in my mind. What have you Lost that can not be replaced? I thought on it. Again in my mind. How could anything ruin your life and stop you from being what I have made you to be? I thought on it. At the moment of His intrusion  i was frustrated because i was trying to take the box blade off my tractor and switch to the brush hog and mow. A person i believed to be a brother in Christ and that i was married to 30 years had taken every thing of value that was not titled to my ministry and ran off with another women while i was fighting for my life. He didnt even leave a hammer. And i was hitting the box blade with a board trying to get the pin out. I was crying my eyes out beating the heck out of the pin and i just crumpled to the ground in frustration when the board broke. Then i heard again in my mind? What has been taken from you i can't replace? I answered in defeat. "Nothing my Lord, I'm so angry Lord i cant forgive him. I know i need to forgive, i want to obey Lord, but i can't Help me forgive him Lord." 

I didnt know a christian brother was also receiving councel. He was at home packing his belongings and leaving the next day to start a missionary in Ireland. His wife was already in Ireland getting things started. He was a mechanic and a handy man and had his truck full of tools but the cost of shipping them to Ireland was so High. He was asking the Lord what should I do with them?

I had never met him before this Day but he had heard of my trouble and my horses and my ministry.

He had looked up where my ranch is. I walked up from the pasture where i fighting with the box blade and the Lord, rounded the corner and saw a loaded truck out side my gate and a strange man standing by it. He told me his name and about his ministry in Ireland and his leaving. Said" i just had in my heart to gives these tools to you. I said ok. Thinking one of the boxes were tools and i thanked him and the Lord because i thought he provides me with a hammer so i could mow.

It was everything in the Truck.  Saws, compressors, full sets of wrenches, ratchets, pliers, wire cutters, grinders, shovels, rakes, hammers, sledge hammers, hammer drills. We just kept unloading the truck and the tools. I just kept crying my eyes out. He shook my hand when we were done. We prayed for one anothers ministries and he left. 

I didnt have any words i think I was in shock. Then in my mind i thought, nothing was taken that you cant replace. Lord Thank you. He hasnt stopped me from being what youe making me to be or stopped me from doing anything you calles me to do. I was healed never have had an angry thought or hurt heart about my x husband since.

He doesnt expect everyone with every hurt to obey in flesh. Just pretend like we obey when our hearts full of anger our bitterness isnt forgiveness. He does help when we confess to him our weakness and our desire to obey.

Hope this will me a help to someone struggling some day.