DISPENSATIONALISM, DO WE AGREE TO THIS OR REJECT IT ?

[SINNERSAVED]

DISPENSATIONALISM, something I did not know about until recently, and wanted to get input from others and what their take is on this?

 I have looked it up and I have looked at a lot of scriptures , before posting this , so I am well aware of this and what it mean,

now with that said, to me I believe that it does make a lot of sense , and really it brings together all that I have stated together as far , as following the law  (Torah ) , and to see that we today think that the church is a new thing ? WHEN it is actually not , for church is assembly , or gathering and they ,

 did that all the time in the past , now when Jesus said on this rock , I will build my church  talking about peter ,this was not a new thing that every one says this is when the church was formed or started ? in fact it was on this apostle that had the faith , and what Jesus wanted to pass down for we to learn from,  so I believe this has been taken out of context , for a very long time,

 so we have what people say is a separation of church , and the Israel and that they are two different and not of the same nation or people , and that  ?

Israel is israel and the new  church of today , is not of Israel , and so everything under the sun? is for the people of the Israel , and today its for the church , well ,

hear is where it gets clear, we are grafted into the olive tree, the original tree that is already rooted in God, and we are as gentiles the wild brances , grafted in, to the already existing tree, and so we become, one,  and in the end time the original branches will come back into the olive tree,

for it was cut off, but  we are not to boast , that God will bring them back , for by this we are one body , and not two bodies, and what goes for one goes for both  so we are now considered all of one nation and royal priest hood a holy and called out nation for God, judah and Israel  has separated , but in he end will become all one,

 so even though we are gentiles we are subject to the law the Torah, and we are all saved by Grace by Jesus , there are many scriptures to back all of his up so , for many will disagree, and that's okay for if you do disagree, then you are not seeing the word of God and how He has called you and Israel His people and His nation, for the law will be written on our hearts  the Torah, so do you see it , even with the new covenant we are still to abide in Gods commandments , and not toss it out,

 we are to obey and abide in Christ for we are also crucified with Christ, and we are all one body , there is now no difference between jew and greek , and no division from jews and aliens, we are all called to come into one nation under one God under His law and Grace

I see so many separating these two the gentiles from the jews, and never could understand why , and now I see that this is a false teaching, so if you think I am wrong , please feel free to correct me, but , I will say I am correct, ? for scripture backs all of this up, and for uyears and life we have followed man made doctrines  and pagan and roman rules to the faith , and if we separate our selves to just the law , and Grace, we will see that we are not separate , we are one olive tree, intertwined together, and God is our God,

for those with a hard time with this, then how do you say I worship the God of issaac ,Jacob and Abraham ? yes we are gentiles , but we are now made to be the people of God there is no division,

also in revelation there was a multitude that no one could number around the throne of all nations and tongues , and people , so you see, we are all one happy holy nation, in the sight of God and we are all accountable for making sure we are following Gods law, the Torah, and we are under Grace, at the same time,   I hope this is a blessing to others , thank you for hearing me, please do your research , and test what I said to be true, ?thank you

[Qnts2]

33 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

DISPENSATIONALISM, something I did not know about until recently, and wanted to get input from others and what their take is on this?

 I have looked it up and I have looked at a lot of scriptures , before posting this , so I am well aware of this and what it mean,

now with that said, to me I believe that it does make a lot of sense , and really it brings together all that I have stated together as far , as following the law  (Torah ) , and to see that we today think that the church is a new thing ? WHEN it is actually not , for church is assembly , or gathering and they ,

 did that all the time in the past , now when Jesus said on this rock , I will build my church  talking about peter ,this was not a new thing that every one says this is when the church was formed or started ? in fact it was on this apostle that had the faith , and what Jesus wanted to pass down for we to learn from,  so I believe this has been taken out of context , for a very long time,

 so we have what people say is a separation of church , and the Israel and that they are two different and not of the same nation or people , and that  ?

Israel is israel and the new  church of today , is not of Israel , and so everything under the sun? is for the people of the Israel , and today its for the church , well ,

hear is where it gets clear, we are grafted into the olive tree, the original tree that is already rooted in God, and we are as gentiles the wild brances , grafted in, to the already existing tree, and so we become, one,  and in the end time the original branches will come back into the olive tree,

for it was cut off, but  we are not to boast , that God will bring them back , for by this we are one body , and not two bodies, and what goes for one goes for both  so we are now considered all of one nation and royal priest hood a holy and called out nation for God, judah and Israel  has separated , but in he end will become all one,

 so even though we are gentiles we are subject to the law the Torah, and we are all saved by Grace by Jesus , there are many scriptures to back all of his up so , for many will disagree, and that's okay for if you do disagree, then you are not seeing the word of God and how He has called you and Israel His people and His nation, for the law will be written on our hearts  the Torah, so do you see it , even with the new covenant we are still to abide in Gods commandments , and not toss it out,

 we are to obey and abide in Christ for we are also crucified with Christ, and we are all one body , there is now no difference between jew and greek , and no division from jews and aliens, we are all called to come into one nation under one God under His law and Grace

I see so many separating these two the gentiles from the jews, and never could understand why , and now I see that this is a false teaching, so if you think I am wrong , please feel free to correct me, but , I will say I am correct, ? for scripture backs all of this up, and for uyears and life we have followed man made doctrines  and pagan and roman rules to the faith , and if we separate our selves to just the law , and Grace, we will see that we are not separate , we are one olive tree, intertwined together, and God is our God,

for those with a hard time with this, then how do you say I worship the God of issaac ,Jacob and Abraham ? yes we are gentiles , but we are now made to be the people of God there is no division,

also in revelation there was a multitude that no one could number around the throne of all nations and tongues , and people , so you see, we are all one happy holy nation, in the sight of God and we are all accountable for making sure we are following Gods law, the Torah, and we are under Grace, at the same time,   I hope this is a blessing to others , thank you for hearing me, please do your research , and test what I said to be true, ?thank you

In my view, the church is a new assembly. It is something new. With a New Covenant, unlike the Mosaic covenant. When a person becomes a believer, they become a new creation while the children of Israel are not new creations. The children of Israel, if not believers which most are not, are not new creations, but using biblical terminology are in Adam.

The parable of the Olive Tree from the NT is an interesting one. In it, the natural branches are the children of Israel, most being cut off.  That means that the root of the Olive Tree is not Israel. In the OT, Israel received the promise of the Messiah, but also, the OT prophesies that the Gentiles will be drawn to the Messiah. The breaking off of most of the natural Israel branches is based on the rejection of the Messiah, and the inclusion of wild Gentile branches is based on the Gentile accepting the Messiah. So the root is the promise of the Messiah as He is the basis of being on the Olive Tree in that NT parable. Since the children of Israel, mostly broken off natural branches, are still called Israel, they are now a separate assembly.

The statement in scripture about there being no Jews or Greek, refers usually to the way of salvation. That scripture usually also states, there are not male or female, bond or free. The statement is in relationship to the way to be saved. In light of salvation, Jews and Gentiles, men and women, bond and free are all saved the same way. There is no difference in how one must be saved. Of those who are saved, there is no superiority between Jews and Gentiles, men and women, bond and free as all are equal in that assembly.

The term, One Nation under God, is a U.S. slogan. The term sees nation as meaning country. In Hebrew, the word translated as nation is goy, which refers to a people group. In historical biblical terminology, a nation/people group is basically an ethnic group. A groups of people with a common ancestor. The Egyptians are a nation/people group. What that means is a member of a ethnic group, is a member of that ethnic group, whether they live in the land of the ethnic group or not. So, and Egyptian who does not live in Egypt is still an Egyptian.

The church is a new nation, made up of people from different ethnic groups. That is unlike any previous nation. It is something entirely new, without a common ancestor, but is a new nation, as the people are a new creation.      

 

[WilliamL]

41 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

In my view, the church is a new assembly. It is something new. With a New Covenant, unlike the Mosaic covenant. When a person becomes a believer, they become a new creation while the children of Israel are not new creations. The children of Israel, if not believers which most are not, are not new creations, but using biblical terminology are in Adam.

I agree with all the basics of what you've written. Would just add that Israel derives both from Adam and from Abraham: the former being of the flesh, the latter of the soul-in-the-bloodline: that is, race.

What makes the Church distinct is that it is also of the Spirit, which is internal with every born from above believer. Israel only had/has the Spirit "come upon" them: the Spirit never indwelt them. That indwelling only comes through the entirely New Covenant.

[SINNERSAVED]

I agree with you on some of this and I wanted to clear up the one nation under God, was actually a people under the real and true God of the bible, an I was not referring to the American view of a nation under God ,

for we are a world under the God of this world for now , until he is completely destroyed, for we are a nation in America but under satan, and the demonic spirits of evil and lawlessness ,

and all this is about time and Gods appointed times to take its course and to make right what man has made corrupt, and so we are saved yes ,and by the blood of Jesus , and we are  awaiting our master , savior , and God to come and redeem ,what He has paid for with such a high price for the work was finished and nailed to the cross, and so ,we need to be watching and be ready for the fullness of the Gentiles , and then we shall be taken away , and the end will come

[missmuffet]

I am a dispensationalist and it is a Biblical belief.

Question: "What is dispensationalism and is it biblical?"

Answer: A dispensation is a way of ordering things—an administration, a system, or a management. In theology, a dispensation is the divine administration of a period of time; each dispensation is a divinely appointed age. Dispensationalism is a theological system that recognizes these ages ordained by God to order the affairs of the world. Dispensationalism has two primary distinctives: 1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and 2) a view of the uniqueness of Israel as separate from the church in God’s program. Classical dispensationalism identifies seven dispensations in God’s plan for humanity.

Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible as the best hermeneutic. The literal interpretation gives each word the meaning it would commonly have in everyday usage. Allowances are made for symbols, figures of speech, and types, of course. It is understood that even symbols and figurative sayings have literal meanings behind them. So, for example, when the Bible speaks of “a thousand years” in Revelation 20, dispensationalists interpret it as a literal period of 1,000 years (the dispensation of the Kingdom), since there is no compelling reason to interpret it otherwise.

There are at least two reasons why literalism is the best way to view Scripture. First, philosophically, the purpose of language itself requires that we interpret words literally. Language was given by God for the purpose of being able to communicate. Words are vessels of meaning. The second reason is biblical. Every prophecy about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament was fulfilled literally. Jesus’ birth, ministry, death, and resurrection all occurred exactly as the Old Testament predicted. The prophecies were literal. There is no non-literal fulfillment of messianic prophecies in the New Testament. This argues strongly for the literal method. If a literal interpretation is not used in studying the Scriptures, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. Each person would be able to interpret the Bible as he saw fit. Biblical interpretation would devolve into “what this passage says to me” instead of “the Bible says.” Sadly, this is already the case in much of what is called Bible study today.

Dispensational theology teaches that there are two distinct peoples of God: Israel and the church. Dispensationalists believe that salvation has always been by faith—in God in the Old Testament and specifically in God the Son in the New Testament. Dispensationalists hold that the church has not replaced Israel in God’s program and that the Old Testament promises to Israel have not been transferred to the church. Dispensationalism teaches that the promises God made to Israel in the Old Testament (for land, many descendants, and blessings) will be ultimately fulfilled in the 1000-year period spoken of in Revelation 20. Dispensationalists believe that, just as God is in this age focusing His attention on the church, He will again in the future focus His attention on Israel (seeRomans 9–11 and Daniel 9:24).

Dispensationalists understand the Bible to be organized into seven dispensations: Innocence (Genesis 1:1—3:7), Conscience (Genesis 3:8—8:22), Human Government (Genesis 9:1—11:32), Promise (Genesis 12:1—Exodus 19:25), Law (Exodus 20:1—Acts 2:4), Grace (Acts 2:4—Revelation 20:3), and the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20:4–6). Again, these dispensations are not paths to salvation, but manners in which God relates to man. Each dispensation includes a recognizable pattern of how God worked with people living in the dispensation. That pattern is 1) a responsibility, 2) a failure, 3) a judgment, and 4) grace to move on.

Dispensationalism, as a system, results in a premillennial interpretation of Christ’s second coming and usually a pretribulational interpretation of the rapture. To summarize, dispensationalism is a theological system that emphasizes the literal interpretation of Bible prophecy, recognizes a distinction between Israel and the church, and organizes the Bible into different dispensations or administrations.

http://www.gotquestions.org/dispensationalism.html

[Ezra]

9 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

DISPENSATIONALISM, something I did not know about until recently, and wanted to get input from others and what their take is on this?

1. Dispensationalism is simply a helpful system of interpreting Scripture ( and a system of Hermeneutics which Covenant Theologians hate).

2. What it teaches is that God deals with men at different times and in different ways, although the Gospel never changes, and the plan of salvation is always the same. Many dispensations correspond to the primary covenants in Scripture.

3. Dispensationalists divide human history (as related to God) generally into seven dispensations, although five might be more accurate.

4. Dispensationalists see that God has a distinct eternal plan for the Church, and another for redeemed and restored Israel on earth.

5. Dispensationalists interpret the Bible in its plain, literal, historical sense (unless there is a good reason to see metaphors and symbols).  Therefore Dispensationalists are futurists and believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

[mevosper]

Serving

I think one needs to be careful when talking about Torah and if we should be following that or not. Not sure if that was the intention of your post, but that is one message I picked up. There were others, but this one stuck out.

The Apostles, deciding whether or not the Gentiles should follow circumcision and the Mosaic law, recommended only a few things that they should obey.

In Acts 15, there was quite a bit of debate (vs 2, vs7) about whether the Gentiles should be circumcised or not (vs 2, vs 5). This was a law given to Abraham for his descendants.  Eventually this came down to the entire Mosaic law (vs 5). Here's where Peter steps in (the one upon whom the church will be built) and makes clear the reason for the gospel. By grace is there salvation, not through works. (vs 7-11). In the conculsion of this debate, it was determined that they should not have to bear the burden of circumsion or the Mosaic law, but to obstain from fornication, pollutions of idols, from things strangled and from blood (vs 20). Interesting note, the word "church" is used in verse 22 with respect to a gathering of jews, as opposed to Gentiles. 

Circumcision and the Mosaic Law were not required any longer. The old way had been done away with and the new way had been set.

My perspective on the reason for the Mosaic law and circumcision is a bit different. In order for God to dwell with his people (pre-Christ), He had to bring heaven to earth (so to speak). In order for that to happen, specific requirements needed to be fulfilled. These being the Mosaic Law: the apparel of the priests, the daily sacrifices, the feasts, etc.

I'm not sure why, but I feel the 10 commandments (Ex 20) are the specific laws that God writes on the fleshy tables of the heart. 

 

[SINNERSAVED]

I have brought this about ,because, to bring into a separation of Jews and Gentiles as two different , and keeping both at bay, I do not believe God intended that we stay separated and that this is His plan, the jews are jews , and the Gentiles are the Gentiles,  but we are ,brought together in one tree the olive tree the original and the wild branches, mixed and yet, forged together to be of one root, and of one God , and all that he expects us to be as believers, ?

 I do not think God wants us to be puffed up and boasting in this fact that , we are called in by grace and we are the outsider the alien,

and yet in the day that the lord has appointed Israel will come back into the tree , so I believe this is what the definition of the do not boast against the original branches, and we are not to say what was good for the people of days past and Israel does not go for us today as Gentiles coming in, we are one people, in One spirit , and One God that is our calling to HIm in obedience, and truth , for we are of Judah , so to speak ? and this is what I was trying to bring to the table , we are no longer different ,

let me try to give a Example of this, we have a Israeli family dad ,mom sister and then they adopt a new gentile brother, they are not all the same but they have become one family , a new step son and brother , and family , now they are all subjected to the rules and traditions and customs of one family of there origin , and as we are Gentiles brought in to the family of the olive tree the isreali , and gentiles are together , under the father God in heaven of Jacob , Isaac and Abraham , so this is how we should look at todays church and the jews of the chosen land of God, I pray this helped and made sense for we continually try to separate the two , in every Christian church I attendend , but now I see it clear,

[Qnts2]

8 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

I agree with you on some of this and I wanted to clear up the one nation under God, was actually a people under the real and true God of the bible, an I was not referring to the American view of a nation under God ,

for we are a world under the God of this world for now , until he is completely destroyed, for we are a nation in America but under satan, and the demonic spirits of evil and lawlessness ,

and all this is about time and Gods appointed times to take its course and to make right what man has made corrupt, and so we are saved yes ,and by the blood of Jesus , and we are  awaiting our master , savior , and God to come and redeem ,what He has paid for with such a high price for the work was finished and nailed to the cross, and so ,we need to be watching and be ready for the fullness of the Gentiles , and then we shall be taken away , and the end will come

Ok, I contested One Nation under God, as scripture never says that there is one and only one nation under God.

I personally believe we are coming close to the fullness of the Gentiles because the number of children of Israel who are accepting Jesus is increasing. And, many different groups dedicated to sharing the gospel with the Jewish people all feel called to make a big effort to preaching the gospel in Israel, and children of Israel are returning to the land of Israel, as prophesied.

[simplejeff]

it is written that all  the peoples ((except the remnant/ elect)) are gathered against Yahweh's purpose, all persecuting His children, all dragging down one another in wickednesses filling the earth...until they are filled up to the appointed evil being revealed on the earth under the power of the beast and the false prophet...as revealed centuries ago up to 1991 ((apparently or possibly a critical year  for churches worldwide/historically /spiritually))

they((leaders of all the nations)) are all committing ((and have been for centuries)) spiritual fornication with the powers/agents of evil  on earth.