Sin is not imputed when there is no law

[Openly Curious]

1 hour ago, Jewels7 said:

Not even Bible scholars argue that God used his own finger to write the Bible.  
God inspired the Bible! Men and councils convened to create the books of the Bible. God is perfect. If you believe in the inerrancy of the  Bible then you must believe in the first Bible that had 72 books. Not 66. 

 

That is not even correct.  The Bible always had 66 books.  But the original KJV bible included 14 of the apocrypha books in the middle, and were never considered fully scripture.  The original KJV bible had 80 books and 14 books were not part of the 66 books of the cannon.  You are reducing the cannon down to inspired messages that contain elements of truth but are not perfect.  You have even opposed the Bible itself as being truth.  

[Jewels7]

24 minutes ago, Openly Curious said:

That is not even correct.  The Bible always had 66 books.  But the original KJV bible included 14 of the apocrypha books in the middle, and were never considered fully scripture.  The original KJV bible had 80 books and 14 books were not part of the 66 books of the cannon.  You are reducing the cannon down to inspired messages that contain elements of truth but are not perfect.  You have even opposed the Bible itself as being truth.  

That is an openly false accusation. 

 

[Jewels7]

18 minutes ago, eileenhat said:

Re: Sin became 'named' by Moses law and Mankind began to turn back to God's hand more directly, in Their Lives

Romans 5:13

" Holman Christian Standard Bible
In fact, sin was in the world before the law, but sin is not charged to a person's account when there is no law. "

So before Moses got the "law", men had only their conscious awareness of evil to go on.

" Genesis 4:7-11 If you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, … "

So men were judged by how well they did, pre-Moses.

Some became (almost all pre-flood) corrupted by evilness.

Post Crucifixion - Sin

This again changed when Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and we were no longer under punishment by Moses's laws.

The Holy Spirit became our judge and jury (overseer) with its inherent gift of bridging our conscious awareness with Jesus Christ's intent for us.

" Spiritual Wisdom 1 Corinth. 2:14-16
…14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.…

Berean Study Bible 

Convicted by the Spirit

" In John 16, Jesus refers to the Spirit as a "Counselor" who will guide us in our everyday lives. One way he'll guide us is by convicting us of sin (16:8). And this is really a good thing: God wants us to get rid of the things that displease him, and the only way to identify those things is to be convicted by the Spirit. The Spirit works through our conscience to make us aware of sin in our lives. "

http://www.christianitytoday.com/iyf/advice/faithdoubt/what-does-holy-spirit-do.html

And yet there was a law in the beginning before Moses . In Genesis when God told Adam, thou shalt not. 

Thou shalt not consume the fruits of knowledge of good and evil. All metaphor. All idioms. Telling us that Adam was not to be beguilled by the illusions of the world wherein God's adversary already did dwell. 

Sin was in the world before God created the first of us from the dust of the world wherein sin dwelt. 

 

[Openly Curious]

6 minutes ago, Jewels7 said:

That is an openly false accusation. 

 

You openly disagreed with scripture that said our righteous are as filthy rags and defended your opposition by saying every word in the bible are not the actual words of God Himself.

You said men were just inspired to write insinuating some of their comments were personal thoughts.

[Jewels7]

And yet in the laws of God given unto Moses they all begin as they did in the Beginning. "Thou shalt not". Ten of them in the moral code. Over 600 in the full text pertaining to God's laws. Moses laws is a misnomer as we know. 

Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  

If one does not have knowledge of right from wrong how can they make a conscious choice to do wrong? When they could have, if free will exists, chosen to do right. And in that regard not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Right and wrong. 

Had they eaten of the fruit of that tree allowed them the tree of life, we'd be immortals here and in naked paradise to this very moment. Which means we would not be engaged in a debate concerning being saved from what happened in the genesis of humankind. That which lives by faith in order to see their world as a Christian. 

We see what we believe? 
Or do we believe what we see? 

Spiritual.

Worldly.
 

[FresnoJoe]

Bad Boy

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 (New International Version)

Bad Boy

Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are. Romans 3:19-20 (New Living Translation)

What You Gonna Do

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. Romans 3:21-31 (English Standard Version)

When KING Jesus Calls For You

Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. John 5:25-29 (Berean Study Bible)

~

For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The LORD

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[Jewels7]

3 hours ago, eileenhat said:

I do not see that sin existed before Adam's judgement by God.  ------

OK

[delade3]

On 11/21/2015 at 0:45 AM, Pamelasv said:

1 Romans 5:13

'for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.' 

Well, what do you think of this?  I am thinking of God judging all those nations who didn't have the law.  Not sure what he means by this. 

Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."  John 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."  So since the time from Adam to Moses, there was no repentance of sin or the knowledge of repentance.  After Moses, following the Law began and the Law prescribed what was and what was not acceptable to God.  And after Christ, came the grace and truth to add to The Law.. which means that grace and Truth was offered.  There were now forgiveness without formal sacrifices and there were explanations (truths) so that we could understand The Holy Bible. 
 

[Littlelambseativy]

Hiwever, there was sacrifice of the animal by God to provide an offering and a cover for Adam and Eve. And Cain and Able sacrificed but it was Cain's sacrifice which was not accepted ....therefore since Adam there was a sin offering.

[ravindran]

On 11/21/2015 at 5:45 AM, Pamelasv said:

1 Romans 5:13

'for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.' 

Well, what do you think of this?  I am thinking of God judging all those nations who didn't have the law.  Not sure what he means by this. 

Paul continues to say that nevertheless death has been there from the time of Adam. People die even though they did not have a direct command from God on what they should follow (like Adam). Before Mosaic Law, God did not give direct commandments to people. They still sinned and died. Verse 12 confirms the same.

We read below in verse 20 of chapter 1. Every one had something revealed to them about God, His power and divine nature. And it clearly says people are without excuse. People will be judged by what was exposed to them and if they had faith based on what was exposed to them. For some it might have been just through consciousness.

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.