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WHY is the Body of Christ `caught up?`


Marilyn C

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5 hours ago, Ezra said:

Without getting into a lot of detail, the Rapture is the culmination of salvation, with the saints being resurrected or perfected and glorified. This is where "predestination" comes in - predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29,30).

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3).

Hi Ezra,

Good scriptures there, bro, telling us what will happen when the Lord comes & we are changed. However as to the WHY, may I suggest -

We know that God the Father sends Christ when it is time for the restoration to begin. (Acts 3: 20 & 21) So let`s look at that. What do you think is the first place/rulership that had rebellion & needs restoration?

Marilyn.

Edited by Marilyn C
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4 hours ago, Davida said:

I agree with you Rev2015. I believe the Lord will rapture His Church before the Tribulation, then we will all return with the LORD.  

Hi Davida,

Thank you for your thoughts. I agree that the Lord will catch away, rapture His Body, but I do not agree that we will return to earth. That would be a good topic for another thread I believe.

Marilyn.

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3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

Well, that's not necessarily true. Let's back up a moment:

Technically, the Body of the Messiah is NOT "caught up." The Greek word "harpageesometha" in verse 17 has NOTHING TO DO WITH "up!" It means "shall be seized" or "shall be snatched away!" The word "up," regardless the English version used, was SUPPLIED by the translators because we shall be "in clouds" and "into [the] air!" The actual Greek phrasing is "epeita heemeis hoi zoontes hoi perileipomenoi hama sun autois harpageesometha en nefelais eis apanteesin tou kuriou  eis aera; kai houtoos pantote sun kurioo espometha."

It means...

nefelais = clouds
eis = into
apanteesin = an-encounter
tou = of-the
kuriou = lord
eis = into
aera; = air;

 

 

Hi Retro,

Again we agree on some things & not on others. As this thread is about the WHY, I am not getting into the WHERE.

regards, Marilyn.

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2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

We know that God the Father sends Christ when it is time for the restoration to begin. (Acts 3: 20 & 21) So let`s look at that. What do you think is the first place/rulership that had rebellion & needs restoration?

Even though important, these are secondary considerations as to why the Church is caught up to be with the Lord. The primary consideration is eternal union and communion with God and Christ.  That is only truly possible when the saints have been perfected and glorified. It is only then that they can see God's face.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (Rev 21:3).

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. (Rev 22:3,4).

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8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

Again we agree on some things & not on others. As this thread is about the WHY, I am not getting into the WHERE.

regards, Marilyn.

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

That's fine, but just know that IF you are wrong about the WHERE, then the rest of this thread is useless and a waste of time.

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Quote

"Caught up" is a catchy little phrase to mean that ALL God's men and beasts were born in his thoughts and when the flesh of the world is burned up soon, those in the thoughts of God remain meaning "caught up".                                                 Witness2U

Sounds very familiar? Been here before Witness?lol

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1 hour ago, Witness2U said:

"Caught up" is a catchy little phrase to mean that ALL God's men and beasts were born in his thoughts and when the flesh of the world is burned up soon, those in the thoughts of God remain meaning "caught up". 

Shabbat SHALOM, a Sabbath of PEACE, to you, Witness2U.

That's just plain "wrong thinking!" Talk about a defeatist attitude! A pessimist like yourself may give up on God's Creation, but GOD won't! He is NOT going to lose! 

First of all, while the WORLD-SYSTEM is going to be "burned up soon" (after another 1000 years, at the least), the whole EARTH is NOT going to be. It will merely be the SURFACE of the earth, the ground, and the sky that shall be purged, but that is simply to make room for the New that He will re-create!

Ecclesiastes 1:4
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
KJV

Exodus 31:16-17
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
KJV

Psalm 37:23-29
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
KJV

Psalm 89:3-4
3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
KJV

Psalm 89:20-37
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
KJV

People make such bad judgments as you have because they interpret certain Scriptures to be absolute and universal, when the Scriptures were often meant to be conditional and local! That puts them in a dichotomous situation, an "all or nothing" mode. A couple of "for-instances":

---

For instance, people read in Revelation 21:23 that John said:

Revelation 21:23
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
KJV

And, they come away thinking that the sun and the moon are going to be no more! That's NOT what he said! He said that the CITY won't have a NEED for the sun or the moon! That does NOT mean that the rest of the earth won't still need them, and the verse does NOT say that the sun and the moon are going to be destroyed! Instead, we read above (Psalm 89:36-37) that the sun and the moon will last FOREVER! And, a "faithful witness in heaven" is a star! It means a "trustworthy witness in the sky," like the North Star, Polaris!

Indeed, there's another passage that I find intriguing:

Isaiah 24:23
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
KJV

This verse was translated with anthropomorphism, as though the moon could be "confused" or the sun "ashamed," but the wording also implies that the OBJECTS, the sun and the moon, shall be "mixed up" and "outdone," respectively! The moon will be mixed up in its phases and the sun will be outdone by the BRIGHT reign of our God, YHWH Tsvaa'owt!

This tells us that (1) the sun will still exist in order for it to be "outdone." (It was said of Yeshua` that His face shone "brighter than the noonday sun!") And, we also know that (2) the moon will exist to reflect both the light from the sun and the light of our God!

---

For instance, people read in Revelation 20 and 2 Peter 3 the following:

Revelation 20:7-15
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

2 Peter 3:7-12
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

And, they ASSUME that these verses are talking about ALL the planet Earth and ALL the "heavens" (which, according to them, includes all three: "the atmosphere of this planet (1st heaven), the whole UNIVERSE (2nd heaven), and even GOD'S ABODE (3rd heaven)!" But, again, that is NOT what John or Peter said! There's another more "benign" interpretation based better on the meaning of the Greek words rather than the English translations. Oh, it's still catastrophic for this earth, but not nearly so all-inclusive: The word "ouranoi" that is translated as "heavens" is talking about the SKIES of this planet, the atmosphere! The word "gee" that is translated as "earth" is talking about the LAND or the GROUND of this planet!

I'm reminded of an episode of Star Trek Next Generation in which the alien "Q" pokes fun at Piquard for calling our planet "Earth": He said something like "What kind of a species names its planet, 'Planet Dirt'?!"

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50 minutes ago, Witness2U said:

Argument doesn't come from the Spirit of God. 

Shabbat shalom, Witness2U.

Nonsense. It comes from God's Word and the Spirit of God NEVER contradicts God's Word!

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13 hours ago, Ezra said:

Even though important, these are secondary considerations as to why the Church is caught up to be with the Lord. The primary consideration is eternal union and communion with God and Christ.  That is only truly possible when the saints have been perfected and glorified. It is only then that they can see God's face.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (Rev 21:3).

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. (Rev 22:3,4).

Hi Ezra,

I appreciate discussing with you God`s word, though we do seem to knock heads sometimes. :o 

I do agree that `eternal union & communion with God & Christ,` is important, but that could have come about without being raptured - just a consequence of dying in the Lord. Now there is something very significant as to why the Body of Christ is raptured when it is.

Maturity, is a requirement for the `catching away,` but not the purpose. If someone was studying to be a teacher, then maturity is a requirement but not the purpose. Being a teacher is the purpose.

Thus the purpose of the Body of Christ being caught away to the third heaven, with the Lord, at that particular time, is .................................... 

Marilyn.

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To support the Lord while he  saves Israel.

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