DO YOU BELIEVE ITS OKAY TO EAT PORK, AS A BELIEVER IN GOD ?

[((Michael))]

On 3/31/2016 at 9:56 PM, Qnts2 said:

Peter was not going against God as it was God Who told him to eat. The Mosaic covenant is not the New Covenant and vice versa. The New Covenant includes Gentiles while the Mosaic covenant did not include Gentiles. That Gentiles are included makes the covenant very unique, just as preaching the gospel makes the New Covenant very unique. For Jews and Gentiles to live as one people, the Mosaic law can not be in force, and to avoid violating the Mosaic covenant which contains the Mosaic law, one can not pick and choose which Mosaic laws one is to observe as that violates the Mosaic covenant. 

As I said, there are Mosaic laws which require that bread be in conformity to be Kosher.

The problem with what you said is that part of it is assumption, part goes against what is being said in scripture, and part violates the Mosaic law. I am looking at it from Jewish eyes, not a Gentile view of one who wants to keep some of the law. Such groups as One Law or Two House, who want to keep the Mosaic law (for the wrong reasons) offer arguments which are actually a violation of the Mosaic covenant and a misunderstanding of the OT and NT. Because I was raised under the Mosaic covenant, moving forward into the New Covenant, I recognize some of the arguments in the NT as Jewish arguments and I understand the discussion between Peter and the other Jewish believers from a perspective of the Mosaic law.

As I've said before, it is a problem for a Jewish person to eat in the home of a Gentile, and in the time of Jesus, it was a much greater issue without some of the modern things like refrigeration, food packaging, etc. Peter stayed for a few days in the home of Cornelius, and clearly ate. Peter when questioned did not deny eating and he made no argument about keeping Kosher. Instead he told about the vision of the sheet with food which was not Kosher. That means he ate non-Kosher food.  

And, as I've said before, just because the meat comes from a cow, does not make it fit to eat. So, while it is permitted to eat beef, that does not mean all beef is fit for food so not all beef is Kosher. Likewise, not all chicken is fit for food.  

I am not commenting on Kosher vs non Kosher, but I question whether the Gentile was not included in the Mosaic covenant. I read the following passages suggesting that God has always allowed Gentiles who wanted to join themselves to Him in the old covenant as well.

Isaiah 56:3-6New American Standard Bible (NASB)

³ Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say,
“The Lord will surely separate me from His people.”
Nor let the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.”

⁶ “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;

 

Exodus 12:48-49New American Standard Bible (NASB)

⁴⁸ But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. ⁴⁹ The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.”

Numbers 15:¹⁶ There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”

Ezekiel 47:22-23²² You shall divide it by lot for an inheritance among yourselves and among the aliens who stay in your midst, who bring forth sons in your midst. And they shall be to you as the native-born among the sons of Israel; they shall be allotted an inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. ²³ And in the tribe with which the alien stays, there you shall givehim his inheritance,” declares the Lord God.

Ezekiel 14:7⁷ For anyone of the house of Israel or of the immigrants who stay in Israel who separates himself from Me, sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet to inquire of Me for himself, I the Lord will be brought to answer him in My own person.

 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, ((Michael)) said:

I am not commenting on Kosher vs non Kosher, but I question whether the Gentile was not included in the Mosaic covenant. I read the following passages suggesting that God has always allowed Gentiles who wanted to join themselves to Him in the old covenant as well.

Isaiah 56:3-6New American Standard Bible (NASB)

³ Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say,
“The Lord will surely separate me from His people.”
Nor let the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.”

⁶ “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;

 

Exodus 12:48-49New American Standard Bible (NASB)

⁴⁸ But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. ⁴⁹ The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.”

Numbers 15:¹⁶ There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”

Ezekiel 47:22-23²² You shall divide it by lot for an inheritance among yourselves and among the aliens who stay in your midst, who bring forth sons in your midst. And they shall be to you as the native-born among the sons of Israel; they shall be allotted an inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. ²³ And in the tribe with which the alien stays, there you shall givehim his inheritance,” declares the Lord God.

Ezekiel 14:7⁷ For anyone of the house of Israel or of the immigrants who stay in Israel who separates himself from Me, sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet to inquire of Me for himself, I the Lord will be brought to answer him in My own person.

 

Excellent post.............

Yes Circumcision was necessary under Moses law to have citizenship. There was no priestly mediation apart from tribal affiliation.

Ex 28:21  And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.
Ex 28:29  And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the LORD continually.
Ex 39:6  And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel.
Ex 39:14  And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, every one with his name, according to the twelve tribes.

Ephesians 2 speaks of this.

The high priest (anointed one, Messiah) bore their names for a memorial.

See Cornelius, in Jesus the Christ priesthood.

Acts 10:1  There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2  A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3  He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4  And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
 

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, HAZARD said:

I know I posted this somewhere on this thread;

 

Col. 2:16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat,6 or in drink, or in respect7 of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

I used to, not any more

I am not quite sure, if I am reading to much in your post, or if it just happens to be in the scripture you posted, but it may have to do nothing with you.

"Are you suggesting that if someone leaves in a halal household, that he is at liberty to eat non halal food, and tell the others in the same household, that he is not following the halal rules in this specific household, for their must be a number of different orders of halal traditions. 

If you could clarify that I will very much oblige. 

[kwikphilly]

Quote

A new testament believer has no prohibitions about eating pork, but if your heart says you cant then dont. and if you are entertaining some one in your home that does have issues with pork- please don't give him a BLT sandwich. The old dietary laws where given to the pre- Jesus Jews but they do not apply to us today.

I base this on the story when Peter saw in a dream a table cloth coming down from heaven with all kinds of "unclean" foods on it and the Lord told him to eat. It was to show that in the new dispensation nothing was unclean ( particularly the relation of the Jews to the gentiles)

                                                               posted by woundeddog

I believe this is Understanding & Wisdom,Praise Jesus                                      With love-in Christ,Kwik

The Topic was for the "Believer" I think,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I know the Title if the Thread was "Believer in God",perhaps that is the part that needs  clarification,,,,,I think it should have been titled "A Born-Again Believer",,,,,,,the Born Again Believer is not under the Law,but GRACE

[Your closest friendnt]

15 hours ago, woundeddog said:

a new testament believer has no prohibitions about eating pork, but if your heart says you cant then dont. and if you are entertaining some one in your home that does have issues with pork- please don't give him a BLT sandwich. The old dietary laws where given to the pre- Jesus Jews but they do not apply to us today.

I base this on the story when Peter saw in a dream a table cloth coming down from heaven with all kinds of "unclean" foods on it and the Lord told him to eat. It was to show that in the new dispensation nothing was unclean ( particularly the relation of the Jews to the gentiles)

Hello WD, are you referring to the Jewish believers at the time of Paul's ministry, who may be wondering that all the time we wanted and desired to eat pork, but it was forbidden in our pre-Christ culture. 

And they were wondering (Jewish believers in Jesus), are we going to be condemned if we eat pork or not? 

This is a two fold or maybe thriaces fold question.

a) For condemnation could come from Jesus Christ our Lord. Or the Holy Spirit.

b) Also condemnation could come from other believers who abstain from these meats. And the Spirit that rule's them in this matter.

c) Condemnation also can come from within our own selfs, our own conciense. For one time we may approve and later we may disapprove. 

d) It could also come from the public's opinion (the culture), whether believers or not. 

We can say the same thing for approval, following the same scenarios.

Or reverse the majority group and make it a minority.

 In the end remains the question.

If Jesus disaproves, what may be the Consequences from him.

Or if other people disaproves, what may be the consequences from them. 

 

 

[woundeddog]

7 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hello WD, are you referring to the Jewish believers at the time of Paul's ministry, who may be wondering that all the time we wanted and desired to eat pork, but it was forbidden in our pre-Christ culture. 

And they were wondering (Jewish believers in Jesus), are we going to be condemned if we eat pork or not? 

This is a two fold or maybe thriaces fold question.

a) For condemnation could come from Jesus Christ our Lord. Or the Holy Spirit.

b) Also condemnation could come from other believers who abstain from these meats. And the Spirit that rule's them in this matter.

c) Condemnation also can come from within our own selfs, our own conciense. For one time we may approve and later we may disapprove. 

d) It could also come from the public's opinion (the culture), whether believers or not. 

We can say the same thing for approval, following the same scenarios.

Or reverse the majority group and make it a minority.

 In the end remains the question.

If Jesus disaproves, what may be the Consequences from him.

Or if other people disaproves, what may be the consequences from them. 

 

 

ya, that's what I said-- if you don't think you can, then don't. but if you do its okay

[Your closest friendnt]

X

13 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hello WD, are you referring to the Jewish believers at the time of Paul's ministry, who may be wondering that all the time we wanted and desired to eat pork, but it was forbidden in our pre-Christ culture. 

And they were wondering (Jewish believers in Jesus), are we going to be condemned if we eat pork or not? 

This is a two fold or maybe thriaces fold question.

a) For condemnation could come from Jesus Christ our Lord. Or the Holy Spirit.

b) Also condemnation could come from other believers who abstain from these meats. And the Spirit that rule's them in this matter.

c) Condemnation also can come from within our own selfs, our own conciense. For one time we may approve and later we may disapprove. 

d) It could also come from the public's opinion (the culture), whether believers or not. 

We can say the same thing for approval, following the same scenarios.

Or reverse the majority group and make it a minority.

 In the end remains the question.

If Jesus disaproves, what may be the Consequences from him.

Or if other people disaproves, what may be the consequences from them. 

 

 

X

3 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

ya, that's what I said-- if you don't think you can, then don't. but if you do its okay

Hello WD, I am reading your response, but I don't see in it anything that is addressing the way issues that I have raise seeking to clarification of the broad statement and ID the different groups that may be involved.

I only see the attitude of is me, it is only about me and my self.

Well that it may apply if someone is totally isolated from other people.

And you have not commented if Paul was addressing Jewish who had come to believe in Jesus Christ, and or Gentile believers who wanted to live as Jewish. 

[woundeddog]

6 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

And you have not commented if Paul was addressing Jewish who had come to believe in Jesus Christ, and or Gentile believers who wanted to live as Jewish.

well my original post suggested that I based my belief that eating Pork was okay by the narrative of Peter (who was a Jew)

was given a sign from God in the form of the table cloth loaded with unclean foods and the Lord said take eat---- so I was inferring that Jewish believers would be able to eat pork without reproach as long as their conscience allowed it because they where free from the old dietary prohibitions--- Gentile believers could eat pork because they had never been under the old Law and therefore where free to eat-- I also mentioned that if you would be a stumbling block to some one who did not hold the same beliefs you shouldn't do it.

so what I guess II was saying it appears to be a simple matter, why make it harder than it has to be?

Now A Jew that has never come to Faith in Christ should not eat pork--- but that would be the least of his worries

 

[Your closest friendnt]

X

45 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hello WD, are you referring to the Jewish believers at the time of Paul's ministry, who may be wondering that all the time we wanted and desired to eat pork, but it was forbidden in our pre-Christ culture. 

And they were wondering (Jewish believers in Jesus), are we going to be condemned if we eat pork or not? 

This is a two fold or maybe thriaces fold question.

a) For condemnation could come from Jesus Christ our Lord. Or the Holy Spirit.

b) Also condemnation could come from other believers who abstain from these meats. And the Spirit that rule's them in this matter.

c) Condemnation also can come from within our own selfs, our own conciense. For one time we may approve and later we may disapprove. 

d) It could also come from the public's opinion (the culture), whether believers or not. 

We can say the same thing for approval, following the same scenarios.

Or reverse the majority group and make it a minority.

 In the end remains the question.

If Jesus disaproves, what may be the Consequences from him.

Or if other people disaproves, what may be the consequences from them. 

 

 

X

34 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

ya, that's what I said-- if you don't think you can, then don't. but if you do its okay

Hello WD, I am reading your response, but I don't see in it anything that is addressing the way issues that I have raise seeking to clarification of the broad statement and ID the different groups that may be involved.

I only see the attitude of is me, it is only about me and my self.

Well that it may apply if someone is totally isolated from other people.

And you have not commented if Paul was addressing Jewish who had come to believe in Jesus Christ, and or Gentile believers who wanted to live as Jewish. 

X

5 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

well my original post suggested that I based my belief that eating Pork was okay by the narrative of Peter (who was a Jew)

was given a sign from God in the form of the table cloth loaded with unclean foods and the Lord said take eat---- so I was inferring that Jewish believers would be able to eat pork without reproach as long as their conscience allowed it because they where free from the old dietary prohibitions--- Gentile believers could eat pork because they had never been under the old Law and therefore where free to eat-- I also mentioned that if you would be a stumbling block to some one who did not hold the same beliefs you shouldn't do it.

so what I guess II was saying it appears to be a simple matter, why make it harder than it has to be?

Now A Jew that has never come to Faith in Christ should not eat pork--- but that would be the least of his worries

 

Are you trying to tell me something, the vision of Peter.

Is that your foundation for your post, did you see Peter going around and preaching to Jewish believers "eat pork and all other prohibited foods", because Jesus show me the vision, and he made dinner for me, and Invited me to eat from a heavenly menu, ( do you want me to mentioned the items in the menu),

Was this the propose of the vision?

[Willa]

Gal 2:21  NKJV I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."  Gal 3:3  Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT CONTINUE IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM." :11  But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Gal 3:12  Yet the law is not of faith, but "THE MAN WHO DOES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."  :13  Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"),  :14  that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

However, I eat pork that is well done to avoid trichinosis from worms; and I limit my bacon, ham, and corned beef due to the nitrates used in curing them which have been shown to be as dangerous as smoking.  A portion once a week is my limit.  

I find it strange that some bacon lovers might eat a lot of cured pork but are afraid of retinyl palmitate, cholecalciferol, d-alpha-tocopheryl acetate, or cyanocobalamin.  These vitamins are often used to fortify milk or bread when processing removes them.  I am wary of unpasteurized milk and honey.