Watch!!!!

[Dakila777]

I am sorry, but I won't be able to post the rest of this...my browser does not work with the forum and I cannot get it to post.

In His Love,

Suzanne

When I have long posts on this forum,  I create the post in Word and then paste it over here.  It's way faster and there are fewer headaches.

Wondering why the headaches continue. But I do the same.

A simple text editor suffices. Never tried using Word in WCF, but have seen posts with ugly formatting because they have been pasted from a word processor.

[Dakila777]

 

Christ's return is not

  imminent.  2 Thessalonians 2 dismantles the imminence argument single-handedly.  It states that the apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin happens

before

the resurrection / rapture.

No doctrine can be established on the basis of one verse, so you have a problem right there.  What does the entire New Testament reveal about the imminent return of Christ for the Church?  That should be our focus.  We are already in the midst of the Great Apostasy, but the Man of Sin cannot be revealed until the Restrainer -- the Holy Spirit -- is "taken out of the way" (2 Thess 2:6,7). But here is the truth amount the imminent return of Christ (Mt 25:1-13)

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

This is only one of several passages which reveal the IMMINENT return of Christ for the Church. Christ is the Divine Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride.

  

[Dakila777]

Christ's return is not

imminent.  2 Thessalonians 2 dismantles the imminence argument single-handedly.  It states that the apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin happens before the resurrection / rapture.

 No doctrine can be established on the basis of one verse, so you have a problem right there.  What does the entire New Testament reveal about the imminent return of Christ for the Church?  That should be our focus.  We are already in the midst of the Great Apostasy, but the Man of Sin cannot be revealed until the Restrainer -- the Holy Spirit -- is "taken out of the way" (2 Thess 2:6,7). But here is the truth about the imminent return of Christ (Mt 25:1-13)

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

This is only one of several passages (along with Mt 24:36-51) which reveal the IMMINENT return of Christ for the Church. Christ is the Divine Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride. This is a solid Bible doctrine, not a myth.

 

  

[rollinTHUNDER]

This message was impressed upon me, as I was in the middle of hearing a sermon regarding the church of Laodicea.....but this passage in regard to the church  of Sardis, struck me profoundly.  It was a very stark warning that I have seen before, but I had not studied in depth....it is a warning for believers.

 

 

Rev. 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember 

therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. 

Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 

 

 

Rev. 16:15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."          

 

Sounds familiar, right?

 

 

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour a your Lord is coming. 

 

43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, 

he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 

44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. 

 

 

 

The message is given from Jesus, many times!

 

 

 

 

 

Mark 13:

33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.

34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch.

35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning--

36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping.

37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"

 

 

 

 

Why is Jesus so fervent about this?  Notice the contrast........sleeping/watching.  We know it’s not really about “sleeping”, what then?

 

 

 

We can also see this message repeated in 1 Thess. 5:

 

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Suzanne,

To keep watch means to be ready.  He gave us signs that we might know when His coming is near, right at the door. 

Here's my take from my website.  You can skip the first paragraph... http://roberthunt.tateauthor.com/about-the-boo/

 

Cheers

Edited November 11, 2015 by rollinTHUNDER

[gdemoss]

Thanks for the heads up.  Good timely warning against living ungodly lives of unbelief for those who he delivered from Egypt were slain in the wilderness afterward for unbelief.  Those who despise the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness will not escape though they be of the church.  The tares must be bound to be burned.  You will know them by their fruit.

[tsth]

Why is Jesus so fervent about this?  Notice the contrast........sleeping/watching.  We know it’s not really about “sleeping”, what then?

We can also see this message repeated in 1 Thess 5:

 

 

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 

2 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 

6 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

Let us not “sleep”?

 

Sleep

 

Strongs #2518

Katheudo

 

·  to fall asleep, drop off to sleep

·  to sleep 

1. to sleep normally 

2. euphemistically, to be dead 

3. metaph. 

1. to yield to sloth and sin 

2. to be indifferent to one's salvation

Watch and be “sober”?

 

Watch

 

Derived from the root word: Egeiro

Which means: · to arouse from sleep, to awake 

 

Strongs #1127

Gregoreuo-

Definition

1. to watch 2. metaph. give strict attention to, be cautious, active  1. to take heed lest through remission and indolence some destructive calamity suddenly overtake one

 

 

[Hindsfeet]

watching/sleeping

Mar 14:32-42 KJV - 32 And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane: and he saith to his disciples, Sit ye here, while I shall pray. 33 And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy; 34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. 35 And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. 36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. 37 And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour? 38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak. 39 And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words. 40 And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him. 41 And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.

I see this as a foreshadow of the second advent - in phases is his coming, up to the resurrection (here) - (when satan is cast down, perhaps)

[Sister]

Hi tsth

That message was not just for the last generation who will see the coming, but for all generations of the past also.  Well the past generations are dead now, many for over 2000 years, and they will not be alive to see the coming, so I take it as meaning something much more deeper.

Stay awake at all times.  In other words, be alert, be in the spirit of Christ. Make sure we don't die in our sins, for once we die, nothing can change, no more chance to repent. Many Christians do start of strong and full of faith, but sometimes the temptations of the world can get the better of us, and old ways can creep back in and we find ourselves not walking in the Lord.  Now, none of us know when we are going to die, but we must all die some day and if we die in our sins, then our house has been broken into. The Lord came at a time we were not ready.  So the Lord can come at anytime,... at a time we are not prepared, ...not prepared to die, because if we knew our time was up, we would of done all we could to ensure our passage into the Kingdom, but because we think we've got forever to get our walk right with him, "I'll repent soon, but not now", it could be too late.

If we are strong in the faith and loyal servants till our death, then we have stayed "awake", watching for our souls constantly by doing all that Christ commanded us and will be blameless and not "asleep" in the spirit, but endured to the end, ...the end of our life.

So stay on guard at all times.  When he comes, the dead in Christ will be woken up at the resurrection, and if we died not in Christ, we will be woken up at the 2nd judgement and sorely disappointed in ourselves.  Either way, we are woken up to face the judge and will receive salvation or condemnation.  The judge is always at the door.

John 7:6   Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.

 

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

im•mi•nent

(ˈɪm ə nənt)

adj.

1. likely to occur at any moment; impending: Her death is imminent.

The imminent return of Christ for the Church was a doctrine generally held by evangelical and fundamental Christians. However, because of tremendous opposition to the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, that doctrine has been muddied and weakened, especially by date-setters and anti-Dispensationalists.

Christ's frequent warnings to believers to be constantly watching for His return means that He can come at any moment. Paul and the Christians of the apostolic churches expected His return at any moment, and so should we.  Only God knows when Christ will come for His saints. In the meantime we are commanded to watch and pray, be eternally vigilant, and be always abounding in the work of the Lord. The metaphor of soldiers in a battle is apt.

Christ's return is not imminent.  2 Thessalonians 2 dismantles the imminence argument single-handedly.  It states that the apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin happens before the resurrection / rapture.

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.  2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

The opposition to the pre-trib rapture is coming about because people are beginning to see that it's only a fantasy which has no scriptural basis.  I'm one of them.  It's demise has nothing to do with date setters or some dispensation view.

The part in orange is the resurrection / rapture.  The part in green is the revealing of the false prophet.  The green part must come before the orange part, therefore, imminence is a myth.  And please don't try and tell me that the apostasy is a reference to the rapture because that makes even less sense.  I've actually heard that attempt at explaining it away.

The belief in the imminent return of Christ by the first Chirstians is indeed NOT a myth my friend.

 

[Last Daze]

Christ's return is not

imminent.  2 Thessalonians 2 dismantles the imminence argument single-handedly.  It states that the apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin happens before the resurrection / rapture.

 No doctrine can be established on the basis of one verse, so you have a problem right there.  What does the entire New Testament reveal about the imminent return of Christ for the Church?  That should be our focus.  We are already in the midst of the Great Apostasy, but the Man of Sin cannot be revealed until the Restrainer -- the Holy Spirit -- is "taken out of the way" (2 Thess 2:6,7). But here is the truth about the imminent return of Christ (Mt 25:1-13)

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

This is only one of several passages (along with Mt 24:36-51) which reveal the IMMINENT return of Christ for the Church. Christ is the Divine Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride. This is a solid Bible doctrine, not a myth.

Don't be presumptuous, Ezra.  I was just demonstrating how flimsy your imminence defense is.  One passage and all your tap-dancing about "day or hour" is for naught.  Not knowing the day or hour means just that.  It doesn't lend any credence to imminence whatsoever.

There are plenty more verses.  Here's the corroboration which not only dismantles imminence but the whole pre-trib notion.

• But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s [1] at His coming, then comes [2] the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  1 Corinthians 15:23-24
• Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.  Revelation 20:4-5

Notice in the first verse that there are two resurrections unto immortality yet to come.  The second verse clearly states that included in the first resurrection are those who did not worship the beast and receive the mark.  Of necessity, the first resurrection happens after the great tribulation because those who gave their lives rather than worship the beast are in it.  There can not be a prior resurrection / rapture.  It really is that simple.

I have a lot more direct support as well but that should suffice.  You really need to give preference to what the Bible plainly says.  People have an uncanny knack for believing what they want to believe.  Evolutionists are a prime example.  Until you approach the subject without prejudice, you will always find a way to explain away what you don't want to accept.  I was in the pre-trib camp for years.  I know.

The pre-trib rapture fosters a sense of false hope.  It is not sound Bible doctrine.  It is a house of cards with no support.  Don't wait until the winds of the great tribulation blow it down to realize that.