Pamelasv Posted August 22, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 132 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/21/1969 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Romans 11: 28-29'From the standpoint of the gospel they (Isreal) (not us adopted Isreal) ( just in the case that somebody brings that up) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.'What exactly does mean. I guess I understand the calling part, but not the gifts part. ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Romans 11: 28-29'From the standpoint of the gospel they (Isreal) (not us adopted Isreal) ( just in the case that somebody brings that up) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.'What exactly does mean. I guess I understand the calling part, but not the gifts part. 'What it means is that God is faithful. He gives and doesn't take away. God is not capricious and always changing his mind. That's why we can have assurance. In context, it is talking about God's calling and promises/blessings freely bestowed upon Israel. God is not revoking his calling on Israel as his chosen people and it is God's faithfulness to Israel in spite of their lack of faithfulness that shows us that we can trust God to be faithful to us when we fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeinChrist Posted August 23, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 192 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/29/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2015 I really like Shiloh response. These verses are probably in reference to the following: 19) God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do it? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good? 20) Behold I have received commandment to bless: and He hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it. 21) He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath He seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a King is among them. Numbers 23:19-21As Romans 11:28 states ... beloved for the fathers' sake... God remembers Israel for her past faithfulness. But as Shiloh mention this is about God's faithfulness to us His unfaithful servants. We all as children of God blow it from time to time even have so weak of faith we doubt and disbelieve the truth of God, but Paul states If we believe not, yet He is abideth faithful: He cannot deny Himself. II Timothy 2:13 As Jeremiah states after Jerusalem destruction it is because of God mercies and His faithfulness that we are not destroyed.22) It is because of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because His compassion fail not.23) They are great every morning; great is thy faithfulness.Lamentations 3:22-23So that even after we have messed things up so badly, we have confidence that God will still be willing to bless us in His Son Jesus Christ, not because we have been faithful, but because God is truly faithful to us, and full of so much mercy and grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted August 23, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 306 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,130 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,806 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2015 Blessings,,,,So that even after we have messed things up so badly, we have confidence that God will still be willing to bless us in His Son Jesus Christ, not because we have been faithful, but because God is truly faithful to us, and full of so much mercy and grace. posted by 19DuggarfanAAmen...........Glory to God! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I like the AMP translation because I think it does a really good job of making clear what is meant in these passages: “From the point of view of the Gospel (good news), they [the Jews, at present] are enemies [of God], which is for your advantage and benefit. But from the point of view of God’s choice (of election, of divine selection), they are still the beloved (dear to Him) for the sake of their forefathers.For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 24, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,826 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Online Share Posted August 24, 2015 Romans 11: 28-29'From the standpoint of the gospel they (Isreal) (not us adopted Isreal) ( just in the case that somebody brings that up) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.'What exactly does mean. I guess I understand the calling part, but not the gifts part. 'I am not quite sure, what enemies is referring to, enemies of the Gospel to our advantage or for our sake. Is Paul referring to, that the Jews had to denied the Gospel of Jesus, and put him to death, if not the Gospel will not be establish and be given to Gentiles?" enemies of the Christ for your shake". Or is it that after the proclamation of the Gospel by Peter, the Jewish prosecution began agains the faith, resulting in the Gentiles receiving the Gospel. And the Jews prosecute Paul from city to city, resulting in the spreading of the Gospel through out Gentile nations? Your other point is that they are beloved, for the shake of their great forefathers, this is so truth, the good news were preach to them first by Peter and many REPENTED and then from Jerusalem to other cities of their Nation, Jesus still calling them to repentants, and wants them to believe in him, so they can be together with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and David and Moses and Aaron and Samuel, and not to be perish as their ancestors, perish in the dessert because of unbelief, and he wants them to believe in him so they can entered the heavenly Promish Land, to your other question, about promises and keeping them. Are these Promises made by whom? and within which covenant? The old, or the new? We know that Jesus call Peter to be the Rock of his Gospel, and he kept him safe from death, and he supplied him with Gifts as he needed them to carry on his missions. The same Jesus did for Paul. And he gave gifts of healings to many through them, and he never took the Gifts of healing from the people to make them sick again, after healing them, even today he gives gifts of healings. And the gift of the Holy Spirit, who still is with us and will always be, and never be taken away. The gift of the Cross? It has happen. How is possible to reverse it? The Gift of righteousness and the Gift of eternal life by faith alone,(he did the obedience and the works), how can someone adds works and obedience for these Gifts. He wants everyone to be saved, especially the Jews. About the personal gifts to people, if they abuse them and how they use them, that's strictly his Judgement, if he who gave the Gifts to them, then is his call, to deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamelasv Posted August 25, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 132 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/21/1969 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 I like the gifts part mentioned above. If we are His, he will give good gifts. From necessary physical to the spiritual. Also, if He equips you for something, say you have the gift of evangelism, He plans to use that for a purpose. It's all planned out. Of course if we are following Him the plans happen. Yet the one with the gift will always have this burden on their heart to want to evangelize people they see. While some are prayer intercessors whom God prays thru to make things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,071 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,396 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I believe we see this in Lucifer having all the gifts so as to be great in the creation of God and separating those giftsfrom The Giver he then, still having those gifts, became useless in the eternity of God's keeping. Put away in thosegifts without God-> places the understanding of vanity as a source of anything but God's eternal wrath... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,826 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Online Share Posted August 25, 2015 I believe we see this in Lucifer having all the gifts so as to be great in the creation of God and separating those giftsfrom The Giver he then, still having those gifts, became useless in the eternity of God's keeping. Put away in thosegifts without God-> places the understanding of vanity as a source of anything but God's themeternal wrath... Love, Steven an interesting thought, even though, Lucifer is not a human. We can learn about spiritual gifts, from this example, we see: a) the gift will bring things from God in general to the entity that has the indueling gift. In the case of Lusifer that he was cut off (is the term "cut off" ok?), from GOD, the indueling gift from GOD, it's impossible to remaine with him. But the maturity, the knowledge, the opening of the mind, and other inborn talents he had that made him deferent from the others remaint with him. He did not become stupit. And he did not loose his leadership skills, and his persuasion and craftiness, and those skills did not remaint still, but continiou to involve, and became more skillful than ever before. We have an exable, when the Lord put spiritual gifts in people, which guided them from within and teach them how to be craftsmen, and builders, to craft and build everything needed for the temple. The recipients learn a trade from the gifts. They Now have skills of their own. They have the know how, without the help and the guidance of the gift, and they can experience and improvise growth, and continioun to develop and invent, and they can teach others, to learn the things they learn from the gifts, with Peter is deferent in this situation, "go with them, don't worry what to say to them, but when that time come, I will put the words in your mouth to speak, or what to say". That's a holy spirit taking over, situation. With Kornilious. The same with Paul"I believe in the resuraction" and that divided the people, THAT'S WHOW JESUS saved the day, that time.Another famous quote of the holy spirit is: "I APPEAL to Ceasar". They are gifts to develop skills how to present the Gospel in General and how to present the Gospel in very specific and unick situation, which can happen only with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That knows the seed that needs to be shown. The technics of the spirit and the discipline of the mind and the emotions for the moment, they can not be taught by any manual, only by the LORD, suggestions are diferent. And similar situations are diferent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted August 26, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Romans 11: 28-29'From the standpoint of the gospel they (Isreal) (not us adopted Isreal) ( just in the case that somebody brings that up) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.'What exactly does mean. I guess I understand the calling part, but not the gifts part. 'HI Pamela,If you follow Paul's argument from chapter 2 He's been arguing that not all of those who are physical Jews are considered the descendants of Abraham. In Genesis God made some promises to Abraham. He promised that He would make Abraham, the father of a great nation, the father o many nations, that through his seed all nations would be blessed, and that the land he saw would be given to him as a lasting inheritance. In Romans 2-11 Paul explains how all of this took place. He goes into detail in chapter 9 about how the promises to Abraham were fulfilled. This section constitutes the calling and gifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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