The promises of God

[thereselittleflower]

31 minutes ago, *Zion* said:

Are you serious?  Are you telepathic or something?  Where would you even get the notion that I hate Israel????  What a bold assumption!  Please read the original post again, the one at the very top, the one that starts off the whole thread.  This is just saddening....

I think you misunderstood.   Joline was wondering what happened to what you said given what someone else said about me instead of doing what you said.

 

 

[*Zion*]

Ok, be clear please.  What did I say below that was so abhorrent?  I still don't see it.

[JohnD]

Welcome to my world, Zion. I like to call it Crapistan.

You say something people don't like or don't want to believe (even if it's biblical) and whammo!  

If I read your OP correctly, you are beginning to see the underlying meaning of most of the Bible. The physical realm was created to purge sin from the spiritual realm AND the physical realm (together). We are a race of hybrids (spirit and body) and in eternity future we will have perfected bodies, but the emphasis is on the spirit(ual). And God has been trying to wean humanity off of the physical since the beginning. Obeying God / not obeying God with the one and only forbidden thing (eating the forbidden fruit) to the physical sacrifice Cain offered for worldly reasons and the spiritual sacrifice Abel offered obeying the spiritual significance... right down to the second coming of Messiah.

Romans 2:8-9 echoes Deuteronomy 10:16 and Jeremiah 4:4.

If God created humanity merely to glean for himself a people who choose to love him,, he did not have to create the physical realm and people to accomplish this. He already had at least 2/3 of the angels who did not fall because they chose to remain with him and not follow Lucifer in the rebellion.

The (so-called) Lord's prayer (under the Law of Moses btw) contained "on earth as it is in heaven."

Matthew 16:19 (AV)

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:18 (AV)

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

...which is the reverse "in heaven as it is on earth" prophetic of the Law of Messiah which began upon his death (Hebrews 9:15-17).

Ephesians 3:8–12 (AV)

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

When you draw the line of demarcation distinguishing between the spiritual and the physical you see it actually goes from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.

Where you are digging (so to speak) is on ground that Spirit Israel is based on biblically. And opponents to this will come out of the woodwork with extreme prejudice or pride.

An aside; Chuck Missler teaches that the Old Testament contains the New Testament concealed. The New Testament contains the Old Testament revealed.

You can't take the New Testament out of the Old or vice versa.

But to correctly distinguish the Promises of God to Physical Israel or Spirit Israel you must make the determination which he is making the promise to.

For example: No Christians (Spirit Israel) are entitled to land in the Holy Land (unless they are physical heirs to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).

The physical Abrahamic covenants were unconditional for his physical heirs. Eretz Israel is the birthrite of all Jews. 

The promise (spiritual heirs of Abraham**), on then other hand is conditional. Faith is what activates the prepaid salvation (1 John 2:2 / 1 Timothy 4:10 / John: 3:16-18).

**Romans 8:15 Romans 8:23 Genesis 22:17  

Hope this helps, and keep your head down because the opposers are already lining up.

[*Zion*]

If nothing else, JD, you put a smile on my face. Thanks

[Esther4:14]

On 1/14/2016 at 11:59 AM, Joline said:

What happened to the above? When speaking as you did below?

1. But since you hate Israel, I can understand why you would be blind to the truth of what Paul is saying about Israel in Rom. 11.

2. No one can, with a straight face, say that both metaphors speak to the same thing if they even have a cursory understanding of the passages.

3. To deny that as "opinion"  is simply laughable and the available textual data simply doesn't support that.  It's not even intellectually honest, whatsoever.

Hi Joline,

I am assuming that you meant to quote Shiloh because I was thinking the same thing when I read what he had to say in this thread.  What happened to what Zion said?  I will tell you what happened.  Shiloh here has some graduate, or some special little credential behind his understanding of the Hebrew language, which means that he doesn't have to love his neighbor as himself because he is smarter than all of his neighbors (Mark 12:31).  He will love them when they start thinking like he does.  

Apparently, he also thinks he doesn't have to love his neighbor because he will be blessed by how many times he has told someone they are antisemitic for considering the political nation state of Israel in any way that he doesn't see because it says that he will bless those that bless them, and he is blessing Israel with his rebuke; so, he doesn't have to loving like the rest of us.  

This is all essentially ridiculous because you cannot serve Christ without loving your neighbor.  

" It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,^[c] 27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,^[d] 28 even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many” (Matthew 20:26-28).  

 

And my answer for the opening post is that there are differences between the promises given in the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.  However, even promises that were fulfilled before Christ teach us who He is and what He will do when we turn to Him in obedience.  So, even when there are differences, like Israel was able to experience complete prosperity and protection when they were obedient to the Old Covenant, and believers are told to expect trials and tribulations (John 16:33); we know God is GOOD because He is the same God today, tomorrow, and forever (Hebrews 13:8).  He does not change like shifting shadows (James 1:17).  

In reality, the Old Covenant doesn't apply to Israel anymore either.  The New Covenant is the way that God has provided to restore them to Himself.   

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke,though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

This covenant He made with the house of Israel when He died on the cross so that by going ahead, He could send the helper who could put the law on the hearts of James, Peter, Paul, and the rest of the disciples who were all from Israel who followed Jesus in order that He could fulfill His word that He gave to restore a New Covenant with them to replace the one they broke (John 16:7).  

Today, only the New Covenant is valid for Jew or Gentile.  It is His New Covenant with them.  To say otherwise is like trying to go up and take on the people they were afraid were too big for them to overcome, and losing badly (Numbers 14:39-45).  Israel can't go back and succeed.  They can only go forward and accept Christ, and they will never be able to do this when they have a bunch of people blasting nonsense pertaining to genealogy rather than repentance of sin to them.  

Today, unfortunately, we don't have many people like Paul teaching today, who was a Jew; however, he never spoke like many of the modern Zionists do.  It is such a shame.  

 

[*Zion*]

4 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

Hi Joline,

I am assuming that you meant to quote Shiloh because I was thinking the same thing when I read what he had to say in this thread.  What happened to what Zion said?  I will tell you what happened.  Shiloh here has some graduate, or some special little credential behind his understanding of the Hebrew language, which means that he doesn't have to love his neighbor as himself because he is smarter than all of his neighbors (Mark 12:31).  He will love them when they start thinking like he does.  

Apparently, he also thinks he doesn't have to love his neighbor because he will be blessed by how many times he has told someone they are antisemitic for considering the political nation state of Israel in any way that he doesn't see because it says that he will bless those that bless them, and he is blessing Israel with his rebuke; so, he doesn't have to loving like the rest of us.  

This is all essentially ridiculous because you cannot serve Christ without loving your neighbor.  

" It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,^[c] 27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,^[d] 28 even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many” (Matthew 20:26-28).  

 

And my answer for the opening post is that there are differences between the promises given in the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.  However, even promises that were fulfilled before Christ teach us who He is and what He will do when we turn to Him in obedience.  So, even when there are differences, like Israel was able to experience complete prosperity and protection when they were obedient to the Old Covenant, and believers are told to expect trials and tribulations (John 16:33); we know God is GOOD because He is the same God today, tomorrow, and forever (Hebrews 13:8).  He does not change like shifting shadows (James 1:17).  

In reality, the Old Covenant doesn't apply to Israel anymore either.  The New Covenant is the way that God has provided to restore them to Himself.   

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke,though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

This covenant He made with the house of Israel when He died on the cross so that by going ahead, He could send the helper who could put the law on the hearts of James, Peter, Paul, and the rest of the disciples who were all from Israel who followed Jesus in order that He could fulfill His word that He gave to restore a New Covenant with them to replace the one they broke (John 16:7).  

Today, only the New Covenant is valid for Jew or Gentile.  It is His New Covenant with them.  To say otherwise is like trying to go up and take on the people they were afraid were too big for them to overcome, and losing badly (Numbers 14:39-45).  Israel can't go back and succeed.  They can only go forward and accept Christ, and they will never be able to do this when they have a bunch of people blasting nonsense pertaining to genealogy rather than repentance of sin to them.  

Today, unfortunately, we don't have many people like Paul teaching today, who was a Jew; however, he never spoke like many of the modern Zionists do.  It is such a shame.  

 

Agreed, agreed, agreed!  Love it!!!

Let's walk in love, people.  Thanks for the clarifying, Esther.  God bless you xx

[Guest]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 2:11 AM, thereselittleflower said:

I think you misunderstood.   Joline was wondering what happened to what you said given what someone else said about me instead of doing what you said.

 

 

Yes, that is what it was about.

[Guest]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2015 at 6:34 AM, *Zion* said:

I believe the Old Testament is just as valid as the New Testament.  There are some who believe that the OT promises are only for the nation of Israel, and that Gentile Christians have no business believe that they may share in those blessings.  I do not believe this to be true.  When I read any portion of God's Word I receive it in my spirit.  Am I not supposed to if it's talking about Israel?  I know that Israel is God's nation, and that they are God's people.  I am very happy that God desires to bless them, but I am also adopted into God's family by being born again by His Spirit.  So what's the deal?  If I am wrong I pray the Lord reveal it to me, and if He should choose to use someone here to show me, then Amen.  Just remember, truth in love.  If you can't manage that then just try your best

Blessings to all

My answer to the the old vs new.

First scripture teaches us there were two covenants made with Abraham. Paul tells us the women are an allegory for the two covenants. The covenants themselves are not allegory, but are real.

All of the issues between Jew and Gentile come down to these two covenants. They are covenants of promise. And as Paul instructs you cannot add or take away from  a covenant once it has been established. These two covenants therefore each are distinct each having their own fulfilment.

Take note what this covenant says to Abraham concerning himself. And what God says concerning Abrahams seed.

Genesis 15:13  And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14  And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15  And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16  But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17   And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
first covenant promises to Abraham we find in Genesis 15.

1. Abraham is going to die

2. It concerns the fourth Generation

This covenant does not speak about Isaac, and Jacob, nor the Generation which went into Egypt. That generation were a dead when the evil treatment of Israel began.

Acts speaks of this covenant concerning Abraham........

Ac 7:5  And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

It also gave no inheritance to Isaac, Jacob, nor the generation which went into Egypt.

The second covenant Genesis 17, made in the blood of circumcision, is the covenant which promises to Abraham, to be made a Father of Many nations. This concerns ROYALTY.

In short, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph all believed in the resurrection to receive the promises of this covenant. For they all were going to die in the first covenant.

Hence we see Abraham having his faith tested by offering up Isaac. As Hebrews tells us, He expected God to raise him from the dead. Which wa he did receive him in a figure

Heb 11:19  Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure

 

Joseph as well.

Ge 50:25  And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Ex 13:19  And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.
 

The book of Hebrews explains these all died in faith never having received the promise. They were pilgrims on this earth. They seek a heavenly country. One given in resurrection from the dead.

The Children of Israel are called Gods firstborn. This speaks of having a double portion as heirs of their father.

In Keeping the circumcision they held the promises of both covenants.

One in this world in this life Gen 15

One the next world and the next life. Gen 17

An only born son speaks of an heir which inherits what belongs to his father, as sole heir.

These things are significant to understanding The connection between old and new testament.

The second covenant made to Abraham is fulfilled completely in Christ. We all Jew and Gentile are EQUAL HEIRS of promise in that covenant. We are all children of promise in Christ.

Israel as a nation as firstborn have distinctly the earthly worldly inheritance of this world and this life. They are back in the land today because of God's faithfulness to Abraham. In which all in Christ are made his seed of promise to the heavenly inheritance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Qnts2]

On 1/18/2016 at 4:36 AM, Esther4:14 said:

Hi Joline,

I am assuming that you meant to quote Shiloh because I was thinking the same thing when I read what he had to say in this thread.  What happened to what Zion said?  I will tell you what happened.  Shiloh here has some graduate, or some special little credential behind his understanding of the Hebrew language, which means that he doesn't have to love his neighbor as himself because he is smarter than all of his neighbors (Mark 12:31).  He will love them when they start thinking like he does.  

Apparently, he also thinks he doesn't have to love his neighbor because he will be blessed by how many times he has told someone they are antisemitic for considering the political nation state of Israel in any way that he doesn't see because it says that he will bless those that bless them, and he is blessing Israel with his rebuke; so, he doesn't have to loving like the rest of us.  

This is all essentially ridiculous because you cannot serve Christ without loving your neighbor.  

" It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,^[c] 27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,^[d] 28 even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many” (Matthew 20:26-28).  

 

And my answer for the opening post is that there are differences between the promises given in the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.  However, even promises that were fulfilled before Christ teach us who He is and what He will do when we turn to Him in obedience.  So, even when there are differences, like Israel was able to experience complete prosperity and protection when they were obedient to the Old Covenant, and believers are told to expect trials and tribulations (John 16:33); we know God is GOOD because He is the same God today, tomorrow, and forever (Hebrews 13:8).  He does not change like shifting shadows (James 1:17).  

In reality, the Old Covenant doesn't apply to Israel anymore either.  The New Covenant is the way that God has provided to restore them to Himself.   

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke,though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

This covenant He made with the house of Israel when He died on the cross so that by going ahead, He could send the helper who could put the law on the hearts of James, Peter, Paul, and the rest of the disciples who were all from Israel who followed Jesus in order that He could fulfill His word that He gave to restore a New Covenant with them to replace the one they broke (John 16:7).  

Today, only the New Covenant is valid for Jew or Gentile.  It is His New Covenant with them.  To say otherwise is like trying to go up and take on the people they were afraid were too big for them to overcome, and losing badly (Numbers 14:39-45).  Israel can't go back and succeed.  They can only go forward and accept Christ, and they will never be able to do this when they have a bunch of people blasting nonsense pertaining to genealogy rather than repentance of sin to them.  

Today, unfortunately, we don't have many people like Paul teaching today, who was a Jew; however, he never spoke like many of the modern Zionists do.  It is such a shame.  

 

Since the Zionist have nothing to do with the discussion, bringing up Zionists in a negative way is simply being anti-Israel.

Paul did not need to be a 'modern Zionist', as at that time, the Jewish people had not yet been forced out of Jerusalem. Paul, for his day, spoke like a Zionist, when he said that the promises to the Jewish people would be fulfilled because God has not abandoned the Jewish people.  

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Since the Zionist have nothing to do with the discussion, bringing up Zionists in a negative way is simply being anti-Israel.

Paul did not need to be a 'modern Zionist', as at that time, the Jewish people had not yet been forced out of Jerusalem. Paul, for his day, spoke like a Zionist, when he said that the promises to the Jewish people would be fulfilled because God has not abandoned the Jewish people.  

nt

Edited January 30, 2016 by Joline