What Atheist Believe

[Bonky]

30 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

Sorry, Bonky, but it's only nonbelievers who 'don't know who did it'.  To believers it has been proved already.

Which believers?  I assume specifically the creator you believe in but all others are wrong?  I appreciate that you have a view on this, I just don't share your confidence.   That is something I find to be a problem in religion in general, so much confidence in something we clearly [humans] know so little about.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Bonky

[RustyAngeL]

 

Which believers?  I assume specifically the creator you believe in but all others are wrong?  I appreciate that you have a view on this, I just don't share your confidence.   That is something I find to be a problem in religion in general, so much confidence in something we clearly [humans] know so little about.

I know that I know God is real.  So many blessings, so may gifts and loved unconditionally.  Only God can do that.  And when it comes right down to it the burden of proof is on you the non believer, not on us but rather the non believers.

[Enoch2021]

On 4/8/2016 at 11:58 AM, Bonky said:

Which believers?  

Me

 

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I assume specifically the creator you believe in but all others are wrong?

What 'Other' CREATORS?  There can be only one CREAT-"OR".

 

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I appreciate that you have a view on this, I just don't share your confidence.

Based on....?   

 

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That is something I find to be a problem in religion in general...

It is "YOU" that adhere's to 'Religion'....Materialism/Realism.  As a matter of fact, it's Blind/Deaf/Dumb and Scientifically Falsified 'Religion'.

The quintessential attribute or the sine qua non of 'Religion' is... Belief without Evidence.

Materialism/Realism's quintessential tenet is that there is a world "Matter" outside perception/consciousness.

Ahhh, can you please provide evidence and VALIDATE this...? If not, welcome to your Scientifically Falsified 'Religion'. 

To overturn this Scientific Falsification; whereby invalidating Idealism (Christianity, which is not a "religion" btw) and as an ancillary benefit collect yourself a 'Feather in your Cap' Nobel Prize...

Please take up the Quantum Randi Challenge (arXiv:1207.5294, 23 July 2012)....

A Nobel Prize is being offered: All you have to do is...

Prove Naive Realism or Local Realism is True and not Observation Dependent.

I'll monitor the Presses. 

 

regards

[Qnts2]

On 2/23/2016 at 5:20 PM, siegi91 said:

The first law of thermodynamics state that energy is conserved.

The energy of the Universe totals to zero, according to latest measurement. That is what my avatar also says, in quantum mechanical form.

Since matter is equal to energy, and energy equals to zero, I am not sure what creation of matter you are addressing. You seem to indicate that "creation" entails a miraculous violation of the first principle.

 

It does not. 

 

False.

The creator is the sum total of all existing energy. There is no violation of the first principle. Therefore, for energy to exist apart from the pre-existence of energy would be a miraculous violation of the first principle. 

Since the creator is the sum total of all existing energy, and energy can be transformed from one form to another, the creator can set the creation in motion by transforming energy. Since God is spirit and not matter, matter is not equal to energy. Energy is independent of matter in classic physics. The basic law of a body at rest remains at rest, or the absence of energy. A ball at the lowest point can not move as their is no potential energy until energy is applied by an external force.  

Quantum physics is only a theory of how things work at a particle level, but quantum physics has some major flaws. The basis of quantum physics is that a measurement of a particle can reveal measurements of another particle without actually measuring the secondary particle. That alone proves God exists but is denied by quantum physics which starts by denying the existence of God. Even looking at Plancks constant which is the quantum of action but ask any Quantum physicist about the origin or even definition of this quantum, the answer is, it makes the equation work. They deny that the constant is undefinable and is an assumption, but the undefinable constant is God.  

I had to take Quantum Physics as a pre-req to semi-conductor device physics. It was easy to see the major flaw in Quantum Physics. But scripture says it best.

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

Quantum Physics appeals to the mathematical intellect, but never really answers any questions. It is a study of creation with a lot of assumptions because it violates the laws of physics, so it needs assumption to explain how things work.

[Enoch2021]

2 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

Quantum physics is only a theory of how things work at a particle level, but quantum physics has some major flaws.

Say What?

Quantum Mechanics is the Crown Jewel of Science/Physics/Philosophy.  Without it, we'd be back in the Stone Age Technologically Speaking.

"The Laws of Physics are always Quantum Mechanical Laws...you don't have separate laws for big and small things. The real question is: how do these very same laws when applied to big things, by big things I mean the things you see in daily life, GIVE THE IMPRESSION that the world is Newtonian?". {emphasis mine}

Ramamurti Shankar; Professor of Physics, Yale. 

Quantum Mechanics II.  (33:50 mark)

 

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The basis of quantum physics is that a measurement of a particle can reveal measurements of another particle without actually measuring the secondary particle.

That's Entanglement and "Non-Locality"... which is one of the quintessential attributes of QM. 

The Basis of Quantum Mechanics IMHO is...

Independent of Observation/Measurement/ "a Creator and/or KNOWER" of the 'which-path information'... particles have no defined properties or location. They exist in a state of a Wave Function which is a series of Potentialities rather than actual objects. That is, "Matter" doesn't exist as a Wave of Energy prior to observation but as a Wave of Potentialities.

 

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1. That alone proves God exists  2. but is denied by quantum physics which starts by denying the existence of God.

 

1.  Yes it surely does.

 

2. Many (not all) Quantum 'Physicists' deny the Slap on the Forehead conclusions of Quantum Mechanics Experiments. Why? Well because the EXPERIMENTAL Confirmations ( In the Literal Thousands, Without Exception! ) have very deep ramifications for "What Reality IS"; Ergo....World-Views.

Since the Majority of Scientists have an "a priori" adherence to Materialism/Realism/Material Reductionism... the Scientific Evidence of Quantum Mechanics (The most successful branch of Physics in History) stands in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to " IT ".

That puts them in a very Uncomfortable Position ("VISE like")...you can either RECKON with The Scientific Evidence and adjust your World-View accordingly OR....Close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and Say La La La over and over and let Cognitive Dissonance Rule the Roost!!
Then start "Labeling" it as Quantum: "Weirdness", 'Spooky", "Strangeness", "Paradoxical" ect that denotes a "Fringe Science" which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it Actually IS.

 

The "Paradox" only arises when your 'a priori' Presuppositions are Checkmated , and Materialists/Realists are Checkmated. That's when you start getting " Interpretations " 

 

 

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Quantum Physics appeals to the mathematical intellect 

It's SOOO much more.  

Math is Immaterial "Abstract" and @ BEST, merely "describes"... it "EXPLAINS" exactly Squat/Nada/Niente.  You do have QM Formalism, but none of it's derived...all they can do is study the experiments and apply some theoretical structure that "describes" what's happening.  

 

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but never really answers any questions.

It answers many questions, Including The Whole Ball of Wax...

"WHO" collapsed the Wave Function INITIALLY via Observation/"Knower" of the Path Information to CREATE REALITY... "Matter"?
Better still, WHO created "The Wave Function" so as to able to "COLLAPSE IT"....??  

 

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It is a study of creation with a lot of assumptions because it violates the laws of physics, so it needs assumption to explain how things work.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Respectfully, perhaps it's time for some refresher classes.

 

regards

[Qnts2]

2 hours ago, Enoch2021 said:

Say What?

Quantum Mechanics is the Crown Jewel of Science/Physics/Philosophy.  Without it, we'd be back in the Stone Age Technologically Speaking.

"The Laws of Physics are always Quantum Mechanical Laws...you don't have separate laws for big and small things. The real question is: how do these very same laws when applied to big things, by big things I mean the things you see in daily life, GIVE THE IMPRESSION that the world is Newtonian?". {emphasis mine}

Ramamurti Shankar; Professor of Physics, Yale. 

Quantum Mechanics II.  (33:50 mark)

 

That's Entanglement and "Non-Locality"... which is one of the quintessential attributes of QM. 

The Basis of Quantum Mechanics IMHO is...

Independent of Observation/Measurement/ "a Creator and/or KNOWER" of the 'which-path information'... particles have no defined properties or location. They exist in a state of a Wave Function which is a series of Potentialities rather than actual objects. That is, "Matter" doesn't exist as a Wave of Energy prior to observation but as a Wave of Potentialities.

 

 

1.  Yes it surely does.

 

2. Many (not all) Quantum 'Physicists' deny the Slap on the Forehead conclusions of Quantum Mechanics Experiments. Why? Well because the EXPERIMENTAL Confirmations ( In the Literal Thousands, Without Exception! ) have very deep ramifications for "What Reality IS"; Ergo....World-Views.

Since the Majority of Scientists have an "a priori" adherence to Materialism/Realism/Material Reductionism... the Scientific Evidence of Quantum Mechanics (The most successful branch of Physics in History) stands in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to " IT ".

That puts them in a very Uncomfortable Position ("VISE like")...you can either RECKON with The Scientific Evidence and adjust your World-View accordingly OR....Close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and Say La La La over and over and let Cognitive Dissonance Rule the Roost!!
Then start "Labeling" it as Quantum: "Weirdness", 'Spooky", "Strangeness", "Paradoxical" ect that denotes a "Fringe Science" which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it Actually IS.

 

The "Paradox" only arises when your 'a priori' Presuppositions are Checkmated , and Materialists/Realists are Checkmated. That's when you start getting " Interpretations " 

 

 

It's SOOO much more.  

Math is Immaterial "Abstract" and @ BEST, merely "describes"... it "EXPLAINS" exactly Squat/Nada/Niente.  You do have QM Formalism, but none of it's derived...all they can do is study the experiments and apply some theoretical structure that "describes" what's happening.  

 

It answers many questions, Including The Whole Ball of Wax...

"WHO" collapsed the Wave Function INITIALLY via Observation/"Knower" of the Path Information to CREATE REALITY... "Matter"?
Better still, WHO created "The Wave Function" so as to able to "COLLAPSE IT"....??  

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

Respectfully, perhaps it's time for some refresher classes.

 

regards

I am more a mathematician and was highly disappointed with quantum mechanics. Mathematics is highly logical. QM, I found not so much. My first disappointment was in the introduction of Planck's constant. Classical physics laws did not apply to particle physics so quantum physics had to search for alternate formula's to explain the nature of the particles. Since the classic physical laws did not work, Planck worked essentially backwards, plugging in a constant derived from the location of the electron. There was no understanding or explanation of this constant, just that the constant worked.

That was less then a scientific resolution but rather a work around to arrive at a working formula. So, quantum physics to me is a manipulation without a valid understanding. So to me, Quantum Physics is less science. Math is not abstract, math is absolute. It does not explain how things work but provides methods of deriving mathematically accurate computations to resolve problems.

So to me, Quantum Mechanics claims to explain the workings of the universe but actually explains nothing as it explains little. I like chemistry, and I like biology. Biology in particular does not claim to explain everything and readily admits to that inability but it is a study of how things function.

I started as a system programmer, and wanted to learn the junction between hardware and a system program which would be microcode but could find a job in microcode development. Instead, I found a job in chip develepment, where I coded macro's which regulated chip design and testing. I wanted to add to my arsenal of knowledge so I wanted to take semiconductor device physics. I did take quantum physics but that is the first science class which seemed silly to me. It thinks it answers the whole ball of wax but it proves more how little is known about the whole ball of wax.      

[Enoch2021]

1 hour ago, Qnts2 said:

I am more a mathematician    

That's kool, no problem.  But Math isn't Science.

 

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So to me, Quantum Mechanics claims to explain the workings of the universe but actually explains nothing as it explains little.

 Quantum Mechanics explains REALITY and is CONFIRMED by Validated Experiments -- (In the Literal Thousands...Without Exception !!) 

 

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Biology in particular does not claim to explain everything and readily admits to that inability but it is a study of how things function.

Biology doesn't: claim, say, sing, dance, run, jump, swim ect.  It has no vocal chords or penmanship skills.  To "claim" something takes sentience and intelligence i.e., it's not alive; Ergo...Reification Fallacy.

 

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It thinks it answers the whole ball of wax but it proves more how little is known about the whole ball of wax.

It doesn't "think" anything, it's not ALIVE. (SEE previous: Reification Fallacy).

It does Complete the Whole Ball of Wax.

If you like, we can discuss The Experiments?  For brevity, I have one that settles the matter 'abruptly' on all fronts.  Just say the word.  

 

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So to me, Quantum Physics is less science.

QM is more SCIENCE than any Discipline on the Planet!!  There's Literally Thousands of Validated Experiments ---- "Science".

What is Science...? 

Please post The Scientific Method....?

 

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Classical physics laws did not apply to particle physics so quantum physics had to search for alternate formula's to explain the nature of the particles.

They had to because Newtonian Physics didn't "Jive" with the simplest of Experiments --- "Science".  And...

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."--- Richard P. Feynman (Nobel Prize, Physics)

As stated previously, QM Formalism is not derived. 

Also mentioned and Cited, Quantum Laws are....The Laws of Physics.  Newtonian Laws/Classical Physics emerge from the Quantum Laws; however, they are domain specific.

 

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Math is not abstract, math is absolute.

Mathematics -- The abstract science of number, quantity, and space. Mathematics may be studied in its own right ( pure mathematics), or as it is applied to other disciplines such as physics and engineering ( applied mathematics). http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/mathematics

To refute, put 2658.67 x 6 in a jar and paint it red....? 

 

regards

[OakWood]

On 13/09/2015 at 4:14 AM, slobpig said:

I am a former christians , and now believe that God does not exist. I think people should have a open mind and learn about why people that  have this belief. That are great book called " How something came form nothing" . I would like to ask you some questions? How can you people believe in a  god that has killed children? How about Noah's Ark ?  How come the most Atheist nation are the most peaceful to live  in. I think people have the fear and want to believe that this life is not end . Mainly because we do not want to say good bye forever to our family. 

I not here to causes disrespect at all   just wanted to give you guys some insight about what people believe on the other fence 

ou mean peaceful counries like North Korea, China, Cuba, Russia and ALL muslim countries?  Yep, just peachy living in any of those.  Interesting username. 

Muslim believe in the same God as you do , so that is not Atheist counties  . Counties like Finland and Sweden very low crime rate Germany is another one. 

 

Yes, Muslim believe in the same God as Jews and Christians do. Allah is the  Aramaic  word for God  in Hebrew EL. It is just like saying Jesus or Yeshua  same name just in a  different language.

 The first five books  in all three  religions are  the same called Torah "law" ,and i am pretty sure  all of the Old Testament is the same but i will have to double check on that. It is the New Testament  causes the division in the three beliefs.   

How can you believe in a god that has killed children? I don't know - how can you believe in Hitler or Stalin? Do you think that these people never existed because you don't like what they did? Belief is based on truth and not upon what you want. That's rational thinking.

I don't like pedophilia, it doesn't mean that I don't believe that pedophiles exist.

Muslims DO NOT  believe in the same God as we do. God tells us that he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins. That is the key to salvation. Muslims believe that Jesus did not die on the cross,and that he was not the son of God? How can you claim that Muslims believe in the same God that we do, when they twist who God is and what he did for us? Anybody can lie and call two different people by the same name - it does not make them the same person. Just because Muslims claim to believe in Jesus it does not mean that their Jesus is the same as ours. If you'd actually bothered to research Islam and what it preaches, you wouldn't be saying what you have just said.

Have you not heard of Satan? Do you not know that he is a deceiver and a liar? Jesus died on the cross for our sins - Muslims preach that he did not. Don't you understand this? It's really simple. When Jesus died and was resurrected Satan was defeated, he had no comeback, therefore he lies and tries to twist who Jesus really was. The Bible warns us that this would happen. If you don't believe that Jesus died for us then you have no salvation. Islam is a false religion that tries to destroy salvation by making false claims about Jesus.

You think that you have come here to educate us but you know nothing. The New Testament has caused NO DIVISION between three beliefs. Mohammed created the false religion of Islam around 600 AD, over five hundred years after the Bible had been completed........ He was just one of many false prophets which the Bible warns us about.

[Tiglath]

On 9/13/2015 at 1:14 PM, slobpig said:

I am a former christians , and now believe that God does not exist. I think people should have a open mind and learn about why people that  have this belief. That are great book called " How something came form nothing" . I would like to ask you some questions? How can you people believe in a  god that has killed children? How about Noah's Ark ?  How come the most Atheist nation are the most peaceful to live  in. I think people have the fear and want to believe that this life is not end . Mainly because we do not want to say good bye forever to our family. 

I not here to causes disrespect at all   just wanted to give you guys some insight about what people believe on the other fence 

ou mean peaceful counries like North Korea, China, Cuba, Russia and ALL muslim countries?  Yep, just peachy living in any of those.  Interesting username. 

Muslim believe in the same God as you do , so that is not Atheist counties  . Counties like Finland and Sweden very low crime rate Germany is another one. 

 

Yes, Muslim believe in the same God as Jews and Christians do. Allah is the  Aramaic  word for God  in Hebrew EL. It is just like saying Jesus or Yeshua  same name just in a  different language.

 The first five books  in all three  religions are  the same called Torah "law" ,and i am pretty sure  all of the Old Testament is the same but i will have to double check on that. It is the New Testament  causes the division in the three beliefs.   

You're saying that God does not exist? You must have reasons that you don't believe in god? If we can make babies, create everything else in this World then someone did create the first men and women?

Tell me which atheist nation are the most peaceful to live in? Or maybe because they are one with Satan? No matter where you go in this world, there's Adversity because we live in a fallen World. Everywhere we look there are disasters, tragedies, trauma, misery, suffering, and loss. But what happens when our view of adversity becomes up close and personal? How does the Lord want us to respond when we come face to face with trials? And what is He trying to teach us through our difficulties? In 2 Corinthians 11:23-28, the apostle Paul described the various forms of adversity he experienced in his service for Christ—imprisonments, beatings, shipwrecks, exposure, hunger, thirst, and other dangers. Why would the Lord allow Paul, the man who introduced the Roman world to Jesus Christ, to suffer like this and be killed? from a human perspective, Paul’s suffering may seem unfair, but God used his hardships and pain to accomplish His will. During his imprisonment in Rome, Paul wrote Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians. And his letter to the Philippians was filled with joy because he understood that through adversity God accomplishes His divine purposes and works for our ultimate good.

As for the Old testament it was the old covenant between men and god and the new testament is the new covenant between men and god through resurrection of the lord Jesus Christ and defeating Satan on that Cross. The Christians were completely separated from the rest of religious groups such as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism through the resurrection of our lord Jesus Christ which many have failed to accept hence the separation. Non-believers will only be saved through the baptism of Christ and believing in Christ it's that's simple.

During Noah's time the people indeed were very wicked and the lord saved the righteous one including the living creatures...his just judge knows what's best.

Genesis 9:13-17  "I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds,  I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.¹⁶ Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.” So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”

Everyone blames the creator for children dying in this world, the sickness, the wars,  the slavery, but people never pause for a second and think about who's the ruler of this word? The fallen one. The interesting thing is that the Atheist don't believe in god exist yet they are always fighting him? Why would they fight someone if he doesn't exist?

What are the primary reasons people don’t listen to God?

• They don’t have a relationship with Him.
• Many people don’t expect the Lord to speak to them.
• The messages of the world drown out God’s voice.
• They don’t think He has ever spoken to them.
• Their minds are closed to His voice.
• People are too busy.
• They may fear the message.
• A poor self-image causes them to doubt that God would speak to them.
• Sometimes people are angry with the Lord.
• They have neglected reading and meditating on the Bible.
• Some people have a rebellious spirit.
• They are deceived by the sounds of the world.
• Sin has prevented them from hearing God.

How can we identify God’s voice?

• His voice will be consistent with His Word.
• His message will often conflict with human nature.
• It will always clash with fleshly ideas.
• The Lord challenges our faith.
• His voice is often quiet.
• He speaks specifically.

Who is Jesus Christ

• One is Christ, the Son of God
• Worshipped by all in two natures;
• In His Godhead begotten of the Father
• Without beginning, before all time;
• In His Manhood, born of Mary.
• In the Fullness of time, in a united body
• Neither His Godhead is of the nature of the mother,
• Nor His manhood of the nature of the Father;
• The Natures are preserved in their Qnumeh
• In One Person of One Sonship.

 

Edited April 17, 2016 by Tiglath

[Guest Robert]

On 9/13/2015 at 9:14 PM, slobpig said:

I am a former christians , and now believe that God does not exist. I think people should have a open mind and learn about why people that  have this belief. That are great book called " How something came form nothing" . I would like to ask you some questions? How can you people believe in a  god that has killed children? How about Noah's Ark ?  How come the most Atheist nation are the most peaceful to live  in. I think people have the fear and want to believe that this life is not end . Mainly because we do not want to say good bye forever to our family. 

I not here to causes disrespect at all   just wanted to give you guys some insight about what people believe on the other fence 

ou mean peaceful counries like North Korea, China, Cuba, Russia and ALL muslim countries?  Yep, just peachy living in any of those.  Interesting username. 

Muslim believe in the same God as you do , so that is not Atheist counties  . Counties like Finland and Sweden very low crime rate Germany is another one. 

 

Yes, Muslim believe in the same God as Jews and Christians do. Allah is the  Aramaic  word for God  in Hebrew EL. It is just like saying Jesus or Yeshua  same name just in a  different language.

 The first five books  in all three  religions are  the same called Torah "law" ,and i am pretty sure  all of the Old Testament is the same but i will have to double check on that. It is the New Testament  causes the division in the three beliefs.   

 

Let's take your comments one at a time here:

 

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" That are great book called " How something came form nothing" .

How can something come from nothing, when nothing has the power to cause anything? Even the "nothing" of space is a vacuum field seething with potential and subject to natural laws (and scientists do not claim space to be an "absolute" vacuum, as there are particles and molecules of matter in space, along with the "dark matter" they claim we cannot see. Energy, matter, "nuclear forces" (strong and weak) are all something, not nothing.

 

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"How can you people believe in a god that has killed children? "

Let's examine a few things here:

In the first place, God created mankind. That means that mankind belongs to God, and God therefore has the right to make rules by which mankind has to live. That also means that God has the right to do as He sees fit, including taking the life that He has given. And He warned man in the Garden that death would enter the world if he took the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet, man did that anyways, and death set foot on the planet because of his actions.

 

God did not make man take the fruit; he did that on his own initiative.

 

And because death entered the world, much of what we call "killing children" has been the most merciful thing God could have done. If you look closely at the situations where it had to happen, the children would ahve lived to become a new generation of monsters. And only God had the right to intervene in that manner. he created life; He has the right to take it.

 

Second; we accuse God of "killing children", yet have no qualms about doing it OURSELVES when it comes to abortion. If we're going to make that judgment call on God, we'd best not be doing that ourselves, should we? God has to act to judge a people like the Canaanites for their abominations, and we call Him a "monster". Yet, we consider a "fetus" just "a bit of tissue" and we are somehow NOBLE for that?

 

May I see a dictionary definition of "double standard", please?

 

Third: Atheism is in no place to judge God, because atheism has no ability to make moral judgments. According to the late Professor William Provine, Historian of Science at Cornell University :

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“Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent”

(Provine, February 12, 1998, University of Tennessee speech )

If according then to this, that "no ultimate foundation of ethics exists", then atheism has no basis for ethics, morality, or any objective standard other than the whims of its' adherents, prompted by the urging of its' own desires as well as those of Dawkins, Russel, Harris and the like. If that is the case, then it is not a moral judgment call upon God, but simply personal preferences. Which leads us back to my previous point: why would God then be a murderer, but we are simply "exercising choice" when we kill children in the womb? Are they not even more innocent than those born? Or was their crime one of inconveniencing us?

 

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"How about Noah's Ark ?"

How about it?

If you are referring to the common atheistic opposition to the Ark, let's look at some solid facts:

 

The Ark measured in at the dimensions of 300 cubits by 50 cubits byx0 cubits (a cubit being about 18 inches) according to Genesis 6:15. This would be roughly 459 feet by 75 feet by 44 feet, so its volume would then consist of a whopping 1.54 million cubic feet (the equivalent of 569 railroad boxcars)! The external dimensions would be analogous to a WWII Casablanca-class escort carrier. Since Noah didn't have to take the sea animals (whales, dolphins, sharks, fish, etc.), that meant only the land animals had to go in order to survive.

Now, considering that most animals on earth are not enormous (most are smaller than a cat), that means the land animals could have been taken with room to spare, with extra room for the larger ones where needed. Your average double deck box car could hold 240 sheep. So, the aforementioned "boxcars" could each hold 480 different kinds of birds, reptiles and amphibians, seeing as they are much smaller (two of them could fit in the space for one sheep).

Noah only had to take aboard the ark either two or seven of every kind of animal on the earth.  A "kind"t is generally considered to be those animals that can breed within their own groups. Any type of dog can breed with any other type of dog, so dogs are one kind.

Animal Type . . . . Number of Species . . . . Number of Kinds aboard the Ark 

Mammals . . . . . . . . .3,700 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,700

Birds . . . . . . . . . . . . 8,600 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60,200 (seven pairs,  Gen. 7:3)

Reptiles. . . . . . . . . . .6,300 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6,300

Amphibians. . . . . . . .2,500 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,500

Insects . . . . . . . . . . . 850,000                 (Kinda hard to count, but easily kept in a relatively small area.)

Total . . . . . . . . . . . .1,072,305 . . . . . . . . . . . . .72,700

The total number of animals would be 3,700 times two pair which equals 7,400 animals. 7,400 divided by 240 would equal 31 boxcars used.

The rest of that room would be available for food for both humans and animals, with still more room to spare.

 

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"How come the most Atheist nation are the most peaceful to live in"

 

The Communist contries had no god at all: the government was their "god" and we see how that turned out:

 

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"The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression, published by Harvard University Press, is the work of eleven scholars that ignited a continental firestorm when it first hit bookstores in France in 1997. The authors estimate the century's death toll at the hands of Communist governments (excluding wars) at 100 million people. Country by country, deaths by the state in China stand at 65 million, in the USSR 20 million, Vietnam 1 million, North Korea 2 million, Cambodia 2 million, Eastern Europe 1 million, Latin America 150,000, Africa 1.7 million, and Afghanistan 1.5 million. Additionally, the international Communist movement murdered about 10,000 people throughout the world." (Author's emphasis).

- Daniel J Flynn, "Ideas Have Consequences... Like Murder, Tyranny, and Repression," Accuracy in Academia, <http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/2000/March_2000_4.html> (9 July, 2008).

 

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"Counties like Finland and Sweden very low crime rate Germany is another one. "

Do you mean Sweden  where the rape rate is 63.5 compared to 27.3 in the US? Or Finland, which for its' size has an extremely high rate of alcohol- related murders?

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"Homicide statistics from Sweden, Finland and the Netherlands reveal significant differences in alcohol-related killings, weapon use and organised crime, and the overall prevalence of murder. Finland has more than twice as many murders than we have in Sweden," says Johanna Hagstedt, co-author of the study and researcher at The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention. "In that regard they are more similar to Eastern European countries than the Western part of the continent.The perpetrators in Finland are typically adult men who are socially marginalised and who have developed an addiction to alcohol," she says. A new cross-cultural study looked at the murder rates and characteristics of in the three countries, which share many similarities. The data was gathered in a statistical database and includes all cases of lethal violence during the years 2003-2006, not counting suicides, self-defense cases and lethal accidents.A total of 491 persons were killed in Finland during the four years, while it was 820 in the Netherlands and 355 in Sweden. Adjusted for differences in population size, Finland's murder rate was by far the highest – it was 85 percent higher than the Dutch rate and 140 percent higher than in Sweden, as measured by the amount of murders per 100,000 people. Over 82 percent of the perpetrators in Finland were intoxicated by alcohol in the act of murder, and 39 percent were described as alcoholics. In Sweden, a little more than half of all murderers were intoxicated, and a similar proportion of them were considered alcoholics."

- Science Nordic.com: "Alcohol behind Finland's high homicide rate" October 19, 2012   http://sciencenordic.com/alcohol-behind-finlands-high-homicide-rate

 

As for Germany being "safe" ask the Jews who live there today:

 

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According to a 2013 study by the EU Agency for Fundamental Rights, 64 percent of German Jews avoid the public display of symbols that would identify them as Jewish. It also found that only 28 percent of them report antisemitic incidents.

- Reuters.com: "German Jews fear rising antisemitism during Mideast refugee influx", Jan 26, 2016   http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-antisemitism-idUSKCN0V42H7

 

And this isn't just this year:

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Germany’s top security official said new statistics show a sharp rise in anti-Semitic offenses last year, as well as in crimes against foreigners. I nterior Minister Thomas de Maiziere told reporters Wednesday that anti-Semitic offenses rose 25.2 percent last year to 1,596 after declining in 2013. Crimes against foreigners were up 21.5 percent to 3,945.

- Times of Israel.com: "Germany sees 25.2% rise in anti-Semitic crime in 2014"  May 10, 2015   http://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-sees-25-2-rise-in-anti-semitic-crime-in-2014/

 

Then we come to your comment here:

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"Yes, Muslim believe in the same God as Jews and Christians do. Allah is the  Aramaic  word for God  in Hebrew EL. It is just like saying Jesus or Yeshua  same name just in a  different language."

 

If it's supposed to be the "same God", then why is Allah a liar and schemer in the Qur'an, and God never lies in the Bible?

 

Qu'ran:

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"And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. "  (Surah 3:54)

The Arabic word used in this surah for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. Doesn't sound like "Allah" likes the truth much, huh?

 

Now the Holy Bible:

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"Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior" ( Titus 1:1-3, NASB, emphasis mine)

Another passage reinforces this:

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" God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?" (Numbers 23:19, NASB, emphasis mine)

And there are yet more that reinforce that God (the Biblical God, NOT "Allah") does not lie, deceive nor attempt to use falsehoos for His means.

We can go on in our comparisons, such as who Jesus is (the Bible calls Him "The Son of God", while the Qu'ran doesn't even believe "Allah" ever had a son), the Jewish people (The God of the Bible calls Israel "The Apple of My eye", while various surahs in the Qu'ran call for the outright murder of the Jews), salvation and so forth. But when you read the two texts, you see that "Allah" and God CANNOT be the same person AT ALL.

 

Your last comment:

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 The first five books  in all three  religions are  the same called Torah "law" ,and i am pretty sure  all of the Old Testament is the same but i will have to double check on that. It is the New Testament  causes the division in the three beliefs.   

While Islam has some regard for "The Torah" (supposedly, they believe it has been altered. And yes: the New Testament DOES cause division in the beliefs....

 

AS IT SHOULD.

 

Jesus said His coming would cause division and "would set the members of a household at variance":

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“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39“He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39, NASB)

The Gospel of the Cross acts as a "wedge" that forces us off the "fence" of ambiguity and indecision, and makes us choose between Jesus Christ and this world. That can mean (as I have experienced) that family members may despise and even hate you for choosing the Lord over the things of this world, including even them. It does not mean we do not love our families, but we hold God above all things and will not even set our family above Him.

Judaism was the faith that was in place until the coming of Jesus Christ; in His death on the Cross at Calvary, he did not "set aside" the Law, but FULFILLED it and it's requirement for our sin.

Islam is a "pastiche" of various beliefs that come from many sources. But in the end, the Qu'ran is a mess, and cannot convey any truth because IT IS NOT FROM GOD.

The only thing that can save is the Blood of Christ, shed for us on Calvary's rough-hewn hill. No "religion" can save you, no "moral code" can, nothing else.

 

Slobpig, you say you "no longer believe in God"; if these are your "reasons" why, then you have been taken by a system of belief that has admitted they are not as "rational' as they claim. You know better, but still cling to their mantra. Let me share something with you that the humanist author Aldous Huxley wrote in his book "Ends and Means":

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“I had motives for not wanting the world to have a meaning; and consequently assumed that it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption. The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics. He is also concerned to prove that there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do. For myself, as no doubt for most of my friends, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom. The supporters of this system claimed that it embodied the meaning - the Christian meaning, they insisted - of the world. There was one admirably simple method of confuting these people and justifying ourselves in our erotic revolt: we would deny that the world had any meaning whatever.” -Aldous Huxley

Huxley wasn't going by "reason"; he went by the feeling he had that he wanted to do as he pleased with NO ONE telling him it was "wrong". And even today, the New Atheists cling to this line of thought.

 

Christ died for you, Slobpig; atheism doesn't care one whit about what happens to you.

 

YOUR MOVE>

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by RobertS
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