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Bonky

Confused about prophecy

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On 9/4/2015 at 10:30 AM, Bonky said:

I never really explored biblical prophecy in great detail but lately I've been a little more curious.   I was listening to Matt Dillahunty discuss prophecy and what he thinks constitutes a meaningful/valid prophecy.   I felt that he had some fair points that he made.  For example:

The prophecy must not predict likely events.

The prophecy shouldn't be vague

The prophecy must somehow be falsifiable or verifiable. etc

I was browsing the prophecy board and I see various discussions about various prophecies, what I also see are opinions about the who/what/where of these prophecies.  Nothing seems to be able to be nailed down and settled.  I'm just interested in understanding what value these prophecies have if everyone and their cat can claim what they think it means but nobody really knows.  

I'm aware that there are prophecies in the OT that people claim actually came true, once again I haven't examined all of these in great detail but I recall the ones I was shown to one degree or another don't satisfy the requirements [partially] listed above.  

I've not read all 10 pages... so I'll just throw this out there. Prophecy is show that God knows the end from the beginning.

Isaiah 46:9-10 (KJV)
Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me,  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:  

I'm going to give you two prophecies that you can look up right now and verify for yourself. Of course there are many other examples, but they're require more work.

#1 DESERT BLOSSOM AS THE ROSE

Isaiah 35:1 “The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.”

Because there is a hidden understanding written within the Hebrew, below is the same verse with Strong’s words.

Isaiah 35:1 The wilderness מדבר and the solitary place ציה shall be glad פרח and blossom ,גיל shall rejoice ערבה for them; and the desert שוש חבצלת as the rose

Strong’s Definition:

Desert ערבה aravah’ pronounce ‘ar-aw-vaw’

from 6150 (in the sense of sterility); a desert; especially (with the article prefix) the (generally) sterile valley of the Jordan and its continuation to the Red Sea:--Aravah, champaign, desert, evening, heaven, plain, wilderness

Edit: Video deleted by Omegaman 3.0 Videos are only allowed in the Video section of the forums.

 

Today, Israel is a major exporter of fruits and vegetables. Due to political and climatological reasons, the export fluctuates. Though I mention this as a fulfillment of prophecy, I truly believe this is at the least, a start. Just twenty years ago, most of farms in Arava did not exist. The issue is water. Think about it, Arava is translated in the King James as desert because that is what it is. Over time, soon, the area will transform when water becomes more abundant.

Several years ago, the USGS told Israel they thought that there might be oil under this area, so Israel drilled a hole 1500 feet down and they struck water. A man-made lake – but I believe it’s a fulfillment. Notice the reeds. From this pool, they irrigate many farms that grow everything year round because the water is 72 F year-round.

#2 LAST DAYS TWO SEAS

The Dead Sea has become two seas...in fulfillment of prophecy:

Ezekiel 47:8-11 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.”

In order for the verse eight to be fulfilled, verse eleven needs to be in place. Over the last sixty years, this has been happening. Notice that by 2001 (even until today) the lower part of the Dead Sea has become a salt farm ... they shall be given to salt.” Even some maps don’t show the lower part as being part of the Dead Sea.

From NASA
landsat_dead_sea_salt_eob77592.png

The lines at the bottom "sea" are the salt farms... here's a site about it: 

http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/09/what-is-salt-science-taste-flavorant.html

The top part has not yet been healed, but when the feet of Jesus touch the Mt. of Olives, it will split north and south creating an east-west valley. Perry Stone mentioned that a huge reservoir deep under Mt. Moria.

Zechariah 14:4 “And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.”

Joel 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.”

Shittim is in Moab, which is today, Jordan. The “house of the Lord” is on the temple mount and the Mt. of Olives is just east of it.

I'll close on this... if God and prophesy were not real, why are there still Jews on the planet? Yet, after thousands of years of programs, they still exist. They were born in a day, May 15, 1948, by declaration of the League of Nations. By the way, that fulfilled this verse:

Isaiah 66:8 (KJV)
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? [or] shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.  

Real prophecy is from God to show He is indeed.

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On 9/4/2015 at 10:30 AM, Bonky said:

 

I was browsing the prophecy board and I see various discussions about various prophecies, what I also see are opinions about the who/what/where of these prophecies.  Nothing seems to be able to be nailed down and settled.  I'm just interested in understanding what value these prophecies have if everyone and their cat can claim what they think it means but nobody really knows.  

I'm aware that there are prophecies in the OT that people claim actually came true, once again I haven't examined all of these in great detail but I recall the ones I was shown to one degree or another don't satisfy the requirements [partially] listed above.  

Revelations describes exactly what will occur here on Earth.  There is a difference of opinion on what that entails.  Revelations is a prophecy and no one that is Christian disputes that.  All that is disputed is what it entails.  

What you are seeing is the dispute.  I recommend then to not look at disputes, until you've grown in the holy spirit enough to be ok with people doing their best to interrupt that which remains a mystery to them.  

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On 4.09.2015 at 7:30 PM, Bonky said:

I never really explored biblical prophecy in great detail but lately I've been a little more curious.   I was listening to Matt Dillahunty discuss prophecy and what he thinks constitutes a meaningful/valid prophecy.   I felt that he had some fair points that he made.  For example:

The prophecy must not predict likely events.

The prophecy shouldn't be vague

The prophecy must somehow be falsifiable or verifiable. etc

I was browsing the prophecy board and I see various discussions about various prophecies, what I also see are opinions about the who/what/where of these prophecies.  Nothing seems to be able to be nailed down and settled.  I'm just interested in understanding what value these prophecies have if everyone and their cat can claim what they think it means but nobody really knows.  

I'm aware that there are prophecies in the OT that people claim actually came true, once again I haven't examined all of these in great detail but I recall the ones I was shown to one degree or another don't satisfy the requirements [partially] listed above.  

You have promise by God that he will not do anything before he make prophecy for us (Amos 3:7). When Jesus Christ came to die on cross for our sins , he fullfilled 350+ prophecy which were alredy translated from Hebrew to Greek 300+ years before he come and were commonly used as  LXX translation.

You can see fullfilled prophecy of Jesus Christ here : http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html

Bible has about 20-30% prophecy in it , everything will be fullfilled ( Matthew 5:18) .

So yes , there are fullfilled prophecy like Jerusalem in 1948 . Go to 19th book of bible ( Psalms) 48 chapter and read it or you can read it here : http://www.alphanewsdaily.com/mathprophecy2.html

All bible prophecy , including Armageddon , antichrist and 1000 year kingdom will be soon fullfilled aswell .

 

Edited by Amazing Horse
adding bible vers

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On 9/4/2015 at 6:30 PM, Bonky said:

I never really explored biblical prophecy in great detail but lately I've been a little more curious.   I was listening to Matt Dillahunty discuss prophecy and what he thinks constitutes a meaningful/valid prophecy.   I felt that he had some fair points that he made.  For example:

The prophecy must not predict likely events.

The prophecy shouldn't be vague

The prophecy must somehow be falsifiable or verifiable. etc

I was browsing the prophecy board and I see various discussions about various prophecies, what I also see are opinions about the who/what/where of these prophecies.  Nothing seems to be able to be nailed down and settled.  I'm just interested in understanding what value these prophecies have if everyone and their cat can claim what they think it means but nobody really knows.  

I'm aware that there are prophecies in the OT that people claim actually came true, once again I haven't examined all of these in great detail but I recall the ones I was shown to one degree or another don't satisfy the requirements [partially] listed above.  

I am really glad that you are looking at prophesies. It is generally one way Christians find to increase their faith. However, as you have maybe noticed already, a good deal of "discussion" goes on as to the veracity and understanding of some prophesies. I would also add that the adversary is probably most interested in this subject and he will try to confuse.
Some of the "banned books" support the prophesies as well. Keep praying and studying.
The Lord Yeshua is THE master at the game of move and counter-move. He will not let you be sidetracked for long if you trust in Him to guide you. Like a pastor once told me, "Yeah, it has bones - just pick the meat off the bones. Don't chew the bones.".

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Irony aplenty. An unbeliever, by his own admission, asks for some advice on how to best understand prophecy, because he finds it confusing, which in this day and age is entirely understandable. Following his query is a discussion on the meaning of the term 'unbeliever', then a debate between Guestman and Eileenhat, (bonky could close his case on that discussion alone) interspersed with numerous people saying prophecy cannot be understood by unbelievers because its a mystery. Huh? So how come all the debate between believers?

Sorry bonky...dont blame you one little bit for being confused.

Edited by brakelite
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On 9/4/2015 at 8:30 PM, Bonky said:

I never really explored biblical prophecy in great detail but lately I've been a little more curious.   I was listening to Matt Dillahunty discuss prophecy and what he thinks constitutes a meaningful/valid prophecy.   I felt that he had some fair points that he made.  For example:

The prophecy must not predict likely events.

The prophecy shouldn't be vague

The prophecy must somehow be falsifiable or verifiable. etc

I was browsing the prophecy board and I see various discussions about various prophecies, what I also see are opinions about the who/what/where of these prophecies.  Nothing seems to be able to be nailed down and settled.  I'm just interested in understanding what value these prophecies have if everyone and their cat can claim what they think it means but nobody really knows.  

I'm aware that there are prophecies in the OT that people claim actually came true, once again I haven't examined all of these in great detail but I recall the ones I was shown to one degree or another don't satisfy the requirements [partially] listed above.  

 

scriptural(biblical) prophecies are not predictions, but explanations for spiritual things, for example, the difference between spiritual things of the true God and spiritual things of the wicked one; of course if prophecies say e.g. that God is more powerful than satan and that He will overcome him completely and permanently and will close and lock him to the end of the eternity, that doesn't mean it won't happen, and yet this fact doesn't make scriptural prophecies predictions, because prediction predicts that something e.g. bad will happen without explaining that people can prevent it and the way they could do it, while prophecy explains that in principle something e.g. bad may happen if certain people don't do certain things, but it doesn't say (categorically) that the bad thing will certainly and inevitably happen

let's take for example the case of judas iscariot; the scriptural prophecy hadn't said that judas iscariot will betray Jesus, but it had said that in principle "judah" might be a traitor of the true Lord God, the true Saints and Their righteousness, which means "jews" i.e. religious people that don't have the true faith, and we can read from the Bible that religious people, and especially so-called scribes and pharisees, had been the ones that persecuted and killed true Saints and Prophets, and such people were the ones that sentenced the Lord, Jesus, to death in the court, and persecuted and killed His disciples and brought them before kings and governors afterward; and unfortunately, judas iscariot, who was one of the twelve disciples of Jesus, turned out to be a traitor who betrayed the Lord, and His disciples say in their writings that the prophecy was kind of fulfilled that way, but they don't say that that fulfillment of the prophecy was entirely according to the truth of the true Lord God, because Jesus and judas were actually victims of the spiritual conspiracy of the kingdom of satan, which is the world of human(666) spirituality/religiosity (Daniel 11:24-25); so the great traitors were great spiritual law brakers/violators (in that case some of the then scribes and pharisees) (much more than judas)

Blessings

Edited by ytLiJC

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On 9/4/2015 at 8:30 PM, Bonky said:

I never really explored biblical prophecy in great detail but lately I've been a little more curious.   I was listening to Matt Dillahunty discuss prophecy and what he thinks constitutes a meaningful/valid prophecy.   I felt that he had some fair points that he made.  For example:

The prophecy must not predict likely events.

The prophecy shouldn't be vague

The prophecy must somehow be falsifiable or verifiable. etc

I was browsing the prophecy board and I see various discussions about various prophecies, what I also see are opinions about the who/what/where of these prophecies.  Nothing seems to be able to be nailed down and settled.  I'm just interested in understanding what value these prophecies have if everyone and their cat can claim what they think it means but nobody really knows.  

I'm aware that there are prophecies in the OT that people claim actually came true, once again I haven't examined all of these in great detail but I recall the ones I was shown to one degree or another don't satisfy the requirements [partially] listed above.  

Most prophecies are vague. I think prophecies teach patience and they also encourage. As a rule they are not instructions for better deposits. It is no good to rely on prophecies alone without faith as it is sometimes done in the mass media. 

Edited by vlad

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On 9/4/2015 at 3:09 PM, Bonky said:

I don't know why everyone is so sensitive about this.  This is bizarre, what is so bad about admitting that you were a non-believer before being a believer?  It's not like your salvation is at stake for agreeing with that.  At any rate, all I was trying to say was that just because I'm a non-believer now it doesn't mean I will be tomorrow or a week or a month from now.  Accusing me of "atheist propaganda" is rather rude.  The proper thing would be to ask me to explain myself more to maybe understand what I'm saying rather than assume the worst and try to paint me as some trouble maker.  

Hi Bonky,

“Please forgive them, they know not what they say.”

i think they got a bit hung up on the term “non-believer.” They must have thought you meant everyone who hasn’t professed faith in Christ is/was an  atheist. (I’m not really sure what they thought, but they obviously misunderstood you and attacked THEIR own misunderstanding of the meaning of “believer.”

They don’t see that word for what it really means in the Bible... yes, it means to believe, but also has the action of “commitment” in its meaning from the Greek language. (Sorry to bore you with that) 

whether you meant to or not, you rightfully said that before people “committed” to Christ, they were “uncommitted.” This is true, even if they were not professing atheists. I got what (I think) you meant...

regarding some of the individuals who have tossed stubblingblocks in your way of finding answers.... some of them have attacked me as well, and will, (as they have), even attack truth unwittingly. 

I’ve been a Bible researcher for 30 years, a theologian for 15 of those, a teacher for the past 20 years and have preached (in conservative Churches)... yet some on this forum think me a heretic...(shhh, don’t tell them I know what I’m talking about). Seriously though, my so-called credentials mean nothing to me, and I hope to you as well, but it goes to show you that no matter how deeply and honestly you search and ask for guidance, there are some, even well-meaning, who will try to cram you into the box of their belief system.

i was once an atheist, but managed to dodge the obstacles  of personal doctrines to learn the truth. Jesus once said,

“Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.” 

I guess that’s my advice to you. Good luck. 

 

 

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On 11/25/2017 at 7:53 AM, Guest said:

Hi Bonky,

“Please forgive them, they know not what they say.”

i think they got a bit hung up on the term “non-believer.” They must have thought you meant everyone who hasn’t professed faith in Christ is/was an  atheist. (I’m not really sure what they thought, but they obviously misunderstood you and attacked THEIR own misunderstanding of the meaning of “believer.”

They don’t see that word for what it really means in the Bible... yes, it means to believe, but also has the action of “commitment” in its meaning from the Greek language. (Sorry to bore you with that) 

whether you meant to or not, you rightfully said that before people “committed” to Christ, they were “uncommitted.” This is true, even if they were not professing atheists. I got what (I think) you meant...

regarding some of the individuals who have tossed stubblingblocks in your way of finding answers.... some of them have attacked me as well, and will, (as they have), even attack truth unwittingly. 

I’ve been a Bible researcher for 30 years, a theologian for 15 of those, a teacher for the past 20 years and have preached (in conservative Churches)... yet some on this forum think me a heretic...(shhh, don’t tell them I know what I’m talking about). Seriously though, my so-called credentials mean nothing to me, and I hope to you as well, but it goes to show you that no matter how deeply and honestly you search and ask for guidance, there are some, even well-meaning, who will try to cram you into the box of their belief system.

i was once an atheist, but managed to dodge the obstacles  of personal doctrines to learn the truth. Jesus once said,

“Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.” 

I guess that’s my advice to you. Good luck. 

 

 

Very nice!

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Posted (edited)
On 9/4/2015 at 1:30 PM, Bonky said:

I never really explored biblical prophecy in great detail but lately I've been a little more curious.   I was listening to Matt Dillahunty discuss prophecy and what he thinks constitutes a meaningful/valid prophecy.   I felt that he had some fair points that he made.  For example:

The prophecy must not predict likely events.

The prophecy shouldn't be vague

The prophecy must somehow be falsifiable or verifiable. etc

I was browsing the prophecy board and I see various discussions about various prophecies, what I also see are opinions about the who/what/where of these prophecies.  Nothing seems to be able to be nailed down and settled.  I'm just interested in understanding what value these prophecies have if everyone and their cat can claim what they think it means but nobody really knows.  

I'm aware that there are prophecies in the OT that people claim actually came true, once again I haven't examined all of these in great detail but I recall the ones I was shown to one degree or another don't satisfy the requirements [partially] listed above.  

Yes, real prophecy will be detailed (at least most of the time when coming from someone with the actual role of Prophet). Also, if someone claims to have a prophecy from God and it does not come true, even once, they are a false prophet and it didn't come from God (Deuteronomy 18:16). 

Also, contrary to popular belief, prophecies were normally bad news (but not always). Normally they were warnings for people who were doing things they shouldn't and they normally detailed the consequences of not listening.  

 

Edited by jrd

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