Daniel 8

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Spock said:

I would be interested in reading your take on this article pertaining to Daniel 8:. Thanks.

http://endtimepilgrim.org/daniel-8.htm

Hi Spock,

Just popped in here & read your link. Did you notice that the writer put on his diagram that the King of the North is Syria. He actually should have stopped there & not gone on to what I think are `many rabbit holes.` Not really meaning to be rude but I think we can so complicate what God says & add so much that it all becomes `too hard,` & let`s leave it to the `experts.`

God`s word, to me is very clear. He says what He means & means what He says. So here goes -

`As birds flying, so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also He will deliver it; & passing over it He will preserve it......Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; & the sword , not of a mean man shall devour him;....` (Isa. 31: 5 - 8)

Ancient Assyria comprised - Syria, Iraq & Jordan.

Did you know that Andre Agassi (the famous USA tennis player) is an Assyrian? It is still a nationality. (Not that I think he is the A/C.)

So we have -

* King of the North - Syria - region.

* The Assyrian - Nationality.

* Focus of the world in the Middle East - Syria & Iraq.

 

A few red light are flashing for me, bro. Marilyn.

 

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again "Sister",

3 hours ago, Sister said:

Yes Daniel 2 is the key to unlocking who all these beasts are, mentioned throughout other parts of Daniel.  This is our base point, with our definitions in Chapter 8 giving more detail.

The head is Babylon. 

I am a bit confused by your Posts. My understanding is that the four metals of Daniel 2 are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. I also believe that the four beasts of Daniel 7 are the same four kingdoms or empires, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. The fifth kingdom is the Kingdom of God that will replace these kingdoms of men at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ when he returns to sit upon the throne of David in Jerusalem Daniel 2:44, 7:27, Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14.

Kind regards

Trevor

[Spock]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Just popped in here & read your link. Did you notice that the writer put on his diagram that the King of the North is Syria. He actually should have stopped there & not gone on to what I think are `many rabbit holes.` Not really meaning to be rude but I think we can so complicate what God says & add so much that it all becomes `too hard,` & let`s leave it to the `experts.`

God`s word, to me is very clear. He says what He means & means what He says. So here goes -

`As birds flying, so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also He will deliver it; & passing over it He will preserve it......Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; & the sword , not of a mean man shall devour him;....` (Isa. 31: 5 - 8)

Ancient Assyria comprised - Syria, Iraq & Jordan.

Did you know that Andre Agassi (the famous USA tennis player) is an Assyrian? It is still a nationality. (Not that I think he is the A/C.)

So we have -

* King of the North - Syria - region.

* The Assyrian - Nationality.

* Focus of the world in the Middle East - Syria & Iraq.

 

A few red light are flashing for me, bro. Marilyn.

 

 

Actually Marilyn, I did notice that reference you alluded to regarding the king of the north.

so, it can't be Assad and it certainly isn't anyone from Iraq, the Jordan dude is pretty insignificant so are we thinking this man has not come to the forefront yet, right? 

[Esther4:14]

Hi Spock, 

I find this an interesting topic.  For some time now, the only thing that was significant to me out of Daniel 8 was from Daniel 8:25 which says, "And he will lift himself up in his heart, and by peace; he shall destroy many.  

I have found this to be the most significant portion of this chapter because as everyone here knows, the prophecy forum of a Christian message board can often resemble a perception that prophecy is going to be much more action packed than a movie with Dwayne Johnson.  

But, the book of Daniel says by peace, he will destroy many-how very, very bizarre.  To be destroyed during a time of peace.  Personally, I think there is a lot more that is relevant to how I live than much of the discussion pertaining to what the ram and the goat means-whether it means this, that, or the other.  

However, I do enjoy coming on, when I have time, to challenge myself a little with something that is familiar to me the way this chapter is to me.  When I think of Daniel 8, this is where my mind goes, so I am going to try to stretch it a little.  

In my opinion, the ram of Daniel is the Roman empire who expands itself to the Anglo-Saxon territory and eventually falls.  With the fall of Rome, comes the goat, or Anglo-Saxon-England-Great Britain territory in the west.  This he-goat in all directions (Daniel 8:9), evidenced by any map demonstrating the presence of Great Britain before the end of imperialism and the pervading expansion of English as an almost universal language.  

I am inspired to believe this based on the impression I got in one of my more recent history classes.  I was struck by the position Great Britain was in before both world wars.  The unrest that was building because of their presence in foreign countries.  If anything, it appeared as though the wars almost benefited them by taking the attention off of them and diverting it to other nations that would appear stronger as a result of the wars.  One in particular being the United States, which would make the US part of the four (Daniel 8:8).  

Then, it says in Daniel 8:9 "and out of one of them came a little horn which became very great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the bountiful land," and wouldn't you know that it was out this transfer of power that the state of Israel was established toward the bountiful land.  

Then, the chapter continues on to describe the one who will magnify himself and take away the sacrifice (Daniel 8:11).  

I am going to throw this out there for your consideration.  There is a book by Karl Marx called On the Jewish Question where Marx expresses his opinion that there is no need for ritual if you are a Jew.  There is the counter-argument that his remarks are anti-semitic even though he is a Jew himself.  I suppose one could try to make the argument that his opinion does not even reflect Judaism, but even if it is does not reflect Judaism as a religion, that does not mean that Marx is not a Jew.  To try to dissociate him as a Jew is to say that practicing traditions is what makes a Jew a Jew and in that case, claiming to be a descendant of Abraham has absolutely no value because anyone can get circumcised.  Anyone can practice the Sabbath.  Anyone can do any number of things that were required of a Jew and then does this mean they are a Jew.  Well yes, that is how Rahab and Ruth are in the genealogy of Christ but that is for another thread.  

Legitimately, some might try to do this out of fear and the desire to protect themselves from persecution.  However, this is more than likely the reason that Marx did this himself.  Not out of fear, but out of a strategy to manipulate others to give him what he believed he deserved in bitterness.  What he is actually suggesting is a modern form of crypto-Judaism that is different than a Marrano who would light candles in secret and practice other parts of Judaism in secret.  What he is saying is that you do not have to do these things because you will not lose the blessings of Abraham either way.  If you sacrifice or you don't, either way, you are still a Jew and you will still deserve more than other people will. 

Therefore, what Marx is essentially doing is establishing a foundation to take away the sacrifice which will fit perfectly with the establishment of the state of Israel fulfilling Daniel 8:9.  Then, imagine a world with communism and without Christ is a world where people are destroyed during a time of peace.  

May He bless you in your pursuit of truth

 

[Last Daze]

13 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Kan

It's not a biggie, but this needs to be cleaned up.

Daniel was under the rule of Babylon at the time of this prophecy.  The 4 beasts that were to come after Babylon are these "Kings";

For your consideration:

• As for you, O king, while on your bed your thoughts turned to what would take place in the future; and He who reveals mysteries has made known to you what will take place.  Daniel 2:29  [the great statue]
• These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth.  Daniel 7:17  [the four beasts]

Both prophecies speak about the future.  Based on the first passage, its not necessary that all of the prophecy be future since Babylon was the ruling kingdom.  I agree with Trevor that they speak of the same kingdoms.  The great statue is from the natural perspective, how these kingdoms are manifested in the natural realm.  The four beasts prophecy is from a supernatural perspective and focuses on the evil angel princes that spawn these earthly kingdoms.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Spock said:

Actually Marilyn, I did notice that reference you alluded to regarding the king of the north.

so, it can't be Assad and it certainly isn't anyone from Iraq, the Jordan dude is pretty insignificant so are we thinking this man has not come to the forefront yet, right? 

Hi Spock,

Oh that`s good that you did notice that. And yes I don`t see him in the forefront at the moment, though there is a temporary ceasefire there. But that is not the same as bringing the different groups together.

Now as regards the Assyrian,  - that nationality come from the region of Syria & Iraq, which was all one area prior to the allies carving it up. Note that is why ISIS the Islamic state covers both areas for they see themselves as one entity, not 2 or even 3 with Jordan.

Marilyn.

 

[Sister]

15 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again "Sister",

I am a bit confused by your Posts. My understanding is that the four metals of Daniel 2 are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.

 

Trevor

Agreed.

We know the head is Babylon as Daniel clearly stated this to Neb.
 

Quote

 

I also believe that the four beasts of Daniel 7 are the same four kingdoms or empires, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.

 

 

But in this particular vision showing only the four beasts,  Daniel was showing what "kings" would arise AFTER Babylon.  King Neb is gone, and his Grandson is ruling.

 

The Lion can not be Babylon, read here and maybe you can see;

  Daniel 5:24   Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written.

  Daniel 5:25   And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.

  Daniel 5:26   This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.

  Daniel 5:27   TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.

  Daniel 5:28   PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

  Daniel 5:29   Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom.

  Daniel 5:30   In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.

  Daniel 5:31   And Darius the Median took the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old.

 

Darius is that "Lion", and the last king of the Persians is the "bear" with the 3 ribs in his mouth.

I've shown already why Darius' wings were clipped;

  Daniel 6:25   Then king Darius wrote unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.

  Daniel 6:26   I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.

[ARGOSY]

21 hours ago, Spock said:

Actually Marilyn, I did notice that reference you alluded to regarding the king of the north.

so, it can't be Assad and it certainly isn't anyone from Iraq, the Jordan dude is pretty insignificant so are we thinking this man has not come to the forefront yet, right? 

Hi Spock,

I agree that he has not yet come to forefront. The antichrist will have a strong Jewish connection. Jesus warned of false Messiahs who deceive the world through signs and wonders during the time of the great tribulation. This Matthew 24 description matches antichrist descriptions as per 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13.  A Messiah is the expected Jewish warrior-king, and so a false Messiah is a false Jewish warrior-king.  Israel needs an excuse to expand and they have already befriended the Kurds who are also a nation without a homeland and need Jewish help to create that homeland.

So I suspect the modern day "king of the North" will be a Kurdish or Iraqi  Jew, them being from the same region as the Seleucid king of the north. The ancient western flavour (greek) of the Seleucid kings being matched by a future European/Ashkenazi Jewish intermarriage with a Kurdish Jew.  The bible does not go into detail here, so its a wait and see approach.

 

[Kan]

On 2/28/2016 at 7:05 AM, ARGOSY said:

Lol, I'm blocking nothing in my head. Yes Daniel "Sevens" were seven year periods. This is what a seven is. It can also be seven days. So the word "seven" had a dual meaning. Jews had 7 sevens (49 years) then a Jubilee year. This made up a 50 year period. Maybe you are trying to say that Daniel used a day=year system, but I am saying that was a year=year system.    I am not denying that a day=year system is possible. It's just whenever the specific 3.5 year period is mentioned it overlaps so well with the great tribulation why then look for symbolic days when literal days work perfectly well? 

What exercises would you like me to do? Believe me I have been studying this 3.5 year period for years, in depth, and all of them fit into the great tribulation. Daniel 7, Daniel 9:27, Daniel 12, Matthew 24, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13. 

The literal days don't work. If they did, then Daniel would be all over centuries before Christ came, but we have Jesus talking about some of their fulfillment in the near future of the disciples. Can you calculate them both ways? I don't think so. I'll be straight with you, I do not think that you have done the homework, otherwise you would agree with me, you're not silly.

[ARGOSY]

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