enoob57 Posted January 25, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,053 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,387 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I Love this apologetic.... as I believe it to be foundation to creation:https://answersingenesis.org/is-the-bible-true/how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-true/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted January 26, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,352 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,324 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Online Share Posted January 26, 2016 The author of the article relies heavily on a misunderstood concept of proof/prove/proven. The final sentence is pertinent; “The proof of the Bible is that unless its truth is presupposed, we couldn’t prove anything at all”. Proof is an absolutist concept that implies certainty. In reality, we cannot logically “prove anything at all” beyond question. Only faith makes provision for such certainty. No provided evidence or arguments can ascertain the absolute truth of any claim. As such, the author also fails to provide an argument delivering the promised level of certainty – or “proof”. One can only objectively provide evidence; i.e. facts that can be interpreted to support the truth of scripture. But that can never, on its own, provide the certainty implied by the term proof. Faith is required to claim certainty in any supernatural claim; such as God preserving the integrity of scripture. Evidence supporting the truth of scripture demonstrates that our faith is rational – as opposed to blind, irrational faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonky Posted January 26, 2016 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 346 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2016 I felt a sense of irony as I skimmed the article. On one hand I was very impressed with their acknowledgement of the weaknesses of the common individual arguments; but then I had to raise an eyebrow at their conclusions. They end with statements that essentially say "It's obvious the Bible is true..." or "Those who say they don't believe in our God are liars". Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 26, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,053 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,387 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 Yes the substantiation of Spirit as underlayment of all things.... it is the foundation that is a must in order for what is seen to be! Those not born of The Spirit of God cannot see it and try to fit the sensually perceived as the causal of itself... in this their logic is skewed into self evident error not perceived in themselves! Simply if one does not believe it is because they have chosen that which is caused to be the causal substance. The presence of the material itself in the presentation of itself demands for God to be the causal agent in metaphysical realties... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonky Posted January 26, 2016 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 346 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2016 Enoob, how do you differentiate your statements from a crazy cult that says "Until you accept what we say as true you will never see the light?" I'm not even sure I understand you properly to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted January 26, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.12 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, Bonky said: Enoob, how do you differentiate your statements from a crazy cult that says "Until you accept what we say as true you will never see the light?" I'm not even sure I understand you properly to be honest. He has just proven his point; you don't really understand his statement. There are none so blind as those who will not see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonky Posted January 26, 2016 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 346 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2016 10 minutes ago, MorningGlory said: He has just proven his point; you don't really understand his statement. There are none so blind as those who will not see. Ok so what was enoob trying to convey, in your words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 24, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,053 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,387 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 On 1/26/2016 at 9:26 AM, Bonky said: Enoob, how do you differentiate your statements from a crazy cult that says "Until you accept what we say as true you will never see the light?" I'm not even sure I understand you properly to be honest. The engine of thought proceeds like this- investigate the written Word thoroughly without bias... this Bonky you cannot do for you are already persuaded by spiritual influence within you and without -world, large mass of unbelievers, natural desires etc. This over- whelming influence we all are born into and it must be reckoned as such to remove bias... The world is duped by the angel Lucifer. The true dishonesty is to believer were honest to start with!!! The dupe of satan is that we trust ourselves to be reliable yet all we need to do is to examine humanity to find out honestly 'we are not'... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendtre Posted February 24, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 2 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,420 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 322 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, enoob57 said: The engine of thought proceeds like this- investigate the written Word thoroughly without bias... this Bonky you cannot do for you are already persuaded by spiritual influence within you and without -world, large mass of unbelievers, natural desires etc. This over- whelming influence we all are born into and it must be reckoned as such to remove bias... The world is duped by the angel Lucifer. The true dishonesty is to believer were honest to start with!!! The dupe of satan is that we trust ourselves to be reliable yet all we need to do is to examine humanity to find out honestly 'we are not'... Love, Steven It is not possible to remove all bias from your investigation/reading. To assume you are bias free is the greatest bias of all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 24, 2016 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2016 The disciples of Jesus had the same problem in the NT. Read it to see how Jesus directed them to the Father in heaven and fixed it.((gradually; yes, it took time)) ((no, they did not remove bias , they could not; Yahweh dealt with it AFTER they were immersed in Jesus Name, AFTER they placed their trust IN HIM and relied on HIM, HE dealt with it Perfectly)) or , do you think the Creator and Savior , after DYING ON A TREE A CURSE FOR SINNERS, just left logs in everybody's eye ? Didn't clean up their lives ? 4 minutes ago, Vendtre said: It is not possible to remove all bias from your investigation/reading. To assume you are bias free is the greatest bias of all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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