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16 minutes ago, other one said:

When Revelation was written,  it was a stand alone book. That verse does not relate to the whole Bible, just Revelation.  I don't have the time nor inclination to get into the truthfulness of 1Enoch. We have many long threads concerning that subject.

Hi other one,

As I see it the book of Revelation is the culmination of the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the centre & purpose of the written word. All lanes, whether historical, prophetic or symbolic & types lead us to see Christ, His wonderful character & His awesome purposes for mankind.

`And beginning at Moses & all the prophets, He expounded to them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.` (Luke 24: 27)

At the beginning of the Bible, the book of Genesis traces everything to its primal source & moral commencement; at the end in the book of the Revelation, everything is seen directing to final consummation & moral conclusion.

In the four visions which present the complement & completion of the ministry of Christ as recorded in the four gospels, there are no fewer than 330 references to the figures, symbols, types, shadows, persons, & places of the Old Testament. These include the Throne, the Priest, the Prophet, & the King. All are required to unveil Jesus Christ who is the word of God.

regards, Marilyn.

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5 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

 The Sacred Scripture is perfect, complete. It's self-explanatory. Nothing should be added or taken away from it (Rev 22.18,19), neither modified. Only the Sacred Scripture has authority to explain the Sacred Scripture (2Cor 2.13).



 

Hi Leonardo Von,

Pleased to meet you & see that you have a great respect not only for God`s word but for the Lord Himself. I totally agree with you.

regards, Marilyn.

PS. Never talked to someone from Brazil before, quite interesting, & also to know that the Lord the Head of the Body is building & maturing us all over the world.

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Guest Robert
42 minutes ago, other one said:

When Revelation was written,  it was a stand alone book. That verse does not relate to the whole Bible, just Revelation.  I don't have the time nor inclination to get into the truthfulness of 1Enoch. We have many long threads concerning that subject.

Deuteronomy 4:2 also says not to add to or take away from what God says, and Proverbs 30:6 warns against it as well.

Edited by RobertS
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On 12/26/2015 at 5:34 AM, Last Daze said:
On 12/26/2015 at 3:50 AM, Ezra said:

To say that the Bible never refers to the seals as judgments indicates that someone is simply ignoring the events described within the seals, which are all fundamentally judgments (apart from some parenthetical views of Heaven). So the bottom line for the sake of simplicity is: SEALS = JUDGMENTS = TRIBULATION + WRATH

Since you're calling them "seal judgments" substantiate your claim.  For each seal list:

  • who is doing the judging?
  • who is being judged?
  • what is the judgment that was made?

Do it for each seal.  They are either "seal judgments" as a whole, each and every one of them, or they aren't.  Period.  To call them judgments without substantiating them as such indicates that someone is just making stuff up.

To add to that (hope you don't mind, LD), why do the souls under the altar call out to God to judge the inhabitants of the earth (6:10) if God were already pouring out his judgment? And why does God not reply and say something like, "What do you think I am doing now?" Instead, he tells them to "wait a little longer"; doesn't it suggest that God has yet to pour out his judgment at that point? 

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3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi other one,

As I see it the book of Revelation is the culmination of the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the centre & purpose of the written word. All lanes, whether historical, prophetic or symbolic & types lead us to see Christ, His wonderful character & His awesome purposes for mankind.

`And beginning at Moses & all the prophets, He expounded to them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.` (Luke 24: 27)

At the beginning of the Bible, the book of Genesis traces everything to its primal source & moral commencement; at the end in the book of the Revelation, everything is seen directing to final consummation & moral conclusion.

In the four visions which present the complement & completion of the ministry of Christ as recorded in the four gospels, there are no fewer than 330 references to the figures, symbols, types, shadows, persons, & places of the Old Testament. These include the Throne, the Priest, the Prophet, & the King. All are required to unveil Jesus Christ who is the word of God.

regards, Marilyn.

it was still penned by John at the direction of Jesus and was not combined with the others for some time.....   the scripture of not adding to or taking away still just pertains to the single book of Revelation.  

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3 hours ago, ghtan said:

To add to that (hope you don't mind, LD), why do the souls under the altar call out to God to judge the inhabitants of the earth (6:10) if God were already pouring out his judgment? And why does God not reply and say something like, "What do you think I am doing now?" Instead, he tells them to "wait a little longer"; doesn't it suggest that God has yet to pour out his judgment at that point? 

Good point.  Said at the 5th seal:

  • And they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”   Revelation 6:10

God's judgment is in the seven plagues of the seventh seal.  The first six seals speak of events that transpire, events that coincide with Matthew 24.  They aren't judgments.

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11 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:
On 12/24/2015 at 8:11 PM, other one said:

I think you need to read the book of Enoch to see what the days of Noah were like.....

I'm sorry, but I disagree. The Sacred Scripture is perfect, complete. It's self-explanatory. Nothing should be added or taken away from it (Rev 22.18,19), neither modified. Only the Sacred Scripture has authority to explain the Sacred Scripture (2Cor 2.13).

We would know practically nothing about the Roman, Greek, Persian, and Babylonian empires, let alone much of anything about the ancient Egyptians and Assyrians, etc., without the knowledge of other historical sources than the Bible. The Book of Enoch is a historical resource, having useful information, which the biblical authors Peter and Jude both used. We have the same opportunity as they to learn from it, regardless of our belief in its value as Scripture.

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On 8/30/2016 at 4:48 AM, RobertS said:

Deuteronomy 4:2 also says not to add to or take away from what God says, and Proverbs 30:6 warns against it as well.

Well remembered, RobertS. This brought me to mind another verse:

 

·         “And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and [ to ] Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think [ of men ] above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” (1Cor 4.6).

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On 8/30/2016 at 4:45 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Leonardo Von,

Pleased to meet you & see that you have a great respect not only for God`s word but for the Lord Himself. I totally agree with you.

regards, Marilyn.

PS. Never talked to someone from Brazil before, quite interesting, & also to know that the Lord the Head of the Body is building & maturing us all over the world.

Hi Marilyn,

Grace and peace of our lord Jesus Christ.

Pleased to meet you too. I am happy to be able to share the Sacred Scripture with you, even more knowing that you like eschatology. Me too.

I totally agree with you that Jesus Christ is the centre and purpose of all Sacred Scripture, mainly of the Revelation.

 

·         The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [ it ] by his angel unto his servant John” (Rev 1.1).

 

This expression (The Revelation of Jesus Christ) signify that: The Revelation belongs to Jesus (God gave it unto him), was given to John by Jesus and, mainly, is about Jesus Christ. Most people care to know who is the beast, the false prophet, the Great Babylon, mark of beast, they ignore the main theme of the Revelation: Jesus Himself.

Note that this is the only book of the Sacred Scripture that give a physical description of Jesus glorified. The main objective of the Revelation is reveal who is this Jesus to Whom we are serving, so that we do not have a wrong understanding of Him and we will lose heart in the faith.

In other words, as we know Jesus better we will see that He is in control of all things (the world isn’t adrift) and that, even in the moments of struggle, He is present, conducting everything so all that is good in his eyes is fulfilled in us (Rm 8.28).

Moreover, it is important emphasize that the sub-theme of the Revelation is worship. After all, except for the book of Psalms and Song of Solomon, Revelation is the book that has more expressions of worship (Rev 4.8-11; Rev 5.9-14; Rev 7.10-12; Rev 11.17; Rev 14.2,3; Rev 15.2,3; Rev 19.1-7), not to mention the first angel's message:

 

·         “Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.” (Rev 14.7).

 

Summarizing: the purpose of the Revelation is disclosing who is Jesus and what He desires of us.

I hope that this helps our brothers to focus on Jesus e His will when they read the Revelation.

Moreover, may Jesus bless you richly.

 

Leonardo Von.

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10 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

 

Hi Leonardo Von,

So true bro. I look forward to good eschatological discussions with you.

Blessings, Marilyn.

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