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NO ONE KNOWS the Day or Hour, except the FATHER ?


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After verse 30 the theme is different, so verses 48-50 have no bearing on this discussion. Verse 13 does.

UNANNOUNCED AND UNEXPECTED COMING OF THE BRIDEGROOM

13“Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour. [Your translation is incomplete. Here is the correct verse]

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. [KJV]

But no connection to any Tribulation. QED.

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11 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

don't agree but, hey, this disagreement has been going on for about 125 years now so it probably wont be resolved today either.

I think we can agree on that, though I might challenge the exact point where this disagreement began. It seems like it's main seed was in the Darby theories, then went into the Scofield Reference Bible, from there it escalated again, through the semenaries, but eschatology was not a huge topic. Then the rebirth of the nation of Israel, added a new emphasis. Suddenly, the actual building of another temple seemed possible. Fast forward to institutions like Calvary Chapel and their rapid growth as a denomination (in spite of their claim to be non-denominational) and their huge following on Christian radio, the introduction of the Hal Lindsey books, and a few films like "A Thief in the Night" and "A Distant Thunder", raised the topic to more prominence. Later, we got the Left Behind series, and so, the pre-trib rapture theory has had a large marketing push, so to speak. That is where the money seems to be, LOL. 

However, I think that the rise of pre-tribism, has been a good thing, I really do. I am not fond of it's teaching, as I consider it to be error, but I love the fact that it has gotten people to read their Bibles, and look into these things.

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4 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I think we can agree on that, though I might challenge the exact point where this disagreement began. It seems like it's main seed was in the Darby theories, then went into the Scofield Reference Bible, from there it escalated again, through the semenaries, but eschatology was not a huge topic. Then the rebirth of the nation of Israel, added a new emphasis. Suddenly, the actual building of another temple seemed possible. Fast forward to institutions like Calvary Chapel and their rapid growth as a denomination (in spite of their claim to be non-denominational) and their huge following on Christian radio, the introduction of the Hal Lindsey books, and a few films like "A Thief in the Night" and "A Distant Thunder", raised the topic to more prominence. Later, we got the Left Behind series, and so, the pre-trib rapture theory has had a large marketing push, so to speak. That is where the money seems to be, LOL. 

However, I think that the rise of pre-tribism, has been a good thing, I really do. I am not fond of it's teaching, as I consider it to be error, but I love the fact that it has gotten people to read their Bibles, and look into these things.

Very wise observation, O Man.  It IS a good thing. 

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10 minutes ago, Ezra said:

After verse 30 the theme is different, so verses 48-50 have no bearing on this discussion. Verse 13 does.

UNANNOUNCED AND UNEXPECTED COMING OF THE BRIDEGROOM

13“Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour. [Your translation is incomplete. Here is the correct verse]

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. [KJV]

But no connection to any Tribulation. QED.

Fine, add wherein the Son of Man cometh. i would have though that was already implied, understood anyway! It still changes nothing, the context is still the second coming, not a pre-trib rapture. This all just reinforces what Jesus already said. And as Paul pointed out:

1 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 

I suggest that our being alert, our watching, is partially our watching for the things Jesus told us to watch for, such as the Abomination of Desolation. However, the bigger focus is on living right, not just knowing the signs. However, why give signs for a people who will not be around to see them. You, watch for the abomination, (that you won't see because you will be raptured), or you Jews (if that is who you believe Matt 24 to be speaking to) you also watch for this, even though you have no reason to, since you never got this message.  Does that make any sort of sense? If so, I am missing in, which is not impossible.

Paul also said to the Thessalonians:

 1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

There, the context is undeniably to Christians and also about the rapture (our gathering to Him). If I had to make an educated guess, it looks likely, that Paul is also referencing the abomination, what could be more abominable that that THE man of lawlessness, THE son of destruction, displaying himself as God in the temple of God.

It all fits well for us, as long as we do not try to force assumption upon scripture, total harmony, and round and round it goes until we understand and submit to scripture.

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8 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

The Rapture, of course.

But I thought the rapture had no signs....

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Omegaman

If one thinks that the 2nd Coming is being referred to by the "no one knows that day or hour", you have a problem.  Matt 24:29, 30 . It kind of dismisses the "no one knows that day or hour"  Look at v.29 - "Immediately after the distress of those days..... "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn".  These verses pinpoint the time of the 2nd Coming.  "Immediately after the distress of those days".

Then who or what is being referred to by : No one knows that day or hour, not the angels in heaven, not the Son, but only God the Father.  For this cannot refer to the 2nd Coming, because of:  Immediately after the distress of those days.

And then how much of Matt 24, is truly "Matt 24". One must remember that the original text did not have chapter breaks or even have verses.  So truly the Olivet Discourse could easily end at verse at 31.  Verse 32 and on is a different subject altogether.  "No one knows that day or hour except God the Father". (Rapture) vs "Immediately after the distress of those days" (for the 2nd Coming)."

In Christ

Montana Marv

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I think  and this is just for comment and communication purpose, that if there is to be after the distress , or after the tribulation of those days, we see that God comes in the clouds,  and gather His elect , this is the first rapture and second coming at the same time, and then when He comes after , then will He come with His angels and wipe out all that needs to be , and destroys once and for all,

the reveal of the apostacy and the lawless one, places us in the time of the tribulation, no matter what, and this is by , that the pre trib said, that when the peace treaty or new covenant is made then it will be three and a half and then the lawless one will take over the temple and call Him self God, now we are already , in three and a half years ,? so how can anyone get taken out before ?

there is no secret rapture,. this is told by scripture if they say He here or there or in the desert .etc, don't go , for as the lightning strikes across the sky , so will all see God , coming in the clouds,

so what part of scripture is not understood,? I am still baffled to see people holding on to a secret or any time rapture that is not scheduled according to scripture, but what is said, SO for those that say they read scripture , and others don't know what scripture is, this is a big flashing light here, DANGER .. DANGER.. how does anyone justify the scriptures that are used for one event to make up  one that is not clear, or biblical for that fact ?

we will see the lawless one, we will see the system of the beast and will have to suffer through this, .now if God saves us from this during , or through it, or takes us out prior to , that is what God will do , but we cannot make plans on our own , when God is in control !

besides, its possible that all that we have been taught is not truth , but  false teaching also , so what are we to do ?,,

we follow the teachings of Jesus, we love one another, and keep the faith , we need to believe that in the end or at Gods appointed time He will save us, and if we go through the tribulation, just if we do , and that's possible, then we need to endure until the end , doing the will of Jesus and following as we are appointed to do and give our selves as a sacrifice to Him, this is the cost !

we are not going to get a free ride, and if ever there was a chance which is not stated in the bible of a pre trib, I would be in the front of that line, ? LoL for no one wants to suffer , but we are subjected not to wrath of God but of the wrath of the devil that lawless one,

we are to believe and endure until the end this is our calling if we are saved, Gods appointed times tells us when the season is here,

and so we need to be doing , and watching , loving and preaching, for God did not leave noah and the family behind , and they knew when it was going to be time to leave, amen ... blessing everyone

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