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Religion: “I obey-therefore I’m accepted.” Gospel: “I’m accepted-therefore I obey.”


angels4u

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7 minutes ago, ((Michael)) said:

I said I conceded that there are passages that speak of reverence, but John 4:18 though quoted often isn't one I see as that. There is no fear in love, but that doesn't address the Fear of God. That is speaking of no fear in life, or ones walk in this life because they of the relationship they have with God. That doesn't address the passages above or the countless others. I don't see why people can't see that there is both in the scriptures. If Moses, David, Isaiah and all the high angels fear the one true God, why would I think I am going to be any different?

 

Michael , I don't fear God,He's my father and loves me ,why should I fear Him? He loved me so much that He adopted me in to His family,the family of God :emot-heartbeat:

Do I fear what the enemy can do to me ,no,because my heavenly Father takes care of me no matter what will happen, so death where is your sting,death where is your victory? 

6Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So do not be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. 8I tell you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God.…

Michael,when I accepted Jess as my Savior I entered into His rest :emot-heartbeat: and presence~~

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ ,as it is therefore that Christ lives in us~~

Why do I need to fear?

Who do I need to fear?

And why?

 

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You still haven't addressed any of the passages I quoted. I already told you I agreed with the passage you quoted on there is no fear in love, though I believe it's not relevant to fear of God. And nobody said anything about fearing the enemy.  What do you make of the passages quoted above. I'll leave you with another:

Romans 11:20-22English Standard Version (ESV)

20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but youstand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

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1 hour ago, ((Michael)) said:

I think it's both. I see both reverence and actual fear in a lot of the passages. I concede that there are several passages that speak of reverence, but how do you interpret the following passages:

Matthew 10:28 (NASB)28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Philippians 2:1(NASB)12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Isaiah 8:12-13New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12 “You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’
In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy,
And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it.
13 “It is the Lord of hosts whom you should regard as holy.
And He shall be your fear,
And He shall be your dread.

 

Jeremiah 2:19New American Standard Bible (NASB)

19 “Your own wickedness will correct you,
And your apostasies will reprove you;
Know therefore and see that it is evil and bitter
For you to forsake the Lord your God,
And the dread of Me is not in you,” declares the Lord God of hosts.

 

Deuteronomy 21:21 (NASB)21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear of it and fear.

 

Ephesians 6:5-6 (NASB)Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.

 

There are several more passages I could post. Why is fearing the Almighty something bad? I concede that we are to reverence, but there is also needed a healthy understanding of fear. In the passages posted previously on the account when the people of Israel's encounter with the Almighty at Mt. Sinai, they were obviously frightened something fierce and God Himself said they spoke well in admitting it, according to how my bible reads in Deuteronomy chapter 5. This world we live in is missing fear of God. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very good point Michael.  :thumbsup:

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How do you get to the blog forum angels?

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Blessings Michael,,,,,

     Let's try looking at this Verse of Scripture,,,,,,,,closely,,,,,

Quote

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”                                                   2 Tim 1:7

God has not given us "the spirit of fear",,,,,,,,so this tells us that "fear" is a spirit,correct" Now,as Born Again Believers,Jesus abides in us,correct? Okay & we are indwelled with another "Spirit",,,,,,the Holy Spirit        the fruits of that Spirit are the Fruits given us by God,our Heavenly Father,,,,,,it is His Holy Spirit that we are indwelled by,,,,,,,what is there to "fear",,,,,,,"fear" has no place in a child of God,not even "fear"towards God because....

Quote

King James Bible
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.                                John 14"20

                                                                                             With love-in Christ<kwik

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Hello Michael.

After watching the video I know that you and I believe the same about the fear of the Lord.

We all need to have a healthy fear of the Lord and the fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom.

This is what happens when we do fear and trust the Lord ( not the fear which makes us afraid)

When we trust and obey~~~

 

Isaiah 43:2-3

When we trust and obey~~~God promised to be  with  us ~~

When you pass through the waters,
    I will be with you;
and when you pass through the rivers,
    they will not sweep over you.
When you walk through the fire,
    you will not be burned;
    the flames will not set you ablaze.
For I am the Lord your God,
    the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I give Egypt for your ransom,
    Cush[a] and Seba in your stead.

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On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 6:35 PM, angels4u said:
  1. Religion:

  2. “I obey-therefore I’m accepted.”
  3. Motivation is based on fear and insecurity.
  4. I obey God in order to get things from God
  5. When circumstances in my life go wrong, I am angry at God or my self, since I believe, like Job’s friends that anyone who is good deserves a comfortable life.
  6. When I am criticized I am furious or devastated because it is critical that I think of myself as a ‘good person’. Threats to that self-image must be destroyed at all costs.
  7. My prayer life consists largely of petition and it only heats up when I am in a time of need. My main purpose in prayer is control of the environment.
  8. My self-view swings between two poles. If and when I am living up to my standards, I feel confident, but then I am prone to be proud and unsympathetic to failing people. If and when I am not living up to standards, I feel humble, but not confident-I feel like a failure.
  9. My identity and self-worth are based mainly on how hard I work. Or how moral I am, and so I must look down on those I perceive as lazy or immoral. I disdain and feel superior to ‘the other.’
  10. Since I look to my own pedigree or performance for my spiritual acceptability, my heart manufactures idols. It may be my talents, my moral record, my personal discipline, my social status, etc. I absolutely have to have them so they serve as my main hope, meaning, happiness, security, and significance, whatever I may say I believe about God.
  11. Gospel:

  12. “I’m accepted-therefore I obey.”
  13. Motivation is based on grateful joy.
  14. I obey God to get to God-to delight and resemble Him.
  15. When circumstances in my life go wrong, I struggle but I know all my punishment fell on Jesus and that while he may allow this for my training, he will exercise his Fatherly love within my trial.
  16. When I am criticized I struggle, but it is not critical for me to think of myself as a ‘good person.’ My identity is not built on my record or my performance but on God’s love for me in Christ. I can take criticism. That’s how I became a Christian.
  17. My prayer life consists of generous stretches of praise and adoration. My main purpose is fellowship with Him.
  18. My self-view is not based on a view of my self as a moral achiever. In Christ I am simul iustus et peccator—simultaneously sinful and lost yet accepted in Christ. I am so bad he had to die for me and I am so loved he was glad to die for me. This leads me to deeper and deeper humility and confidence at the same time. Neither swaggering nor sniveling.
  19. My identity and self-worth are centered on the one who died for His enemies, who was excluded from the city for me. I am saved by sheer grace. So I can’t look down on those who believe or practice something different from me. Only by grace I am what I am. I’ve no inner need to win arguments.
  20. I have many good things in my life—family, work, spiritual disciplines, etc. But none of these good things are ultimate things to me. None of them are things I absolutely have to have, so there is a limit to how much anxiety, bitterness, and despondency they can inflict on me when they are threatened and lost.
  21. Adapted from Tim Keller

  22. So many of us have some form of religion,but what is religion and what is the difference between religion and relationship,Tim Keller wrote some very good points about the difference between religion and the gospel ,do we recognize the difference and why or why not we think or do certain things? Are we doing it for the right reason?

Religion can be because of a relationship. It all depends on what the term means to an individual. To me I am starting to see religion more as worship...........

 

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5 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Michael,,,,,

     Let's try looking at this Verse of Scripture,,,,,,,,closely,,,,,

God has not given us "the spirit of fear",,,,,,,,so this tells us that "fear" is a spirit,correct" Now,as Born Again Believers,Jesus abides in us,correct? Okay & we are indwelled with another "Spirit",,,,,,the Holy Spirit        the fruits of that Spirit are the Fruits given us by God,our Heavenly Father,,,,,,it is His Holy Spirit that we are indwelled by,,,,,,,what is there to "fear",,,,,,,"fear" has no place in a child of God,not even "fear"towards God because....

                                                                                             With love-in Christ<kwik

I won't respond after this one on this topic in this thread after this response. I feel passionately on this topic because of things that have happened in my life in more than a couple of experiences. If you look throughout scripture, every encounter you see between man and the Almighty or Yeshua in His glorified state, men drop to their faces. I'm not trying to make God out into the boogy man. I just believe He is too awesome for us to truly comprehend in this lifetime.  The passage you just quoted, is the same as the passage in John where it is said that " There is no fear in love, perfect love casts out fear......Those passages are talking about we have nothing to fear in life. Scripture does not contradict itself! There are too many passages that tell us it is wise to fear the one True God. I've listed probably at least 10 on this forum alone. If Jesus and Paul both tell us it is wise to fear God, why do we go out of our way to justify not fearing Him based on a couple of passages that are not talking about fearing God, but about not fearing life?

Edited by ((Michael))
wanted to explain why I won't comment on this topic on this thread
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On 5/15/2016 at 11:04 AM, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Angels,,,,,,,

      Very nice OP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,interesting Topic ,I do understand what you/we mean by "religion" but really,isn't "religion" one's beliefs or a groups belief's?Does it have to be an organizations set of "traditional" customs & rituals,,,,,,,,,I don't know,personally I prefer to separate us from the pack by saying "Relationship"vs religion?

    I know we are both saying the same thing basically but there are even people that believe(or claim to) what the Gospel "says" but yet they are in dire need of having an intimate Relationship with our Lord,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,What do you think?                              Love,Kwik

I love that Kwik.  That is how I explain to people the difference between our faith and "A" religion.  We have a relationship with our Heavenly Father through Jesus Christ. It is God reaching down to us in total unconditional love.  Religion is mans futile attempt to reach God through good works or trying to it on our own merit.  It is only through Jesus we can walk with our Heavenly Father and have His Peace. 

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On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 7:06 PM, angels4u said:

Michael , I don't fear God,He's my father and loves me ,why should I fear Him? He loved me so much that He adopted me in to His family,the family of God :emot-heartbeat:

Do I fear what the enemy can do to me ,no,because my heavenly Father takes care of me no matter what will happen, so death where is your sting,death where is your victory? 

6Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So do not be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. 8I tell you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God.…

Michael,when I accepted Jess as my Savior I entered into His rest :emot-heartbeat: and presence~~

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ ,as it is therefore that Christ lives in us~~

Why do I need to fear?

Who do I need to fear?

And why?

 

I would think you would fear like you do a parent. Fear in the sense of respect and honor.

Ex 20:12  Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
1) to estimate, fix the value
1a) for the value of something belonging to one’s self
2) to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerate

 

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