Who or what is the two witnesses of god in the end times?

[SINNERSAVED]

yes it is all assumptions and some things we will never know  but as long as we focus on jesus that is all that really matters

[missmuffet]

yes it is all assumptions and some things we will never know  but as long as we focus on jesus that is all that really matters

Yes,that is right  

[Sister]

I know that Elijah and moses seems to be the best pick for most, and both of them at the mount of transfiguration, with jesus, but moses already died and why would he be brought back again to die over again, could it be by chance any other prophets or persons ? and as it states is it a physical bodies of two people ???

I have heard it put in a symbolistic view, and if we can gather anymore insight to these two , that be great for I know what it is saying and I wanted to know if there be anymore scripture not mentioned yet, thank you everyone

Sinnersaved

 

It is not a hard thing for God to raise the dead thousands of years after their death (into flesh).  Nothing is impossible for him, because Moses will serve a special purpose.

The fact Moses will die again means that he will not be raised from the dead in a perfect spirit body, but raised in the flesh only.  He needs to be flesh still, because the two witnesses are going to be killed by the beast.

The beauty in this is that they will be raised 3 1/2 days later and everybody will witness this. 

 

God will do the same with Israel, raise them into a flesh body during the millenium (see Ezekiel 37)

[Sister]

 

I know that Elijah and moses seems to be the best pick for most, and both of them at the mount of transfiguration, with jesus, but moses already died and why would he be brought back again to die over again, could it be by chance any other prophets or persons ? and as it states is it a physical bodies of two people ???

I have heard it put in a symbolistic view, and if we can gather anymore insight to these two , that be great for I know what it is saying and I wanted to know if there be anymore scripture not mentioned yet, thank you everyone

Moses died once and could not be one of the witnesses.That would make Moses a contradiction Hebrews 9:27.

 

Bopeep

 

 Hebrews 9:27   And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

That's the general rule, but there are some exceptions.

Lazarus is one example.  He died again, because he was not raised into spirit (immortal) but flesh.  The Jews were scheming to kill him.

[Bible2]

SINNERSAVED said in post 1:

 

Who or what is the two witnesses of god in the end times?

 

In the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12, the 2 witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the 2 men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4, the 2 "olive trees" refer back to the 2 men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

 

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues which the 2 witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

 

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael the archangel retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' recently-dead body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated by God back to mortal life, like, for example, how Lazarus' recently-dead body was resuscitated by God back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could appear alive at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

 

The 2 witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b,3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the 2 witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

 

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because 2 witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the 2 "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

 

SINNERSAVED said in post 1:

 

. . . trying to get the scene and the timing of these two , and how the 144,000 virgin males are in the time of this end mentioned in revelation . . .

 

The 144,000 will all be Christians (Revelation 14:1,4), and so they will all be part of the church (cf. Ephesians 4:4-6). They will be the firstfruits of the church (Revelation 14:4), in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12). They will be male virgins (Revelation 14:4), who could all have been born in the 20th or 21st century, and who could all already be part of the church. For they will all be alive on the earth, and will all already be God's servants (Revelation 7:3; cf. Romans 6:22, Philippians 1:1), by the time of Revelation 7:3-8, during the first stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will have entered the tribulation along with the rest of the church alive at that time, for there will be no pre-tribulation rapture (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

Also, the 144,000, who are of the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:4-8), can include both Jews and Gentiles in the church. For all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

 

The tribe of Dan is missing from the list of the 144,000's twelve tribes (Revelation 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Numbers 1:32, Psalms 78:67, Ezekiel 37:16b,19) because the Israel they are from isn't genetic Israel with its 12 genetic tribes which include Dan (Genesis 49:28,17), but rather spiritual Israel (Romans 9:6-8), which consists of all the elect (Romans 9:11-13), both elect Jews and elect Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

 

--

 

While at the future point in time of Revelation 7:2-4, only the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church (Revelation 14:1,4) will be sealed for physical protection, all obedient people in the church will still be spiritually protected during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, no matter what happens to them physically (Romans 8:35-37). Also, before Revelation 7:2-4 happens, the 144,000, along with some others, will be physically protected so that they will survive the tribulation's first stage (in Revelation 6), while others will die and their souls will enter heaven (Revelation 7:9,14). It is near the end of this first stage that the 144,000 will be sealed (Revelation 7:3-4) for physical protection before the unsealing of the 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). The first 6 trumpets' events, up to Revelation 9:19, will be the tribulation's 2nd stage. The seal which the 144,000 will receive (which will be different from and in addition to the seal of the Holy Spirit himself which they and all others in the church receive: Ephesians 1:13) will physically protect them during this 2nd stage (Revelation 9:4).

 

After the 2nd stage, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church will be caught up in their mortal bodies as the "man child" to God's throne in heaven (Revelation 12:5, Revelation 14:4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:1). Right after the 144,000 are caught up, the tribulation's 3rd stage, the literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will begin (Revelation 12:5-6). This time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 14:9-13).

 

The 144,000 will remain in heaven before God's throne (Revelation 14:5, Textus Receptus) during the time of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 13:5-18), while 2 other parts of the church will still be on the earth: the figurative "woman" who represents those in the church who will flee into prepared wilderness places and be physically protected (Revelation 12:6,14); and the remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17), those in the church who will remain in the cities and not be physically protected, but will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

 

After the Antichrist's reign is declared legally over at the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). These vials (Revelation 16) will be the tribulation's 4th and final stage. Because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of these vials will be directed at those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7). So some in the church will survive the entire future tribulation on the earth. They are those who will still be "alive and remain" at Jesus' 2nd coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). These survivors will have experienced God's miraculous physical protection (Psalms 91) without having to have been part of the 144,000.

[Bible2]

Watching for Jesus said in post 3:

 

I believe the two witnesses will be Enoch and Elijah; both have not died and:

 

Hebrews 9:27.  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

Hebrews 9:27 isn't meant to be taken as an absolute rule, but as a general rule with some exceptions, like how, for example, Enoch in Hebrews 11:5 is an exception to Hebrews 11:13a. For it is possible for dead people to be resuscitated back to mortal life (e.g. after dying on an operating table) only to die a 2nd time sometime later. An example of a Biblical exception to Hebrews 9:27 is when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11:43-44). For Lazarus must have died a 2nd time, perhaps decades later, because Jesus himself was subsequently the first person to be raised from the dead to stay alive forever (1 Corinthians 15:20-23,52-54, Colossians 1:18b). And just as Lazarus died a 2nd time, so Moses could die a 2nd time, during the future tribulation as one of the 2 witnesses, who will be killed (Revelation 11:7).

 

Also, Enoch was translated so he wouldn't see death (Hebrews 11:5), not so that he would see death as one of the 2 witnesses. Hebrews 9:27 doesn't mean everyone has to die at least once, for some believers will never die (1 Corinthians 15:51-53).

 

Watching for Jesus said in post 3:

 

I believe the 1,260 days that they will prohesy is the same 42 months that the war with the saints will happen, as well as the 1,260 days that the woman (I believe to be Israel) will flee into the wilderness and be protected by God; and the same 42 months that Jerusalem is trodden down by the Gentiles.

 

The woman in Revelation 12 represents the church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). She is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). The moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). The crown of 12 stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the 12 apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26), who have been placed over the church (1 Corinthians 12:28).

 

Her giving birth to the "man child", and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6), represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4,5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).

 

Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

 

The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the church during that time who won't flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities, and will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

 

Also, Genesis 37:9-10 isn't (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1. For in Revelation 12:1, the church/Israel isn't clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2), through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the church/Israel doesn't have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the church/Israel doesn't have Jacob's 12 sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the 12 apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her 12 tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).

[mevosper]

I've come to the belief that the two witnesses are the law and the prophets. Here is how I've come to that conclusion:

 

• The law and the prophets convict of sin and wrong doing.
• The prophets stopped rain from heaven and turned water to blood.
• The conviction and reprimand of the law is likened to "spewing fire from one's mouth".
• The prophets and the law were both witnesses of God's righteousness. 

 

 

The Law and it being killed

1. In the old testament, the law was given to the Priests and Levites to practice and teach to all the children of Israel. But as time progressed, they corrupted the law and used it for their own gain. (Zep 3:4, "...they have done violence to the law.", Lam 2:9, Neh 9:26, 2ki 17:13-20)

 

The Prophets being killed

There is no lack of God's "disgust" with the killing of the true prophets delivering His words to the Old Testament jews (Matt 23:33-37 Jesus talking to the scribes and Pharisees, 2 Chr 36:15-16)

 

The Prophets as a witness of God

Jer 25:4-6

 

Paul references the law and the prophets as witnesses:

Rom 3:21 - "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets". Meaning that Christ's redemptive work on the cross made righteousness possible to all men, not just those raised under the levitical priesthood teachings. 

 

Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets

John 1:45, Matt 5:17, Luke 24:44

 

The law and the prophets were until John 

Matt 11:13, Luke 16:16

 

The death of the 2 witnesses. 

As Christ said, the law and the prophets were until John. Once Christ was crucified and raised again (therefore fulfilling the law), the symbolism of the 2 witnesses being raised to life and taken up to heaven is fulfilled. 

[Bible2]

mevosper said in post 17:

 

I've come to the belief that the two witnesses are the law and the prophets.

 

Note that the 2 witnesses aren't the law and the prophets, but simply 2 individual prophets who will prophesy in sackcloth for 1,260 literal days (Revelation 11:3), before they are martyred and their 2 dead bodies lie unburied in a street in Jerusalem for 3.5 literal days (Revelation 11:8-12).

[mevosper]

the law and the prophets

 

Rom 3:21 KJV - [21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

[Last Daze]

 

mevosper said in post 17:

 

I've come to the belief that the two witnesses are the law and the prophets.

 

Note that the 2 witnesses aren't the law and the prophets, but simply 2 individual prophets who will prophesy in sackcloth for 1,260 literal days (Revelation 11:3), before they are martyred and their 2 dead bodies lie unburied in a street in Jerusalem for 3.5 literal days (Revelation 11:8-12).

 

 

Or, two individuals that that represent the law and the prophets.