Ezra Posted December 19, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.37 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 19, 2016 3 hours ago, thilipsis said: I think that how Old Testament saints were sanctified was different somehow but perhaps only with regards to how much they actually knew. The OT saints were justified by grace through faith. But they were perfected after the resurrection of Christ, and taken to the New Jerusalem from Hades, and are referred to as *the spirits of just men made perfect* (Heb 12:23). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravindran Posted December 19, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 19, 2016 Surprised the thread is going this long! The question was answered right in the first reply itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 19, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.26 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 19, 2016 22 hours ago, Yowm said: It was just a joke. Besides, when a thread is locked people can still read it. If they knew the thread had existed. Threads seem to disappear into the archives when not being replied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thilipsis Posted December 19, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 149 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1963 Share Posted December 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Ezra said: The OT saints were justified by grace through faith. But they were perfected after the resurrection of Christ, and taken to the New Jerusalem from Hades, and are referred to as *the spirits of just men made perfect* (Heb 12:23). There was only direct revelation and he Law in the OT. There was the same heaven and Hell but little was known. Apparently Rabbinical teaching had a concept of the afterlife but the abode of the dead was Sheol. Jesus atonement saves all who believe past, present and future. There is actually nothing indicating Old Testament saints got an upgrade as the result of the cross. Jesus is described in the Revelation as the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. That means that salvation is guaranteed before the world was created and before Adam ever sinned. It has always been based on a promise partially fulfilled at Calvary. The redemption of the purchase price doesn't happen until Christ returns so no one is perfect until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thilipsis Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 149 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1963 Share Posted December 20, 2016 5 hours ago, ravindran said: Surprised the thread is going this long! The question was answered right in the first reply itself I saw that to before I posted the first time. Then the subject turned to justification by faith. I never get tired of that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,777 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,729 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2016 3 hours ago, thilipsis said: I saw that to before I posted the first time. Then the subject turned to justification by faith. I never get tired of that one. "Justification by faith", it goes together with. "being born from above", you can not have one without the other. They are both part of the "new man in Christ". Why there was the need for the "new man in Christ", Did we need to have the "new man in Christ". What about the "eternal life", is this part of the "born from above". Is this also part of the "new man in Christ", Hope that I do not ask too much. I find your input , I do not what to say, I am glad you love the Lord, and you are not just "a Christian", but you have the blessing of " the repented Christian". God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thilipsis Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 149 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1963 Share Posted December 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said: "Justification by faith", it goes together with. "being born from above", you can not have one without the other. They are both part of the "new man in Christ". Why there was the need for the "new man in Christ", Did we need to have the "new man in Christ". What about the "eternal life", is this part of the "born from above". Is this also part of the "new man in Christ", Hope that I do not ask too much. I find your input , I do not what to say, I am glad you love the Lord, and you are not just "a Christian", but you have the blessing of " the repented Christian". God bless First of all I don't disagree with most of what you say, it's just that justification by faith is a core doctrine for me. It extends throughout the Scriptures and Jesus saying you must be born again is true of everyone from Adam to the last sinner to repent during redemptive history. There was no plan B, that is how the righteousness of God is communicated to us. Jesus telling Nicodemus you must be born again is universal in it's scope, sometimes we forget that Jesus taught us things no one else ever could and certainly never did. Salvation always required justification and sanctification. I hope you understand I have studied this a lot so I tend to dump a truck in these discussions. I'm not trying to confuse you or overwhelm you, I'm just trying to point out the Scriptures are pretty clear on this as a point of doctrine. Be patient with yourself, a lot of scholars have struggled with this as well. My New Testament professor was involved in studying Romans again when he was teaching us about the New Testament. You never seem to get to the bottom of it no matter how simple it is in principle. Grace and peace, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts