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Biblical Calculations 1. (70 X 7)


Marilyn C

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2 hours ago, Daniel23 said:

Kan,

Each chapter of the Daniel represents a different prophecy these were sometimes decades apart from each other. So it doesn't shift the timeline of Daniel 8, because Daniel 8 is dealing with end times... Daniel 9 is prophesying the Savior. These are not mutually exclusive. 

As for there being different Cyrus' I haven't found another Cyrus who was a Babylonian King that issued a decree. I actually didn't find another Babylonian King named Cyrus anywhere. If you have some examples of this I would be interested to read on this and the "different" Nebuchadnezzars that existed. This is the first I have heard of this. 

I appreciate the softening of your tone from previous posts and while I would like to continue the conversation in this tone, I have to say that the problem that I think we're going to struggle with is that you are more interpreting the bible to fit a narrative that you have already accepted as truth. This will be a nonstarter because though I already brought up points why the Artaxerxes decree did not exist or at best was decree inferred from various verses, you haven't seemed to address that. If Artaxerxes could have logically been THE DECREE, I would have never questioned it beyond that. But because it couldn't past muster, I started digging and thus I came on the path I am today. I used nothing other than the word of God (with the help of what I believe was the Holy Spirit) to come up with any of this. I used outside sources for historical data only after the interpretation was done and only to see if it was close enough to be considered a fit.

If there is something I am missing, please share it with me... I am after the truth and if my interpretation can be proven wrong... Then I can accept it. God's word is the only authority and I don't want to interpret it in a way that only serves my needs or desires. Because at the end of the day, if I am delusional... I have to answer to God as to why I perverted His word. 

Thank you for attempting another angle at approaching this discussion... It will be much more productive if we can treat each other as family in Christ... Because He is what is really important!

 

In the Spirit of His Love,

 

Daniel

 

 

The decree to rebuild "coming into effect." Or "going forth" as written in Daniel. 

Cyrus 536 BC, Ezra 1:1-4 the decree.

Darius 519 BC, Ezra 6:1-12 the work was hindered

Artaxerxes 457 BC, Ezra 7 the empowerment for that decree to be enacted.

 

As for the naming of Kings I did not write anything about a Babylonian Cyrus. Cyrus was of Persian Kingship and a quick history check shows there to be more than one Cyrus just like there is more than one Nebuchadnezzar.

The people of the land often continued to refer to the King by their predecessors/ father's name, regardless of the chosen descendants name.

 

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Hi Daniel23,

I appreciate you writing out your thoughts as it helps me see your thought process.

First we read of God prophesying about the rebuilding of Jerusalem & the Temple, long before the Persian kings took power.

 

The Lord prophesied that king Cyrus would say –

`to Jerusalem, “You shall be built,” & to the temple, “ Your foundations shall be laid.”` (Isa. 44: 28)

This prophetic word concerning the foundations of the temple came about in king Cyrus` time. Then the prophetic word concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem comes about in king Artaxerxes time.

 

The fulfilment of the prophecies.

The Temple - King Cyrus

`Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah.` (Ezra 1: 2)

Jerusalem rebuilt – King Artaxerxes.

`If it pleases the king, & if your servant has found favour in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the CITY of my fathers` tombs, that I may REBUILD it.......(&) let letters be given to me ...`(Neh. 2: 5 – 8)

 

Just because someone prophecies something does not mean that that person fulfils it. God tells us in His word who fulfils the prophecy –

 

King Cyrus – the Temple.

King Artaxerxes – the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

 

Some exiles lived in Jerusalem, however the whole city was NOT rebuilt. And the `decree` you are referring to is in relation to the house of the Lord – the Temple.

 

`Then King Darius issued a decree, & a search was made in the archives......a scroll was found, & in it a record was written thus: “In the first year of King Cyrus, King Cyrus issued a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem: “Let the house be rebuilt,...” ` (Ezra 6: 1 – 3)

 

Quite clear there Daniel, the king Cyrus decreed to build the house of the Lord, BUT NO decree concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem which God`s word clearly tells us came about in king Artaxerxes reign.

 

Marilyn.  

 

 

 

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On May 2, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Kan said:

The decree to rebuild "coming into effect." Or "going forth" as written in Daniel. 

Cyrus 536 BC, Ezra 1:1-4 the decree.

Darius 519 BC, Ezra 6:1-12 the work was hindered

Artaxerxes 457 BC, Ezra 7 the empowerment for that decree to be enacted.

 

As for the naming of Kings I did not write anything about a Babylonian Cyrus. Cyrus was of Persian Kingship and quick history check shows there to be more than one Cyrus just like there is more than one Nebuchadnezzar.

The people of the land often continued to refer to the King by their predecessors/ father's name, regardless of the chosen descendants name.

I guess I am having a hard time understanding what the significance is of there being multiple Cyrus' and Nebuchadnezzars, since you identify that proper timeline of the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Are you saying that Isaiah was talking about another King Cyrus who would issue a command to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple?? Do you know who this Cyrus is so I can look it up? 

And where are you getting that the work was hindered by Darius? As a matter of fact it explicitly says that the work was not stopped by Darius in Ezra 5:5 (see my earlier reply) I am at a loss as this keeps getting more confusing and the facts just don't line up. The work was hindered under Artaxerxes, as I posted earlier in Ezra 4:13 "“As soon as the copy of the letter of King Artaxerxes was read to Rehum and Shimshai the secretary and their associates, they went immediately to the Jews in Jerusalem and compelled them by force to stop.” and in Ezra 4:14 it says "“Thus the work on the house of God in Jerusalem came to a standstill until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.”.

That all having been said, the fact is that decree of Cyrus was to rebuild AND restore Jerusalem. Obviously the exile had ended (the city was restored with its people) and the construction on the temple began. Sacrifices were being offered. So I really am confused why this is so hard for you to see. Let's break down each "decree" of Artaxerxes one last time and you can tell me where there is an EXPLICIT decree other than just inferring one from information that doesn't support it:

Ezra 4:21- The decree to stop work on the temple.

Ezra 7:13-20- the decree to "allow" any of the Israelites who volunteered to go back. Ezra 7:14 says that they were sent by the King to "inquire about Judah and Jerusalem with regard to your God" and they were to take with them silver and gold from the temple. There is nothing even hinting at rebuilding anything.

Ezra 7:21 - the decree to provide (with diligence) what ever supplies were needed for the temple of God. It says, “Whatever the God of heaven has prescribed, let it be done with diligence for the temple of the God of heaven. Why should his wrath fall on the realm of the king and of his sons?” Again there is nothing in this decree that mentions anything about rebuilding.


‭‭Nehemiah 2:5-9 - This is the closest to a decree that there is in the bible, but it is still not a decree to "restore and rebuild Jerusalem". There are three aspects of this that we can verify without offering guesses that are not biblical:

    1. Nehemiah asks the King to send him to Jerusalem so he can rebuild it. The king obliges to grant that request, by sending him. There was no formal decree here. We would have to add to the word of God to say there was.

    2. Nehemiah asks for a letter To the governors of Trans-Euphrates to give Nehemiah safe passage. The king obliges.

    3. Nehemiah asks for another letter to Asaph, so that he will give him the supplies needed to rebuild the wall and a home for himself. The king obliges. 

In none of these three aspects of Nehemiah was there anything that could be deemed a decree to "rebuild and restore Jerusalem". 

I really am trying to understand where you guys are coming from, though it might seem that I am not because I am not coming off these points... But I studied this all in detail prior to looking for a solution that made better sense. There isn't one.

Cyrus issued the decree as prophesied by Isaiah, restoring Jerusalem as prophesied by Jermiah. Darius issued a decree for no one to get in the way of Cyrus' decree... Thereby reaffirming Cyrus' decree. Artaxerxes, issued decrees to provide the Ezra and Nehemiah the resources they needed to again follow through with finishing THE decree of Cyrus. Thereby, at best reaffirming Cyrus' decree.

I don't know if I can paint a clearer picture than that. It is not complicated by design, but we make it complicated and you already know that I feel this is intentionally deceiving.

Why not instead of trying to stick to the status quo in spite of the evidence that it is not biblically valid, why don't you look at the calculation I put forth and argue the merits of that. This would be a much more fruitful conversation. After all, even the scholars themselves can't argue that the Cyrus decree is a decree to rebuild Jerusalem, though they negate it by saying it was only the temple. They won't deny that Cyrus ended the exile and thereby restored the Israelites to Jerusalem. The detail about his specific reference to rebuild the temple, despite God plainly telling Isaiah that Cyrus would be the one to command Jerusalem to be rebuilt and he would build the foundations of the temple (which is historically accurate)... If one were going to rebuild Jerusalem, where else would they start other than the house of God??? The argument against the decree of Daniel being explicitly given by Cyrus exerts an unreasonable level of scrutiny that is not equally (if at all) applied to the Artaxerxes inferred decree.

There is something that I want to acknowledge here and it is that if I were in your shoes and this was the only way that it would prove that Daniel's prophecy regarding the Messiah was correct... Then I might have a problem too. However, the interpretation I give is far more accurate and lines up to the date of Jesus entering Jerusalem and His crucifixition at the end on the last seven. But that is the kicker isn't it??? It is letting go of that last seven and not using it towards end times prophecy. Well, that should not prevent us from reading God's word literally and not adding or subtracting anything from His infallible, perfect Word.

 

Daniel

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel23
Grammatical errors
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16 hours ago, Daniel23 said:

Marilyn,

Please don't think I am being obnoxious here when I say what I am about to say, because I assure you that I am not. As I read through your post I had the uneasy feeling that you are under a veil of confusion. That for whatever reason, you cannot read it as it is, but have some type of block that is preventing you from being able to do so. Again, I don't mean this as anything negative to you, (and please try to hear me on this) but rather Satan has confused the words for you so you can't read them. Maybe I am wrong, but I will give you some examples of what I am talking about:

The first part of your statement is accurate, though I would add that the people already had began returning from exile, lived in the city of Jerusalem and began making regular offerings and sacrifices before the foundations had been made... They did this because it had been decreed  by Cyrus 7 months earlier to "restore and build" Jerusalem. I know you previous statement you emphasized that scripture doesn't specifically mention Jerusalem in his decree. I would argue that the decree was specific to fulfill The prophecy of Jeremiah that said the exile from Jerusalem would end after 70 years (in other words the people would be restored).  But I also mentioned that in Isaiah 44:28 God says, "“who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please; he will say of Jerusalem, “Let it be rebuilt,” and of the temple, “Let its foundations be laid.” ’” This very specifically says that "Cyrus will say  (decree)" Jerusalem will be rebuilt and that the foundations will be laid. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Daniel23,

I appreciate you writing out your thoughts as it helps me see your thought process.

First we read of God prophesying about the rebuilding of Jerusalem & the Temple, long before the Persian kings took power.

 

The Lord prophesied that king Cyrus would say –

`to Jerusalem, “You shall be built,” & to the temple, “ Your foundations shall be laid.”` (Isa. 44: 28)

This prophetic word concerning the foundations of the temple came about in king Cyrus` time. Then the prophetic word concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem comes about in king Artaxerxes time.

 

The fulfilment of the prophecies.

The Temple - King Cyrus

`Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah.` (Ezra 1: 2)

Jerusalem rebuilt – King Artaxerxes.

`If it pleases the king, & if your servant has found favour in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the CITY of my fathers` tombs, that I may REBUILD it.......(&) let letters be given to me ...`(Neh. 2: 5 – 8)

 

Just because someone prophecies something does not mean that that person fulfils it. God tells us in His word who fulfils the prophecy –

 

King Cyrus – the Temple.

King Artaxerxes – the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

 

Some exiles lived in Jerusalem, however the whole city was NOT rebuilt. And the `decree` you are referring to is in relation to the house of the Lord – the Temple.

 

`Then King Darius issued a decree, & a search was made in the archives......a scroll was found, & in it a record was written thus: “In the first year of King Cyrus, King Cyrus issued a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem: “Let the house be rebuilt,...” ` (Ezra 6: 1 – 3)

 

Quite clear there Daniel, the king Cyrus decreed to build the house of the Lord, BUT NO decree concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem which God`s word clearly tells us came about in king Artaxerxes reign.

 

Marilyn.  

 

 

 

Hi Daniel23,

Just in case you missed my post, here it is again.

Blessings, Marilyn.

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28 minutes ago, Daniel23 said:

I guess I am having a hard time understanding what the significance is of there being multiple Cyrus' and Nebuchadnezzars, since you identify that proper timeline of the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Are you saying that Isaiah was talking about another King Cyrus who would issue a command to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple?? Do you know who this Cyrus is so I can look it up? 

And where are you getting that the work was hindered by Darius? As a matter of fact it explicitly says that the work was not stopped by Darius in Ezra 5:5 (see my earlier reply) I am at a loss as this keeps getting more confusing and the facts just don't line up. The work was hindered under Artaxerxes, as I posted earlier in Ezra 4:13 "“As soon as the copy of the letter of King Artaxerxes was read to Rehum and Shimshai the secretary and their associates, they went immediately to the Jews in Jerusalem and compelled them by force to stop.” and in Ezra 4:14 it says "“Thus the work on the house of God in Jerusalem came to a standstill until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.”.

That all having been said, the fact is that decree of Cyrus was to rebuild AND restore Jerusalem. Obviously the exile had ended (the city was restored with its people) and the construction on the temple began. Sacrifices were being offered. So I really am confused why this is so hard for you to see. Let's break down each "decree" of Artaxerxes one last time and you can tell me where there is an EXPLICIT decree other than just inferring one from information that doesn't support it:

Ezra 4:21- The decree to stop work on the temple.

Ezra 7:13-20- the decree to "allow" any of the Israelites who volunteered to go back. Ezra 7:14 says that they were sent by the King to "inquire about Judah and Jerusalem with regard to your God" and they were to take with them silver and gold from the temple. There is nothing even hinting at rebuilding anything.

Ezra 7:21 - the decree to provide (with diligence) what ever supplies were needed for the temple of God. It says, “Whatever the God of heaven has prescribed, let it be done with diligence for the temple of the God of heaven. Why should his wrath fall on the realm of the king and of his sons?” Again there is nothing in this decree that mentions anything about rebuilding.


‭‭Nehemiah 2:5-9 - This is the closest to a decree that there is in the bible, but it is still not a decree to "restore and rebuild Jerusalem". There are three aspects of this that we can verify without offering guesses that are not biblical:

    1. Nehemiah asks the King to send him to Jerusalem so he can rebuild it. The king obliges to grant that request, by sending him. There was no formal decree here. We would have to add to the word of God to say there was.

    2. Nehemiah asks for a letter To the governors of Trans-Euphrates to give Nehemiah safe passage. The king obliges.

    3. Nehemiah asks for another letter to Asaph, so that he will give him the supplies needed to rebuild the wall and a home for himself. The king obliges. 

In none of these three aspects of Nehemiah was there anything that could be deemed a decree to "rebuild and restore Jerusalem". 

I really am trying to understand where you guys are coming from, though it might seem that I am not because I am not coming off these points... But I studied this all in detail prior to looking for a solution that made better sense. There isn't one.

Cyrus issued the decree as prophesied by Isaiah, restoring Jerusalem as prophesied by Jermiah. Darius issued a decree for no one to get in the way of Cyrus' decree... Thereby reaffirming Cyrus' decree. Artaxerxes, issued decrees to provide the Ezra and Nehemiah the resources they needed to again follow through with finishing THE decree of Cyrus. Thereby, at best reaffirming Cyrus' decree.

I don't know if I can paint a clearer picture than that. It is not complicated by design, but we make it complicated and you already know that I feel this is intentionally deceiving.

Why not instead of trying to stick to the status quo in spite of the evidence that it is not biblically valid, why don't you look at the calculation I put forth and argue the merits of that. This would be a much more fruitful conversation. After all, even the scholars themselves can't argue that the Cyrus decree is a decree to rebuild Jerusalem, though they negate it by saying it was only the temple. They won't deny that Cyrus ended the exile and thereby restored the Israelites to Jerusalem. The detail about his specific reference to rebuild the temple, despite God plainly telling Isaiah that Cyrus would be the one to command Jerusalem to be rebuilt and he would build the foundations of the temple (which is historically accurate)... If one were going to rebuild Jerusalem, where else would they start other than the house of God??? It is an argument using scrutiny not afforded to the Artaxerxes deferred decree.

There is something that I want to acknowledge here and it is that if I were in your shoes and this was the only way that it would prove that Daniel's prophecy regarding the Messiah was correct... Then I might have a problem too. However, the interpretation I give is far more accurate and lines up to the date of Jesus entering Jerusalem and His crucifixition at the end on the last seven. But that is the kicker isn't it??? It is letting go of that last seven and not using it towards end times prophecy. Well that should prevent us from reading God's word literally and not adding or subtracting anything from His infallible, perfect Word.

 

Daniel

 

 

 

The work was not hindered by Darius, but if were familiar with the story, the Jews were under opposition from certain people. 

The decree to rebuild Jerusalem by Cyrus, (for the sixth time mentioned in this thread), did not come into effect until the days of Artaxerxes. This decree was reconfirmed and executed by him.

The work carried out by the Jews during the time of Ezra and Nehemiah was the rebuilding of the walls of Jerusalem and then the temple. Which was in accordance with the decree initially made by Cyrus.

Here is a ref for the names of Kings - google "Nebuchadnezzar" and then "Cyrus" you will find Neb I and Neb II, Cyrus I and Cyrus II just to begin with.

The beginning of the 490 years is the rebuilding going ahead. Which is 457 BC. 

Daniel 9 is an explanation of Daniel 8, which introduces the sanctuary in heaven and the 2300 years. The beginning of the rebuilding marks the beginning of the 2300 years.

Once you shift the starting date of these two prophecies, you land far away from the actual appearance of the Messiah, and more importantly you end up with another date for the end of the 2300 years, which marks the beginning of the last work in the sanctuary for the world. This theme is the prime target of the evil spirit, because it ends the hold of the devil over the hearts and minds of the saints.

The prediction resounds in Revelation "he that is unjust, let him be unjust still, ....and he that is holy, let him be holy still." The wicked have sealed their fate and the righteous are sealed for eternity. God wants to place His seal in our hearts and minds today, while the world receives the seal or mark of the beast.

The sealing is done through the final judgement and ministry of Christ. How can anyone benefit by faith in this ministry, if they are ignorant of it? But it has been predicted that all those who seek the face of God will know of it, because they are looking for it, and those who don't seek, will not know, even if they are told. See Hebrews 8:10 - 12.

Daniel 12:10 reiterates the purpose of the sanctuary service "Many will be purified and made white, and tried, but the wicked shall do wickedly; (they will oppose the knowledge of the heavenly cause) and none of the wicked will understand; but the wise will understand."

Jesus will soon remove His priestly garments, and exchange them for the Kings outfit. 

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55 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

 

Hi Daniel23,

Just in case you missed my post, here it is again.

Blessings, Marilyn.

No I didn't miss it... Just have been driving all day and just responded to the first post I saw. I am going to respond, but at this point not feeling so hopeful because both of you will use the a discerning eye claiming that Cyrus' decree was "only for the temple" but yet use Ezra's words to Artaxerxes as proof of his decree. Does it not even strike you as a bit biased? And to acknowledge that God said Cyrus would say of Jerusalem, "let it be built", but in the next breath say, "but he really just meant Artaxerxes would be the one to decree it".  There is no evidence of any of this in the bible. Is our God a God of confusion? I believe in the literal meaning of the bible and where there is figurative meaning (which I believe there are many instances of this) it needs to first be accepted literally.

i just feel like I am talking to liberals (which I assume both of you are not) about abortion or gay marriage... That no matter how much facts back up my argument, the facts are twisted to the point where they are recognizable in order to fill a narrative they are unwilling to part with. This may be fine if the facts are in history books, but it's not ok when it is the authoritative Word of God. But I will take another run at it when I get home. But again I am not too hopeful of getting you guys to see past this veil of confusion that separates us.

I would like to pose this question to you out of curiosity:

I keep banging the drum that you cannot take liberties with the Word of God, subtract or add to what is already there... I know you both don't think that you are doing this, but it is evident to me that you are. That being said, do you think that I am adding or subtracting from the Word? If so could you give me specific examples of where you feel I might be doing this? I ask this earnestly, as I don't want to become party to a self delusion and will honestly weigh your comments against what I have posted thus far and compare that to the Word. 

 

Thanks!

 

Daniel

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16 hours ago, Daniel23 said:

No I didn't miss it... Just have been driving all day and just responded to the first post I saw.......

I would like to pose this question to you out of curiosity:

I keep banging the drum that you cannot take liberties with the Word of God, subtract or add to what is already there... I know you both don't think that you are doing this, but it is evident to me that you are. That being said, do you think that I am adding or subtracting from the Word? If so could you give me specific examples of where you feel I might be doing this? I ask this earnestly, as I don't want to become party to a self delusion and will honestly weigh your comments against what I have posted thus far and compare that to the Word. 

 

Thanks!

 

Daniel

Hi Daniel23,

You must be tired driving all day. Just take your time, now bro as we are discussing God`s word & it needs concentration. I posted again as I hadn`t put in a quote from you & that often means it doesn`t get registered to you. Anyway glad you are looking into it.

Also have you noticed that you say a lot of comments but you really don`t develop this with the scriptures. I`m also glad you ask earnestly, for I also have some questions for you after we have discussed this point. Let`s take it a step at a time -

God tells us prophetically, that king Cyrus will say of Jerusalem, “You shall be built, “& to the temple, “Your foundation shall be laid.” (Isa. 44: 28) This only tells us that the king (told by God) is saying that Jerusalem & the foundation of the temple will be built. It does NOT say that he will do it or decree it. This is where you, I believe are assuming he does it.

 

God specifically commanded king Cyrus to build the house of the Lord.

`Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah.` (Ezra 1: 2)

 

King Artaxeres sends a letter to the commander (adversaries) etc for the Jews in Jerusalem saying that the city may NOT be built.

     `Now give the command to make these men cease, that this city MAY NOT BE built until the command is given by me.”` (Ezra 4: 17 & 21)

 

Then we have Nehemiah asking king Artaxerxes

`If it pleases the king, & if your servant has found favour in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the CITY of my fathers` tombs, that I may REBUILD it.......(&) let letters be given to me ...`(Neh. 2: 5 – 8)

 

Thus it is quite clear to me who gave the command, the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. King Cyrus prophetically said it, & king Artaxerxes actually decreed it.

 

Marilyn.

 

  

Edited by Marilyn C
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The ten toes half iron half clay represents Rome and the reuniting of the Roman Empire in the Last Days. That is the right leg Palestine and to the right parts of Asia and the left leg most of Arabia Countries. This shows the place where the action will come in the last days of power, war and destruction to try to decimate one more time Israel. That is my understanding of it. I have heard Chuck Missler teach on this, I have had others show the AntiChrist will be from the Middle East from Egypt being under the Quran. It all ties in together. I know that We have a lot to be thankful for. Blessings and tc 

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13 hours ago, omegalamed said:

The ten toes half iron half clay represents Rome and the reuniting of the Roman Empire in the Last Days. That is the right leg Palestine and to the right parts of Asia and the left leg most of Arabia Countries. This shows the place where the action will come in the last days of power, war and destruction to try to decimate one more time Israel. That is my understanding of it. I have heard Chuck Missler teach on this, I have had others show the AntiChrist will be from the Middle East from Egypt being under the Quran. It all ties in together. I know that We have a lot to be thankful for. Blessings and tc 

Hi omegalamed,

Pleased to meet you & see you talking in the eschatology section. However did you realise you have posted on the wrong thread. The topic you want is the Great Image.

Blessings, Marilyn.

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Blessings Marilyn,,,,,

    Oh Sister,I see that sparkling fruit of "patience",,,,,,,,,God Bless you Beloved,no doubt you are a Peacemaker & I love you,,,,,,,,I just thought I'd mention it,,,,:emot-heartbeat:

    Interesting Topic & I was considering joining you BUT,I am not one to read & read & read the LONG replies and so I will refrain,,,,,,,,eschatology requires much attention and it's unfair to "half" read what anyone has contributed -by this time of day I am just plum out of steam-lol,,,,, Perhaps tomorrow?

     God Bless you all,play nice                                     To God be the Glory                 With love-in Christ,Kwik

      

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