Just what the heck IS the water??

[Leonardo Von]

On 11/10/2015 at 10:11 PM, Pamelasv said:

! John 5-7

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

 

On 11/11/2015 at 7:43 AM, *Zion* said:

Maybe it's referring to baptism as a physical manifestation/symbol of being born again?

 

On 12/11/2015 at 0:30 PM, Littlelambseativy said:

When we are physically born from our mother, we pass through the water and blood. When we are reborn in new birth we pass through the water and blood shed by our Lord and Saviour. That is why it is called "New Birth". Why else would the Bible make a point of mentioning "water and blood" poured from output Saviour's side when He was pierced? That symbolism is so strongly connected.

Dear sisters,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

As you yourself said, Pamelasv, water represents the Word of the Eternal. What is being emphasized in this excerpt is that Jesus did not come simply as a great teacher, that is to say, just to teach the truth. Jesus came to live the truth and give his life so that this truth could be lived also in all those who believe in Him.

To be more exact: Jesus did not come only by the blood, that is, to give His life for the sinners so that they could live uncommittedly with the truth. Much less did Jesus come alone by the water, that is, to reveal the truth to the people so that the unoccupied had something to discuss (as in Athens - Acts 17: 18-21) and the corrupt of understanding had to extort the unlearned and unsuspecting (2 Peter 1.2-3).

Jesus came so that we beheld the beauty of His holiness and could experience it in our lives. That Jesus works it in us all.

[Retrobyter]

On 11/10/2015 at 7:11 PM, Pamelasv said:

! John 5-7

'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God?  This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood.  It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify:  The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.'

 

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

Shabbat shalom, Pamelasv.

John 3:5-8
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
KJV

Have you considered the phrase, "her water broke?" This is what is meant by "being born of water"; not baptism or the Word or anything else. The "being born of spirit" is a phrase that refers to how one is born anew into God's family by the Ruach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit).

So, when one breaks out of the uterus and the "water breaks" and he or she descends the birth canal, one is "born of the flesh."

Do you remember Nicodemus' reply to Yeshua`s original statement just before these verses?

John 3:4
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
KJV

Do you remember what the definition of "antichrist" is; where it was found in Scripture?

1 John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
KJV

2 John 6-7
6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
KJV

So, when Yochanan (John) said in 1 John 5 ...

1 John 5:1-6
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
KJV

... he's talking about Yeshua` being physically born by water loss, and then Yeshua`s Resurrection after His death by blood loss.

[Littlelambseativy]

Tho' I have not read all posts by any means, remember that born of water and blood refers to human birth...one not born as human has no right to heaven e.g. Nephelim etc. and spiritual birth, born by the water and blood shed on the cross from our Saviour's side. The Holy Spirit is the conduit to Spiritual birth as instructed by Jesus after resurrection.

[Retrobyter]

6 minutes ago, Littlelambseativy said:

Tho' I have not read all posts by any means, remember that born of water and blood refers to human birth...one not born as human has no right to heaven e.g. Nephelim etc. and spiritual birth, born by the water and blood shed on the cross from our Saviour's side. The Holy Spirit is the conduit to Spiritual birth as instructed by Jesus after resurrection.

Shabbat shalom, Littlelambseativy.

The n'filiym ("Nephelim"), plural of nefiyl, was an OCCUPATION, not a people!

OT:5303 nefiyl (nef-eel'); or nephil (nef-eel'); from OT:5307; properly, a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant:
KJV - giant.

OT:5307 naafal (naw-fal'); a primitive root; to fall, in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative):
KJV - be accepted, cast (downself,, [lots], out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell (-ing), fugitive, have [inheritance], inferior, be judged [by mistake for OT:6419], lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present (-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out,  surely, throw down.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Therefore, they were "woodcutters" or "lumberjacks!" Don't let weird teachings from the book of "Enoch" confuse you.

[Littlelambseativy]

Excuse me! But The farthest thing from my thoughts was the Book of Enoch. I was using the Bible alone ...I could have used ' anything not born of woman' .

[Jewels7]

I very much enjoy Biblehub for reading and understanding commentary as relates to scripture. 

The site there says that this particular verse is wanting in traditional Greek MSS. In my opinion that's telling me that it isn't meant to be understood because it is not of God. http://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_john/5-7.htm

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, Littlelambseativy said:

Excuse me! But The farthest thing from my thoughts was the Book of Enoch. I was using the Bible alone ...I could have used ' anything not born of woman' .

Shabbat shalom, Littlelambseativy.

Forgive me, please. I didn't mean to come across as being mean-spirited. I was just trying to point out that "n'filiym" was not a non-human race or people, as is so often taught. Even Dr. Tony Evans, whom I greatly respect, admire and appreciate, has taught this way about Genesis 6. I just believe there's a better understanding of that passage, and that there's nothing mysterious about the term "n'filiym." They were bullies, as is often the case when human beings, stronger than others by virtue of their occupation and physique, take advantage of other human beings.

I use capital letters, even bold-faced, to emphasize points, not to "yell." (I probably should get out of that habit. Too many comic books as a kid.) You're right, of course, that "anything not born of woman" is correct, although I would have preferred "has no right to God's future Kingdom," rather than "has no right to heaven."

Again, I'm sorry for coming across too aggressively.

P.S. Does "north of 40 degrees" refer to Nebraska? I was born north of 42 degrees 30 minutes N latitude (Wisconsin).

Edited February 12, 2017 by Retrobyter
To add a P.S.

[Littlelambseativy]

Apology most graciously accepted.

 

[JohnD]

The Spirit

John 4:24 (AV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The Water

Revelation 17:15 (AV)
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The Blood

Luke 22:20 (AV)
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.