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144,000 are first fruits?


Pamelasv

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8 minutes ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

I notice you totally ignore responding to these scriptures, but you would need to in order to keep your false teaching. 

1 Timothy 1:4 
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith.
 
Galatians 3:16 
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

I have not ignored them.  Look through the thread.  They are answered.

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1 hour ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Pick 'n' mix Christians. :wacko:

What does that mean?

Nevertheless, here is a snip-it of the meaning of seed as written in Galatians 3:16

σπέρμα

sperma

G4690

Seed, both what is sown as containing the germ of the fruit, and what is growing out of the seed sown, produce.  Originally sperma was used of the plants as seed (Matthew 13:24, 27, 32, 37, 38: Mark 4:31; 1 Corinthians 15:38; 2 Corinthians 9:10).  In 1 John 3:9 the sperma of God denotes the power of God operative through the Holy Spirit working in the believers.  Also figuratively used of living beings as the seed of man; i.e. posterity or descendants.  By implication, sperma means a remnant, a few survivors, such as those remaining from the former year (Romans 9:29).

 …

The word continues in its collective meaning in the NT (Revelation 12:17).  Thus it denotes immediate descendants, children (Matthew 22:24, 25; Mark 12: 19-22; Like 20:28).  The expression “the seed of David” (John 7:42; Romans 1:3’ 2 Timothy 2:8) means progeny, prosterity (see Acts 13:23).  Similarly with “the seed of Abraham” (a.t.[Luke 1:55; John 8:33, 37; Acts 3:25; 7:5,6; 13:23; Romans 4:13, 16, 18; 11:1; 2 Corinthians 11:22; Galatians 3:19; Hebrews 2:16; 11:18])

You see, just as Jesus is the seed of Abraham, so are all others in Abraham's lineage.

Scripture should always dictate our doctrine, doctrine should never dictate the meaning of scripture.

 

 

 

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Replacement Theology is an abomination. It is unbiblical, and it has resulted in virulent anti-Semitism that has in turn resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews.

There is no reason for the Church to be covetous of the promises that God has made to the Jewish people. He has also made some glorious promises to the Church, one of which is the Rapture. Additionally we have been promised that we will reign with him over all the nations of the world during his Millennial kingdom. And we have been promised that we will live with Him eternally on a New Earth in a New Jerusalem in new, Glorified Bodies.

It is no wonder that Paul wrote: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, nor has the mind of man conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him” (1 Corinthians 2:9).

God’s Sovereignty

One of the fundamental underlying messages of this presentation is that God is in control. He is on His throne. He is sovereign. And He has the wisdom and the power to orchestrate all the evil of Man and Satan to the triumph of His Son in history.

God has already proved this point with His response to the Cross. He took the most dastardly act in the history of Mankind and transformed it into the most glorious through the resurrection of His Son.

Satan’s Frustration

Satan has got to be the most frustrated character in all the universe. And just as he was frustrated in murdering God’s Son, He will be frustrated in murdering God’s Chosen People.

For a great remnant of the Jewish people is going to live to the end of the Tribulation. They will be brought to the end of themselves.

Israel’s Salvation

And when Jesus appears in His Second Coming,

“…they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn” (Zechariah 12:10)

They will receive Yeshua as their Messiah, and they will cry out “Baruch Haba B’Shem Adonai.” (Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!) What a glorious day that will be. What glory it will bring to the name of God.

Meanwhile, as we await that day, let us meet each new day with the cry of “Maranatha! Maranatha! Come quickly Lord Jesus!”

 

http://christinprophecy.org/articles/the-evil-of-replacement-theology/

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17 minutes ago, eileenhat said:

I will add one tiny tidbit...did you know the very first christian Church, established only 4 years post Jesus's crucifixion was in Glastonbury England?

Easy to google.  Here is one on it...as just an example

http://www.arian-catholic.org/arian/firstchurchinbritain.html

 

In Acts 2:45-47, we read about the first church, though it had no building like we have today.

So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

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On 10/19/2015 at 5:42 PM, Pamelasv said:

Read Revelation 14:1-5

It says this 144,000 from Isreal (cross reference is Rev 7:4 ).  Are first fruits.  What does signify to you?  

To me. I havent had a fruitfull study or revelation on it that is strong enough to make a case. I have looked at a few different view points and the scriptures used to make the argument. The link i am posting has some biblical history and really good food for thought.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/86/t/who-will-sing-the-song-the-144000-of-revelation-14

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On 20/03/2017 at 5:24 AM, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

And you think the 144,000 are Jews who will reign with Christ? NO! All Jews will go to Hell. Only Christians will reign with Christ. You are preaching a false gospel.  

When is Jesus Coming?

Even though the Jews rejected Christ, they won't all be going to hell, because God has reserved a remnant.

Not all Jews though, only those according to "the election of grace".

The Jews will be brought back into the kingdom on earth (millennium) from all generations.

The difference is they are saved by Mercy, not because of belief but because of God's promise to Abraham (his physical descendants) that Israel will be restored after the Messiah's return.  They will be blessed by the Lord, and Christ will open their eyes.

Having said that, there are many Jews before Christ that followed God with a pure heart, and kept all of God's commandments.  They heard about their Messiah but did not personally know him nor suffered for Christ's sake.  For this reason they cannot take part in the first resurrection.  Not because of anything they did wrong, but because of that era they were born in, and God's plan.

Before anyone can receive their "change" they have to be in Christ.  "No man can come to the Father but by me"

God is going to do a marvelous thing with Israel.  They will be a light to the world.

The other difference is that the Jews that will be brought back into the kingdom during the millennium, will be brought back in the flesh.

 

This is a very touchy subject, and it upsets many.

My viewpoint is similar to yours, and every one who's been on here for a while knows that.

The 12 tribes of Israel are Jews, no doubt,

but the 144,000 who are grafted into the 12 tribes are more likely gentiles.  There could be Jews in that number, if they follow the Lamb, because when it comes to Christ all are one, and not divided by race, but by the heart of faith.

They don't replace Israel, but are the first-fruits of all Christians - the firstfruits receive the promises first, the rest of the Christians are taken up after them.  They are also grafted into the tribes.

The apostles who are Jews, and the 24 elders are above the 144,000.

 

 Isaiah 61:5   And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

  Isaiah 61:6   But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

  Isaiah 61:7   For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

 

see Rev 18:6, Jeremiah 17:8

 

1 Timothy 5:17   Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

The elders get double honour, also those who labour in the word and doctrine.  There are only 144,00 sealed who follow Christ, no more.  This could be anyone who's heart is for Christ.  It doesn't mean that gentiles are excluded.

 

 

 

 

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The 144000 are of Israel only [Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-7] ... the first to believe in the coming tribulation period

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Romans 10:12   For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

  1 Corinthians 1:22   For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

  1 Corinthians 1:23   But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

  1 Corinthians 1:24   But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 Galatians 3:28   There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

  Colossians 3:11   Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

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 Acts 20:32   And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

  Acts 26:18   To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Colossians 3:24   Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
 

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6 minutes ago, Sister said:

 

 

 

 

Romans 10:12   For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

  1 Corinthians 1:22   For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

  1 Corinthians 1:23   But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

  1 Corinthians 1:24   But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 

 Galatians 3:28   There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

  Colossians 3:11   Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

 

3 minutes ago, Sister said:

 Acts 20:32   And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

  Acts 26:18   To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Colossians 3:24   Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
 

I don't think anyone here would ever deny that we are to receive the same as anyone, Jew or Greek, as long as we remain in Him.  Do you think that the 144,000 will be from the true bloodline of the 12 tribes?

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