Bonky

Confused about prophecy

99 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, guestman said:


Then, at Revelation 12, we see the "woman" again giving "birth to a son, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod".(Rev 12:5) Now, "mentally put the pieces together" and what can be drawn from this ? That the "woman" is not a physical person, but an organization of loyal ones and realizing that Jesus is the primary "offspring" of her, then the "woman" had to have its source in heaven, from which Jesus came and became the first to selected as one of the "woman's sons" after his baptism.(Matt 3:16, 17) On Pentecost 33 C.E., began the selecting of others as "sons" (Acts 2:4) and in which this selection of "sons" would reach down to the "time of the end".(see Rev 12:17 whereby the "woman's offspring" are persecuted in our time frame and are busy "bearing witness concerning Jesus")

 

I am not giving out theories about the 'women' in Revelations.

I had a vision revealing that entire chapter (rev. 12) about a week or so ago.

But I can not discuss it.

It would reveal too much of God's plan here on Earth.

So, bidding ado on this topic (generally).

 

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Posted (edited)

Peter in 2 Pet 1:19 said we have a more sure word of prophecy regarding the Messiah, compared to the statements he made earlier regarding cunningly devised fables and being eye witnesses.  Prophecy is a much about seeing how the word of God has been confirmed as it is about what is in the future.  

How would a God, who is outside of the 10 dimensions of reality that we know we live in, get a message to us and confirm it?  By proclaiming the end from the beginning!  Prophecy is as much about confirming that the message is from God as it is about giving us a glimpse of future events.  And in seeing how prophecy has been fulfilled, we can glean a better understanding of how future prophecy will be fulfilled.  

On 9/5/2015 at 2:23 AM, thereselittleflower said:

My fear is for those who hold such a pre-trib position, and when the "rapture" does not occur for them, their faith may be found to be so weak, with so much hope placed on an event that did not occur, that they will lose their faith.

 

 

the Thessalonians had that problem, and Paul addressed it.  There had been false letters attributed to Paul that had stated they had missed the rapture and were now living in the Great Tribulation. With the increasing persecution that was going on from Rome at the time, they we worried that this was true.  Paul had to allay their fears and remind them of what he had taught them earlier.  2Thes 2:3 hits this head on.  There is dispute on whether apostasia means "falling away" or simply departure, but it is clear that until He that is restraining is taken out of the way (verse 7), the Great Tribulation period cannot start. Many feel that "He" is a reference to the Holy Spirit, which indwells the believers.  The church is restraining nothing, it is the Holy Spirit that restrains evil.   The HS job is to indwell, seal, and deliver the Bride of Messiah (the church) to the Messiah when He comes.  Once that is accomplished, He can then step aside, like a linebacker steps aside on a football field, and allow the opposition (false messiah) to be revealed.

Many experts in the original Greek say that the apostasia in Verse 3 should be better translated simply "departure", as to claim that there has to be a definite article to make the claim that the word implies "falling away" or departing from something specific, like the faith.  

I like to use the Mosaic Law standard that says any issue has to be confirmed by the testimony of at least two witnesses.  We have that in the Old Testament and the New Testament, the two witnesses.  Is there a statement of a pre-trip removal of the believers before the wrath of God comes in the OT?  I believe so, in Isaiah...

Isaiah 26:19-21 (NKJV) Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
Take Refuge from the Coming Judgment
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

It could possibly also mean a Mid Trip rapture, as the actual "Great Tribulation" does no occur until the mid point of this 7 year period (see Daniel 9:27).  But then, it would be expected, as the 7 year starts when the False Messiah establishes a covenant of protection on Israel. Yet, we are told in other scripture that no man will know the day or the hour.  So I side with a pre-trip position.

But I like to also say, facetiously, that I am really a Pan-Tribulationist.  It will  all pan out how God wants it to.

Edited by OldCoot
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Hey Everybody,

The topic WAS prophecy and now it has been appropriated to an argument over believer/non-believer. We were ALL born in sin and not saved. THEN we got saved. As it says in the hymn, "I once was lost but now I'm found,was blind but now I see...". Yes, I was born in sin and thus, not a Christian. Now I am saved and that settles it.

The original topic was prophecy. My humble opinion is that we get back to that discussion....pretty please?

 

Blessings

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16 hours ago, No124get1952 said:

Hey Everybody,

The topic WAS prophecy and now it has been appropriated to an argument over believer/non-believer. We were ALL born in sin and not saved. THEN we got saved. As it says in the hymn, "I once was lost but now I'm found,was blind but now I see...". Yes, I was born in sin and thus, not a Christian. Now I am saved and that settles it.

The original topic was prophecy. My humble opinion is that we get back to that discussion....pretty please?

 

Blessings

Okay, basically what the OP was asking, was how can we differentiate between truth and error when there are so many opinions/interpretations regarding prophecy. The answer is actually quite simple...follow Jesus' instructions.

Mark 13:29  So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

John 13:19  Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
John 14:29  And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

The key to understanding prophecy is not in being the most clever clairvoyant by deciphering the future, but by being a good student of history. It is through ignoring history, and prophecy already fulfilled, that the vast majority of Christians open themselves up to deception.

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On 9/4/2015 at 11:30 AM, Bonky said:

I'm . . . interested in understanding what value these prophecies have if everyone and their cat can claim what they think it means but nobody really knows.  

I would be careful about testing all prophecy by the standards of Matt Dillahunty.  Some prophecies have been very specific (for instance, the prophecies about Cyrus the great in Isaiah 44 and 45).  Other prophecies, however, have been far less specific (for instance, the prophecy of Christ in Numbers 24).  For the latter, I believe that it is important to seek the inspiration of the Holy Ghost because if the Holy Ghost reveals the meaning of a prophecy to us, then we can know the meaning even though the language of the prophecy is vague.  More generally, the power of the Holy Ghost can guide us into all truth if we will exercise faith in Christ and seek the truth with real intent.  This is somewhat beyond the question that you posed, but a very significant principle in its own right and one that is related.  Do you believe in the power of the Holy Ghost?

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13 hours ago, Kevinw said:

I would be careful about testing all prophecy by the standards of Matt Dillahunty.  Some prophecies have been very specific (for instance, the prophecies about Cyrus the great in Isaiah 44 and 45).  Other prophecies, however, have been far less specific (for instance, the prophecy of Christ in Numbers 24).  For the latter, I believe that it is important to seek the inspiration of the Holy Ghost because if the Holy Ghost reveals the meaning of a prophecy to us, then we can know the meaning even though the language of the prophecy is vague.  More generally, the power of the Holy Ghost can guide us into all truth if we will exercise faith in Christ and seek the truth with real intent.  This is somewhat beyond the question that you posed, but a very significant principle in its own right and one that is related.  Do you believe in the power of the Holy Ghost?

Do I believe in the power of the Holy Ghost?  No.  My reason for saying that is because I see way too much inconsistency with what Christians think the scriptures are saying. I also don't see a consistent difference between Christians and non-Christians with regard to how they live their lives.  I don't necessarily mean smoking and drinking but how they treat other people.  I don't see a supernatural advantage for Christians who claim to leverage supernatural power.  

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I suspect that you will have a hard time understanding any prophecy if you don't believe in the power of the Holy Ghost.

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"when a baby dies they go to heaven." ! Whoops! Where in the Bible are we told that?

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2 hours ago, Soy Richard said:

"when a baby dies they go to heaven." ! Whoops! Where in the Bible are we told that?

That is discussed in other threads.  This thread is not about that.

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