*Zion* Posted November 16, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Also, I will add that as long as we are on the journey with Christ as our Lord, God and Saviour, our maturity should not really matter in this context, as we will be seeking Him out that we can actually grow to our next step in maturity in Him: John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: He doesn't say: my mature sheep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted November 16, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Jeff, the Truth is spirit in His nature, and has come to us in the flesh, and indeed has already overcome the world. Whether we fully accept Him or not is what is being discussed. Is there any area of reality that He can reveal to you, that you would not be able to accept? That's the question. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walty Posted November 16, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 75 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/27/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/14/1971 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I would like to chime my 2 cents on this topic. Not to be over simplistic, met many Christians in my life, to various degrees of spiritual maturity, some are thinkers, others are doers, and some fit in the middle. I've seen, and heard many things involving God and his awesomeness, and I realize (and still learning) certain attributes of God do not change. Matter of fact, he's put a plan together l that hasn't changed and will not change. We who are in Christ will be judged by this plan, and then (later) all the ungodly will be taken out of hell ans will also be judged also.I've learned the devil is very intellectual. To the point that humanity with its very elect will be duped by his desceptions of philosophy and ponderings. Remember it was satan who tried to tempt our Lord in the wilderness using scriptures and philosophy. I believe we are given a measure of the Holy Spirit at time of "true" salvaltuon, knowing that not everyone who professes to be save is saved. To understand real Godly truth, it takes God within to reveal to our understanding, or else we wouldn't understand the depths of it. This is why Jesus spoke in parables at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 16, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 40,796 Content Per Day: 7.95 Reputation: 21,263 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I would like to chime my 2 cents on this topic. Not to be over simplistic, met many Christians in my life, to various degrees of spiritual maturity, some are thinkers, others are doers, and some fit in the middle. I've seen, and heard many things involving God and his awesomeness, and I realize (and still learning) certain attributes of God do not change. Matter of fact, he's put a plan together l that hasn't changed and will not change. We who are in Christ will be judged by this plan, and then (later) all the ungodly will be taken out of hell ans will also be judged also.I've learned the devil is very intellectual. To the point that humanity with its very elect will be duped by his desceptions of philosophy and ponderings. Remember it was satan who tried to tempt our Lord in the wilderness using scriptures and philosophy. I believe we are given a measure of the Holy Spirit at time of "true" salvaltuon, knowing that not everyone who professes to be save is saved. To understand real Godly truth, it takes God within to reveal to our understanding, or else we wouldn't understand the depths of it. This is why Jesus spoke in parables at times.Just for a point of contention - when we divide out intellect as great or least we have already set apart that which God does not consider valid for our reason!He has placed equal value in all for He 'IS' greatest and least without end and the least of Him is no difference then the greatest without end! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeinChrist Posted November 16, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 192 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/29/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2015 And ye shall know the truth and the truth, shall make you free. John 8:32 Jesus words to the Jews, later Jesus tells us that the word is truth, John 17:17. But as so many have already stated unfortunately many believers don't follow this, sometimes because of honest misunderstanding of scriptures and sometimes it is just willful disobedience. In John 3:19-20 it speaks of those who are evil who hate the light; but the believers in our Lord Jesus Christ our spoken of this way: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:21 James speak of believers who do not follow the truth of God's word as being hearers of the word and not doers who deceive themselves, James 1:22-24. But he describes those who are doers as being bless: But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. James 1:25 And when we consider that in James 1:22 we are told to be a doer of the word, yet James states a doer of the work in 1:25; I think it leave one to wonder if this is what James mean about dead faith for in James 2:12 he speaks of this law of liberty than perceive to tell us about faith without work being dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew T. Posted November 17, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 481 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 537 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/20/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/08/1959 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) I really don't know which section to put this thread in, nor how to form the question I really want to ask: I am asking this mostly because I want to see where others are coming from on this as a specific subject on its own.Good morning, Mam. I hope things are well for you over there in the City of Fog & Holmes this morning! If you don't mind, I'll just shoot from the hip in this with what little I have observed in my own life. A good, scriptural study would no doubt be beneficial. But if you don't mind, I'll just give you my thoughts over coffee this morning. I pray there might be something useful in my comments? But you will know that right off. So here goes:Living the life we do, in Jesus Christ, who is the Way, the Truth and the Life, accepting Him wholly as Lord and Saviour, we should always accept the truth, right?Yes. An overwhelming, BURNING, unquenchable desire for Truth should be within us. That said? Sometimes it can take a very long time for a follower of Christ to learn certain Truths. There will always be present within us a desire for Truth, an ongoing quest for that which Father wants us to know. But His Truths are eternal (without end). It would take a very long time to learn it all. I don't think we'll ever get there before we get Home. But? We'll always desire to learn.Therefore there should be no aspect or area of reality that we should not be able to accept as solid and real, right?True. But as I said above, sometimes that can be quite a long process, even for the most diligent of students of Jesus. There is so much confusion in this world. Last I checked, over 33,000 different "religions" and "denominations". In the United States, when someone even honestly comes to Christ, they no doubt are saved, but can very possibly start their "education" in error. Father sees the heart, thank God... but sometimes, our head is in the wrong places and it can take a very long time to overcome false teaching. False teaching by people that believe what they teach with all their hearts, loving Father with all their heart, but teaching in error never-the-less because that is what they've been taught since childhood. If one DILIGENTLY seeks the Truth, you can make progress. But false teaching can be a very hard thing to overcome. It can take a while.Is there any truth too hard to accept? The answer for us should be a resounding NO! right?No. This is the only thing that gets us over the hump of false teaching and error, no matter the source. Just as an example, when I came to Father to be saved? I was saved... immediately. Thank God it was on the correct terms in that I knew it was through Jesus only that I could be saved. But then for 12 years I was mis-educated. I was taught that more and more was up to "me" to "maintain" my salvation. I was taught that if I didn't maintain a certain standard, then it was possible I could "lose" my salvation. I was taught that it was a combination of what Jesus did for me PLUS my own actions on my own spiritual performance treadmill. For TWELVE YEARS I studied under many people... studied much independently, sought Father's heart every step of the way, but for 12 years learned of more and more in the Bible that seemed "contradictory" to me. It seemed contradictory because what men were teaching and what I was reading WAS/IS contradictory. But after 12 years of learning of a great many "contradictions", I saw the Light of Truth in what Jesus did do for me. Even after I had my nose to the trail of Truth, it took me MONTHS of "trying the spirit" before I would even speak with the wife about what I had come to realize. MONTHS to convince myself that truly my salvation hinged solely on Christ when I went to Him in faith of all that He is and all that He had done. The payoff was that it unlocked everything in the bible for me that was previously contradictory.That will be the most incredible Truth I will ever learn. I think maybe Father wants MOST of His children to know that basic Truth from the beginning of their walk with Him. But? It's awful hard to come by in my neck of the woods. My relationship with every single, church going, God loving family member here where I live has suffered because of the Truth I finally learned. That is because they never truly tried the spirit for fear of being drawn into false religion. Accepting Truth can be a... costly and difficult thing. But every bit doable in and by Christ, and the Holy Spirit.I think there is a grave danger in denying and turning our backs on any portion of truth. This is probably the ultimate example of doing so, and the best one I can think of: John 6:50-63.This example you've given is an instance when Jesus revealed something to the disciples that they had NEVER heard before. It also went against the grain of every single thing they had ever been taught. As you can see, this was difficult for them, as it is for us today. And this same circumstance does envelop many of us today. The disciples finally understood after much diligence and patience by Father and our Lord Jesus... but also the Holy Spirit which came later, further educated... Despite everything, it was... difficult for everyone.So, is there any discovery that one could make that would be too much to accept as truth, as painful obvious and clear that it truly is true?You know? I've observed that even the simplest, most obvious things CAN be most difficult to learn and accept... especially if you have first been taught in error. It takes an all out, relentless pursuit of the Truth while praying for Father to make things clear to you for anyone to have even a chance at overcoming the things of this world in understanding. Our enEmy is clever. If we seek to learn on our own without including Father, the enEmy will surely win out in how we come to "know" Father. We'll get so caught up in knowing "about" Him, that we'll never "know" Him. Huge difference there.Another question I wish to pose is this: how good are we at accepting hard truths from our current position in our walk with Christ?I would say that depends on the individual, as to whether or not they are accustomed to "knocking" on Father's door.Have a great day everyone. I've got to engage the world, lol... I'll see you later... Edited November 17, 2015 by Matthew T. typo's... always typo's. 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AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted November 17, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 17, 2015 Well said Matthew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted November 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.37 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2015 So what we are really seeing here, is truth versus flesh, right?No, its not *truth versus flesh*, but Truth vs Lies, or more precisely THE TRUTH (Christ) vs THE FATHER OF LIES (Satan). Ever since Satan entered the garden of Eden, it has been a battle between Truth vs Lies because the end result is Heaven vs Hell. Satan's master plan has always been to drag all of humanity to Hell (the Lake of Fire) therefore there have been lies upon lies since Eden, and they are all under the umbrella of Mystery Babylon who sits upon the scarlet coloured Beast. At the same time God desires that all men be saved and COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH (1 Tim 2:4). This tells us that salvation is the first step, and coming to the knowledge of the truth is a lifetime endeavour. What too many Christians have failed to understand is (1) there is a battle for the truth, (2) each and every believer has a responsibility to know what has been revealed as the Truth of God so that every lie (and liar) can be detected and discarded. Sadly, too many Christians have only a superficial understanding of what God has revealed, and too many have accepted the teachings of men without a serious personal study of the Word of God. Most churches have not really encouraged and trained believers to use all the legitimate tools of Bible study to carefully examine the Word of God and come unto the knowledge of the truth. Furthermore, too many Christians run away from the truth when it cuts close to the bone, rather than yield to it and be transformed. Then again, too many Christians have given in to False Christianity and all the lies that go with it. Too many have accepted the folly of theological liberalism, the cults, and heterodox teachings, without comparing them to the Scriptures. Therefore truth is presently on the run in general (within Christendom), while lies flourish and cults grow by leap and bounds. Often when a servant of God presents the truth to his church, he is kicked out rather than having the lies kicked out. Even the modern Bible versions which have now become predominant are presenting lies versus the Truth.The antidote for every believer is to (a) honestly acknowledge there is a battle and (b) battle valiantly for the truth, even if it means one against a thousand. That believer is never alone since the Father, the Word (the Son), and the Holy Spirit are always there, and always with the Truth. "Thy Word is Truth" (Jn 17:17). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted November 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 ......I realised by your replies what the fundamental issue here is. In order to know the truth, we need to have faith in order to accept it. After all, how can we have Christ unless we have first accepted Him and His message? Therefore, we all are able to grasp the Truth He gives us, right? And on our journey with Him, we see more and more truth because we encounter Him continually. But wherever we are on the journey, we should be ready to accept what He has to share with us, right? After all, it took faith to get as far as we have with Him, right? And we are still trusting Him, right?Right?No. As long as someone trusts the flesh instead of the Creator, not right -- just look at the many threads and posts indicating trust in man instead of trust in Yahweh's(God's) Word .... being separated unto God from what is false takes faith in God and God's Accomplishment. Even just being willing to seek the Truth is a Gift from God.... sheer grace. Most of Jesus' followers left Him , they walked away from Him, when His Words got too difficult... and He was right there with them teaching them and telling them His Father's Will and Word.... how much more difficult His Word is for people to accept TODAY ..... and people haven't changed... I don't understand what you are saying nor its context with relation to this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted November 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 So, lets look at this from a slightly different perspective, and think of people who are told very late in life that they were adopted. Some always suspected, some had no idea until they were very mature. I would say that that is a very real and personal hard truth. But I suppose there are more difficult discoveries that one could potentially have to come to terms with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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