angels4u Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Did anybody read or seen the video of Enoch? I know it is not in the Bible ..if anybody read it before please let me know what you think of it as I,m debating to watch the video online... From what I heard and seen so far..it is interesting .. Years ago, I got the book of Enoch and started reading it. Holy Spirit told me to throw it away, so I did. I didn't get that deep into it to say whats in it, but I can say that the fruit from the ones who do get into the book of Enoch is not good. I've seen many people get on a prideful spiritual high, fall into some crazy false doctrines, separate themselves from the body of Christ through reading that book and taking it as scripture. . Thank you Joshua for your opinion about this Why would people get prideful after reading it, does it add to the Bible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Did anybody read or seen the video of Enoch? I know it is not in the Bible ..if anybody read it before please let me know what you think of it as I,m debating to watch the video online... From what I heard and seen so far..it is interesting .. Years ago, I got the book of Enoch and started reading it. Holy Spirit told me to throw it away, so I did. I didn't get that deep into it to say whats in it, but I can say that the fruit from the ones who do get into the book of Enoch is not good. I've seen many people get on a prideful spiritual high, fall into some crazy false doctrines, separate themselves from the body of Christ through reading that book and taking it as scripture. . Thank you Joshua for your opinion about this Why would people get prideful after reading it, does it add to the Bible.. It does add to the bible and should not be taken as scripture. I know mormons hold it as one of their writings. Pride and deception go hand in hand. When people believe they have special knowledge or revelation, they get prideful and because they think they have a higher revelation than others, they are not open to correction and they separate from anyone who disagrees with them. I've seen this happen many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Did anybody read or seen the video of Enoch? I know it is not in the Bible ..if anybody read it before please let me know what you think of it as I,m debating to watch the video online... From what I heard and seen so far..it is interesting .. Years ago, I got the book of Enoch and started reading it. Holy Spirit told me to throw it away, so I did. I didn't get that deep into it to say whats in it, but I can say that the fruit from the ones who do get into the book of Enoch is not good. I've seen many people get on a prideful spiritual high, fall into some crazy false doctrines, separate themselves from the body of Christ through reading that book and taking it as scripture. . Thank you Joshua for your opinion about this Why would people get prideful after reading it, does it add to the Bible.. It does add to the bible and should not be taken as scripture. I know mormons hold it as one of their writings. Pride and deception go hand in hand. When people believe they have special knowledge or revelation, they get prideful and because they think they have a higher revelation than others, they are not open to correction and they separate from anyone who disagrees with them. I've seen this happen many times. Interesting Joshua,I searched Mormons and the book of Enoch on Google and there are tons of results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,073 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,823 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 Did anybody read or seen the video of Enoch? I know it is not in the Bible ..if anybody read it before please let me know what you think of it as I,m debating to watch the video online... From what I heard and seen so far..it is interesting .. Years ago, I got the book of Enoch and started reading it. Holy Spirit told me to throw it away, so I did. I didn't get that deep into it to say whats in it, but I can say that the fruit from the ones who do get into the book of Enoch is not good. I've seen many people get on a prideful spiritual high, fall into some crazy false doctrines, separate themselves from the body of Christ through reading that book and taking it as scripture. . I find that interesting that you can call something anathema that you haven't read. I find it further interesting that the Holy Spirit tells you not to read it and tells me to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 Did anybody read or seen the video of Enoch? I know it is not in the Bible ..if anybody read it before please let me know what you think of it as I,m debating to watch the video online... From what I heard and seen so far..it is interesting .. Years ago, I got the book of Enoch and started reading it. Holy Spirit told me to throw it away, so I did. I didn't get that deep into it to say whats in it, but I can say that the fruit from the ones who do get into the book of Enoch is not good. I've seen many people get on a prideful spiritual high, fall into some crazy false doctrines, separate themselves from the body of Christ through reading that book and taking it as scripture. . Thank you Joshua for your opinion about this Why would people get prideful after reading it, does it add to the Bible.. The book of Enoch does add to the bible. It supposedly explains some things further. I would call the pride more having to do with a form gnosticism. Those who read it think they have found hidden knowledge that most of the church does not have because they do not read the book of Enoch. The book of Enoch was not written by Enoch as it was written at a much later date. It claims to be written by Enoch, and discusses fallen angels going in with daughters of men and having children who were giants. That is from the bible, but the book of Enoch adds a lot to come up with a story of what happened in more detail. It is not biblical at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,073 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,823 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 Did anybody read or seen the video of Enoch? I know it is not in the Bible ..if anybody read it before please let me know what you think of it as I,m debating to watch the video online... From what I heard and seen so far..it is interesting .. Years ago, I got the book of Enoch and started reading it. Holy Spirit told me to throw it away, so I did. I didn't get that deep into it to say whats in it, but I can say that the fruit from the ones who do get into the book of Enoch is not good. I've seen many people get on a prideful spiritual high, fall into some crazy false doctrines, separate themselves from the body of Christ through reading that book and taking it as scripture. . Thank you Joshua for your opinion about this Why would people get prideful after reading it, does it add to the Bible.. It does add to the bible and should not be taken as scripture. I know mormons hold it as one of their writings. Pride and deception go hand in hand. When people believe they have special knowledge or revelation, they get prideful and because they think they have a higher revelation than others, they are not open to correction and they separate from anyone who disagrees with them. I've seen this happen many times. In my personal experience the person who accepts Enoch is not the one who separates from ones that disagree with him/her, just the opposite that the people who accept nothing but the canon as reality separate themselves from those of us who think the things in the book are true for the most part. As for being word breathed by God, I know very few people who believe that........ there are many writings that contain truths that are not part of the Bible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,073 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,823 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 The following is a compilation of attestations to the authenticity and acceptance of the Book of Enoch as Scripture by the fathers of the early church. This list is, by no means, an exhaustive list of quotations from the church fathers, but is rather just skimming of the surface. At any rate, the case is clear, that even beyond Jude’s open reference to it, the Book of Enoch had some degree of acceptance in early Christianity. Tertullian and the Book of Enoch Tertullian, an early church father and founder of Latin Christianity, wrote a few positive things concerning the Book of Enoch. Tertulian writes as follows in his 2nd century work, On the Apparel of Women I 3:1-3. “I am aware that the Scripture of Enoch, which has assigned this order of action to angels, is not received by some, because it is not admitted into the Jewish canon either. I suppose they did not think that, having been published before the deluge, it could have safely survived that world-wide calamity, the abolisher of all things. If that is the reason for rejecting it, let them recall to their memory that Noah, the survivor of the deluge, was the great-grandson of Enoch himself; and he, of course, had heard and remembered, from domestic renown and hereditary tradition, concerning his own great-grandfather’s ‘grace in the sight of God,’ (Genesis 6:8) and concerning all his preachings; since Enoch had given no other charge to Methuselah than that he should hand on the knowledge of them to his posterity. Noah therefore, no doubt, might have succeeded in the trusteeship of his preaching; or, had the case been otherwise, he would not have been silent alike concerning the disposition of things made by God, his Preserver, and concerning the particular glory of his own house. “If Noah had not had this conservative power by so short a route, there would still be this consideration to warrant our assertion of the genuineness of this Scripture: he could equally have renewed it, under the Spirit’s inspiration, after it had been destroyed by the violence of the deluge, as, after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonian storming of it, every document of the Jewish literature is generally agreed to have been restored through Ezra. “But since Enoch in the same Scripture has preached likewise concerning the Lord, nothing at all must be rejected by us which pertains to us; and we read that ‘every Scripture suitable for edification is divinely inspired.’ (2 Timothy 3:16) By the Jews it may now seem to have been rejected for that very reason, just like all the other portions nearly which tell of Christ. Nor, of course, is this fact wonderful, that they did not receive some Scriptures which spake of Him whom even in person, speaking in their presence, they were not to receive. To these considerations is added the fact that Enoch possesses a testimony in the Apostle Jude.” (Jude 1:14-15) Origen and the Book of Enoch Origen appeals to the Book of Enoch as having the same canonical authority as he does the Book of Psalms. He writes as follows in De Principiis IV. “But some one will perhaps inquire whether we can obtain out of Scripture any grounds for such an understanding of the subject. Now I think some such view is indicated in the Psalms, when the prophet says, ‘My eyes have seen your imperfection;’ (Psalm 139:16) by which the mind of the prophet, examining with keener glance the first principles of things, and separating in thought and imagination only between matter and its qualities, perceived the imperfection of God, which certainly is understood to be perfected by the addition of qualities. Enoch also, in his book, speaks as follows: ‘I have walked on even to imperfection;’ which expression I consider may be understood in a similar manner, viz., that the mind of the prophet proceeded in its scrutiny and investigation of all visible things, until it arrived at that first beginning in which it beheld imperfect matter existing without ‘qualities.’ For it is written in the same book of Enoch, ‘I beheld the whole of matter;’ which is so understood as if he had said: ‘I have clearly seen all the divisions of matter which are broken up from one into each individual species either of men, or animals, or of the sky, or of the sun, or of all other things in this world.’” These quotations which he attributes to Enoch are not found in the Ethiopic text of the Book of Enoch, upon which our modern translations are based. There are, however, two sufficient reasons to believe that Origen is still quoting from the Book of Enoch. First, notice how Origen mishandled Psalm 139:16, “My eyes have seen your imperfection,” as if to indicate that God had imperfections which could be seen. Psalm 139:16 is more accurately translated, “Mine unformed substance Thine eyes saw.” (YLT) So it is very possible that Origen was simply incorrectly quoting passages that do exist in the Ethiopic text. Second, it is known from the discovery of Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts of Enoch found in the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran that there are large portions of text that are not present in the Ethiopic manuscripts. (See 4Q209 and 4Q211) So it is also possible that he was quoting from portions of Enoch that may have not been translated into the Ethiopic text, and hence have not survived to today. Irenaeus and the Book of Enoch Irenaeus, in his work The Proof of the Apostolic Preaching 18, records a condensed retelling of Enoch 6-8. He does this without directly citing the Book of Enoch, yet the citation here is unmistakable. “And for a very long while wickedness extended and spread, and reached and laid hold upon the whole race of mankind, until a very small seed of righteousness remained among them: and illicit unions took place upon the earth, since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants. And the angels brought as presents to their wives teachings of wickedness, in that they brought them the virtues of roots and herbs, dyeing in colours and cosmetics, the discovery of rare substances, love-potions, aversions, amours, concupiscence, constraints of love, spells of bewitchment, and all sorcery and idolatry hateful to God; by the entry of which things into the world evil extended and spread, while righteousness was diminished and enfeebled.” The Epistle of Pseudo-Barnabas and the Book of Enoch The Epistle of Pseudo-Barnabas is frequently ranked among the Apostolic Fathers, i.e. the founding documents of gentile Christianity. This letter contains several blatant quotations from the Book of Enoch, citing it as “Scripture” in Barnabas 16:5-6. “Again, it was made manifest that the city and the temple and the people of Israel were to be delivered up. For the Scripture says, ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days that the Lord shall deliver the sheep of His pasture, and the sheep-fold, and their tower to destruction.’ (Condensed from Enoch 89:54-56) And it took place according to what the Lord said. But let us inquire if a temple of God exists. Yes, it exists, where He Himself said that He makes and perfects it. For it is written, ‘And it shall come to pass when the week is ended that a temple of God shall be built gloriously in the name of the Lord.’ ” (Similar to Enoch 93:6-7) Given that the writing style of Pseudo-Barnabas does not always give exact quotes from the Scripures, but frequently handles them in a very midrashic style, it is probable that the author is giving a condensed paraphrase of the passages in question from the same version of Enoch we have in our possession today. Athenagoras and the Book of Enoch Athenagoras of Athens, in his work 2nd century work Legatio, claims to regard Enoch as a true prophet, and this same work relies heavily upon the angelic cosmology presented in the Book of Enoch. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://torahdrivenlife.com/?page_id=391 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 No one denies its acceptance in the early church. The problem is that the early church was rife with false doctrine and as such is not a very good barometer for testing what is good and acceptable. The book of Enoch's value is like that of other early writings. It allows us a glimpse into the mindset of early Christians. It has historical value. The problems we start running into is when we start using things like the book of Enoch to fill in the blanks, in areas where the Bible is silent. To take a book that is not Scripture that has theological errors in it, and use it as a supplemental source alongside the Bible to fill in the missing information that the Bible doesn't give us really doesn't make for a good way of handling that document Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,143 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,438 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 5, 2015 No one denies its acceptance in the early church. The problem is that the early church was rife with false doctrine and as such is not a very good barometer for testing what is good and acceptable. The book of Enoch's value is like that of other early writings. It allows us a glimpse into the mindset of early Christians. It has historical value. The problems we start running into is when we start using things like the book of Enoch to fill in the blanks, in areas where the Bible is silent. To take a book that is not Scripture that has theological errors in it, and use it as a supplemental source alongside the Bible to fill in the missing information that the Bible doesn't give us really doesn't make for a good way of handling that document This is very good council ... from one who being small and insignificant thinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Did anybody read or seen the video of Enoch? I know it is not in the Bible ..if anybody read it before please let me know what you think of it as I,m debating to watch the video online... From what I heard and seen so far..it is interesting .. Years ago, I got the book of Enoch and started reading it. Holy Spirit told me to throw it away, so I did. I didn't get that deep into it to say whats in it, but I can say that the fruit from the ones who do get into the book of Enoch is not good. I've seen many people get on a prideful spiritual high, fall into some crazy false doctrines, separate themselves from the body of Christ through reading that book and taking it as scripture. . Thank you Joshua for your opinion about this Why would people get prideful after reading it, does it add to the Bible.. It does add to the bible and should not be taken as scripture. I know mormons hold it as one of their writings. Pride and deception go hand in hand. When people believe they have special knowledge or revelation, they get prideful and because they think they have a higher revelation than others, they are not open to correction and they separate from anyone who disagrees with them. I've seen this happen many times. I find that interesting that you can call something anathema that you haven't read. I find it further interesting that the Holy Spirit tells you not to read it and tells me to read it. In my personal experience the person who accepts Enoch is not the one who separates from ones that disagree with him/her, just the opposite that the people who accept nothing but the canon as reality separate themselves from those of us who think the things in the book are true for the most part. As for being word breathed by God, I know very few people who believe that........ there are many writings that contain truths that are not part of the Bible... The person who introduced the book to me was trying to explain how the Church deceptively left it out of the cannon and that it was scripture. He also ended up separating himself from the Church because of he believed he walked in a superior revelation. I've now seen a handful of people fall in this. Perhaps the Lord was shielding me from his trip at the time. As far as the book of Enoch, I don't deny it has historical value and insight into the way first century Christians think, I've just seen very bad fruit come from people who accept it as scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts