Jump to content
IGNORED

WHY is the Body of Christ `caught up?`


Marilyn C

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  84
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  3,987
  • Content Per Day:  1.13
  • Reputation:   2,517
  • Days Won:  4
  • Joined:  07/17/2014
  • Status:  Offline

Hi last Daze,

OK I see what you are thinking, that we are all in together. Now had you thought on this -

In Hebrews Ch. 12 we read of those who are in the General Assembly in the third heaven.

`You have come to .......the General Assembly & church of the first born who are registered in heaven,....to the spirits of just men made perfect...` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

We see two groups there – the Body of Christ, & the spirits of just men made perfect. God also tells us that this group (spirits of just men) `worked righteousness...` etc & were the people of faith (in the OT) who looked for a heavenly country, a city that God would build. Now notice at the end of that chapter, 11 a very interesting scripture.

`God having provided something better for us, that they (OT) should not be made perfect apart for us.` (Heb. 11: 40)

The `something better,` refers to a greater dominion. Now that is something to look into for it comes back again to the `why of the catching away,` the purpose of God for the Body of Christ & the purpose of God for the OT saints & others.

 

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

I'm not sure how any of that runs contrary to what I've said.

Three resurrections unto immortality.  1. Christ  2. those who are Christ's at His coming   3. everyone else at the end.  This seems pretty straightforward from 1 Corinthians 15, at least it does to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,957
  • Content Per Day:  0.57
  • Reputation:   295
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/17/2014
  • Status:  Offline

Marilyn

Caught up means "snatching with force"

The Lord will transform both the dead in Christ and those living at the time to immortality in the twinkling of an eye

This transformation will be to a "higher" state, or level, of existence .... the condition of eternal life

So the event is described as being "caught up" .... heaven is the state of immortality

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel 11:36
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

  • Group:  Non-Conformist Theology
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  48
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,139
  • Content Per Day:  0.69
  • Reputation:   796
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  10/20/2015
  • Status:  Offline

Probably most believers here would agree that the Body of Christ is `caught up,` at some point, but disagree on the `WHEN,` the timing - `pre, mid, post` etc. And there are plenty of threads to discuss these views. However this topic is concerned with the big `WHY.`

I can think of at least 10 good reasons (& there are probably more) as to WHY the Body of Christ is `caught up.`

`But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you should sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died & rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who are asleep in Jesus.

For we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive & remain until the coming of the Lord will be no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, & with the trumpet of God.

And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive & remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.` (1 Thess. 4: 13 – 18)

So my question for discussion is - `WHY` is the Body of Christ `caught up?`
What reason/s do you see that the Body of Christ is `caught up?`

Looking forward to your answers.

Marilyn

I look at it as being changed ,from flesh to spirit as flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom....Also once the flesh dies it will never be needed again.....

Those who have died are already with Christ

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,128
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

Marilyn

Caught up means "snatching with force"

The Lord will transform both the dead in Christ and those living at the time to immortality in the twinkling of an eye

This transformation will be to a "higher" state, or level, of existence .... the condition of eternal life

So the event is described as being "caught up" .... heaven is the state of immortality

 

 

 

Hi Daniel,

Sorry to have missed your comments. I do agree with you & like the way you said - `to a higher state, or level.` Reminds me of the Apostle Paul encouraging us to -

`...press towards the goal of the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.` (Phil. 3: 14)

Upward - high calling, the on top calling.....

`For our citizenship is in heaven,.....` (Phil. 3: 20)

Blessings, Marilyn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,128
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

Hi n2thelight,

I agree with you - this decaying flesh & blood will put on immortality - a glorified body, but no blood.

 

Hi simplejeff,

Yes the Lord had a body, but it was not this flesh but a glorified body. Note also, no blood, for Adam`s life came down to us through the blood. We will have Christ`s life & that never came through Adam`s blood.

Marilyn.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...

  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  1,265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.45
  • Content Count:  2,637
  • Content Per Day:  0.93
  • Reputation:   760
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  07/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  02/04/1972

On 8/8/2015 at 0:17 PM, Rev2015 said:
I believe it will be on a future feast of trumpets.

Hi brother Rev2015,

      I liked very much of your observation. I never had associated:

  • Day of blowing the trumpets with the seven trumpets;
  • Day of atonement with the death of the two witnesses;
  • Feast of ingathering with the rapture of the Church.

      Glory to Jesus for using your life to reveal me this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  16
  • Topic Count:  134
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  8,142
  • Content Per Day:  2.37
  • Reputation:   6,612
  • Days Won:  20
  • Joined:  11/02/2014
  • Status:  Offline

On 8/6/2015 at 0:50 AM, Marilyn C said:

What reason/s do you see that the Body of Christ is `caught up?`

Without getting into a lot of detail, the Rapture is the culmination of salvation, with the saints being resurrected or perfected and glorified. This is where "predestination" comes in - predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29,30).

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3).

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  40
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  6,540
  • Content Per Day:  1.07
  • Reputation:   2,427
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  06/28/2007
  • Status:  Online
  • Birthday:  10/28/1957

On 8/6/2015 at 2:50 AM, Marilyn C said:

Probably most believers here would agree that the Body of Christ is `caught up,` at some point, but disagree on the `WHEN,` the timing - `pre, mid, post` etc. And there are plenty of threads to discuss these views. However this topic is concerned with the big `WHY.`

I can think of at least 10 good reasons (& there are probably more) as to WHY the Body of Christ is `caught up.`

`But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you should sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died & rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who are asleep in Jesus.

For we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive & remain until the coming of the Lord will be no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, & with the trumpet of God.

And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive & remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.` (1 Thess. 4: 13 – 18)

So my question for discussion is - `WHY` is the Body of Christ `caught up?`
What reason/s do you see that the Body of Christ is `caught up?`

Looking forward to your answers.

Marilyn

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

Well, that's not necessarily true. Let's back up a moment:

Technically, the Body of the Messiah is NOT "caught up." The Greek word "harpageesometha" in verse 17 has NOTHING TO DO WITH "up!" It means "shall be seized" or "shall be snatched away!" The word "up," regardless the English version used, was SUPPLIED by the translators because we shall be "in clouds" and "into [the] air!" The actual Greek phrasing is "epeita heemeis hoi zoontes hoi perileipomenoi hama sun autois harpageesometha en nefelais eis apanteesin tou kuriou  eis aera; kai houtoos pantote sun kurioo espometha."

It means...

epeita = thereafter
heemeis = we
hoi = the
zoontes = living-ones
hoi = the
perileipomenoi = survivors
hama = at-the-same-time
sun = with
autois = them
harpageesometha = shall-be-seized
en = in
nefelais = clouds
eis = into
apanteesin = an-encounter
tou = of-the
kuriou = lord
eis = into
aera; = air;
kai = and
houtoos = in-this-way
pantote = every-when
sun = with
kurioo = lord
espometha. = we-shall-be.

So, the REAL question should be "WHY is the Body of the Messiah seized or snatched away?" AND, I believe a corresponding question should be "to WHERE is the Body of the Messiah seized or snatched away?"

Those who believe one of the many rapture positions will ASSUME that it is to "Heaven." However, this passage says NOTHING about that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  40
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  6,540
  • Content Per Day:  1.07
  • Reputation:   2,427
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  06/28/2007
  • Status:  Online
  • Birthday:  10/28/1957

On 10/28/2015 at 5:15 AM, n2thelight said:

I look at it as being changed ,from flesh to spirit as flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom....Also once the flesh dies it will never be needed again.....

Those who have died are already with Christ

Shabbat shalom, n2thelight.

Sorry, but that's not what Paul meant in 1 Cor. 15. It's not "changed from flesh to spirit." It's changed from a "soul-ual body" (sooma psuchikon) to a "spiritual body" (sooma pneumatikon).  It's changed from an "air-BREATHING body" to an "air-BLASTING body!" While it is true that "flesh and blood cannot INHERIT the kingdom of God" (it doesn't say ANYTHING about "entering"), our Lord has a body that consists of "flesh and bones!" (See Luke 24:39.)

And, who says that "once the flesh dies it will never be needed again"? THAT'S NOT in the Bible! Instead, we are instructed to ANTICIPATE the Resurrection of our flesh!

1 Corinthians 15:3-24
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ (the Messiah) died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas (Kefa = Peter), then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above (over) five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present (the time when 1 Corinthians was being written), but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles (the Sent-Ones), that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12 Now if Christ (the Messiah) be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ (the Messiah) not risen:
14 And if Christ (the Messiah) be not risen, then is our preaching vain (empty; useless), and your faith is also vain (empty; useless).
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ (the Messiah): whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ (the Messiah) raised:
17 And if Christ (the Messiah) be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ (the Messiah) are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ (the Messiah), we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ (the Messiah) risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ (the Messiah) shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ (the Messiah) the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's (the Messiah's) at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
KJV

We've got this goofy notion that was started who-knows-when-in-the-last-2000-years that our ultimate destination is this ethereal place called "Heaven!" That's NOT what the Bible says! We are yet to anticipate in order...

1. the Resurrection of our flesh
2. the Millennial Reign of the Kingdom of heaven (the Kingdom from the sky), the Kingdom of God (God's Kingdom), by God's Messiah Yeshua` as He subdues all of His enemies
3. the end of Death at the Great White Throne Judgment,
4. the Transmission of the World Kingdom from the Son to the Father, and
5. the Re-Creation of the Earth and its Sky (the New Sky and the New Earth) and the Establishment of the New Jerusalem as its capitol!

We still have a THOUSAND YEARS to endure/enjoy in the Messiah's Kingdom as it grows to fill the earth! THEN, after the final Judgment, God will RE-Create the Earth (the GROUND; the SURFACE or LAND of this planet) and its Heaven (its Sky), and THEN we shall enter eternity!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,128
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

5 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

Hi brother Rev2015,

      I liked very much of your observation. I never had associated:

  • Day of blowing the trumpets with the seven trumpets;
  • Day of atonement with the death of the two witnesses;
  • Feast of ingathering with the rapture of the Church.

      Glory to Jesus for using your life to reveal me this.

Hi Leonardo Von,

Trust you bro to bring up another old thread. These must be topics you like to comment on, ay. Now as to those Feasts I personally cannot see them relating to the Body of Christ in scripture. I do see them, however, in God`s word relating to Israel.

For example - the Day of Atonement - Israel`s National Day of repentance & God`s National forgiveness, can be seen to be fulfilled when the Lord comes to Mount Zion on earth, & then goes into Jerusalem to connect, bringing forgiveness to Israel. (Zech. 12: 7 - 10) 

God said He would do this -

`He will avenge the blood of His servants. & render vengeance to His adversaries; He will provide atonement for His land & His people.` (Deut. 32: 43)

Perhaps something to think about.

Marilyn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...