Spock Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 I searched the word "hell" and did not find a thread so here goes. You know we have heard preachers say "if you don't accept Jesus you will spend eternity burning in Hell." Do you really believe that is biblical, or is it possible God will just extinguish your life after the Great White throne judgment? What purpose does it serve anyhow to burn forever? Anyhow, I know believers are promised the gift of eternal life, but are unbelievers promised the "gift of eternal fire?" Titus 3: saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 thank you, spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 6 minutes ago, Spock said: I searched the word "hell" and did not find a thread so here goes. You know we have heard preachers say "if you don't accept Jesus you will spend eternity burning in Hell." Do you really believe that is biblical, or is it possible God will just extinguish your life after the Great White throne judgment? What purpose does it serve anyhow to burn forever? Anyhow, I know believers are promised the gift of eternal life, but are unbelievers promised the "gift of eternal fire?" Titus 3: saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 thank you, spock What do you believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 We know that at some point in time, hell will be destroyed, or at least thrown into the lake of fire, as written in Revelation 20 (off memory.) If hell is some sort of burning then it will be burned by the lake of fire. But whatever it is, it seems to have an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 10 minutes ago, Kan said: We know that at some point in time, hell will be destroyed, or at least thrown into the lake of fire, as written in Revelation 20 (off memory.) If hell is some sort of burning then it will be burned by the lake of fire. But whatever it is, it seems to have an end. Hell is eternal and irreversible. Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night” Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire” Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, angels4u said: Hell is eternal and irreversible. Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night” Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire” Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire” Which one of those texts says that people burn forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Kan said: Which one of those texts says that people burn forever? 1 minute ago, Kan said: Which one of those texts says that people burn forever? The lake of fire will burn forever~~ Mark 9:43, "And if your hand makes you sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." w 25:46, Jesus said, "These shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into eternal life." He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.” —2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 31 minutes ago, angels4u said: The lake of fire will burn forever~~ Mark 9:43, "And if your hand makes you sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." w 25:46, Jesus said, "These shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into eternal life." He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.” —2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9. These are interesting verses. Mark 9:43 "never be quenched" doesn't quite carry the meaning that it seems to in English. Quench means: quench kwen(t)SH/ verb 1. satisfy (one's thirst) by drinking. 2. extinguish (a fire). "firemen hauled on hoses in a desperate bid to quench the flames" meaning to put out by some external force rather than naturally dying out on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 minute ago, angels4u said: The lake of fire will burn forever~~ Mark 9:43, "And if your hand makes you sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." w 25:46, Jesus said, "These shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into eternal life." He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.” —2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9. Which one of these texts says that people burn forever? If I want to burn off a whole load of rubbish, I make a fire that is not only hot, but one that will never go out until everything is burnt up. The smoke will go up forever, and the flames will be everlasting, so far as the rubbish is concerned. The flames are unquenchable, the smoke goes up forever, but the rubbish is "consumed root and branch" - Satan the root and the branches are his followers. "This is the second death." It does not say this is the second life, nor does it says that Satan and sinners will live forever. The punishment for sin is death, and it is an everlasting punishment, they will never be resurrected. When they first died from disease or battle, they could be raised again, the punishment was not forever. But with an everlasting punishment of death by flames, there is no resurrection and no return, it is everlasting. If the wicked cannot be destroyed, then they cannot die, and if they cannot die, then they can never be punished by death as God said they would be, and there can never be death to the sinner and to sin. "Everlasting life" has never been promised in the scriptures to Satan, his angels or to any unrepentant sinner. But everlasting death is certain. "Everlasting life" only belongs to those who eat of the tree of life in paradise, that's scriptural. Are we supposed to believe that they come to heaven every now and then to eat of the tree of life, so that they can go down and burn longer? The Pagans taught everlasting hell, and Jesus said that it is better to go to heaven with one eye, than to go to hell with both. He used their own superstitions in a parable to illustrate that heaven is really rewarding, but the lesson was that sin is easier to give up than to loose a limb. He was never suggesting that people ought to mutilate themselves or that God had prepared an oven for them, where they are tortured in the most extreme and impossibly painful way. That is not suggested at all, but note that some nations take those words literally - as extremists do, and cut off the limbs or body parts of the supposed guilty. Demonically inspired religions have taken the words of Jesus in His parables and pretend that He supports the pagan doctrine of hell. But His words do not suggest that at all, they teach a lesson of wisdom and love. The word "forever" is conditional to what it applies to. It is a descriptive word of the subject, and not a doctrine on its own. People are married and make a vow of "love forever." An imbalanced religion would say that if you marry, you will never die. ?? "The wages of sin is death." If the wages of sin is an everlasting life, then we have a complete contradiction to this plain statement. The devil has done this by introducing a theory of an immortal life after death, or despite death. So he has said that this aspect of life within humans is everlasting. But we know that life is conditional, and especially eternal life, which is conditional to receiving Christ - the source of all life in the universe. What the devil would like us to believe - and all the world does, that there is life apart from Christ, which there is not under any circumstances whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, Kan said: Which one of these texts says that people burn forever? If I want to burn off a whole load of rubbish, I make a fire that is not only hot, but one that will never go out until everything is burnt up. The smoke will go up forever, and the flames will be everlasting, so far as the rubbish is concerned. The flames are unquenchable, the smoke goes up forever, but the rubbish is "consumed root and branch" - Satan the root and the branches are his followers. "This is the second death." It does not say this is the second life, nor does it says that Satan and sinners will live forever. The punishment for sin is death, and it is an everlasting punishment, they will never be resurrected. When they first died from disease or battle, they could be raised again, the punishment was not forever. But with an everlasting punishment of death by flames, there is no resurrection and no return, it is everlasting. If the wicked cannot be destroyed, then they cannot die, and if they cannot die, then they can never be punished by death as God said they would be, and there can never be death to the sinner and to sin. "Everlasting life" has never been promised in the scriptures to Satan, his angels or to any unrepentant sinner. But everlasting death is certain. "Everlasting life" only belongs to those who eat of the tree of life in paradise, that's scriptural. Are we supposed to believe that they come to heaven every now and then to eat of the tree of life, so that they can go down and burn longer? The Pagans taught everlasting hell, and Jesus said that it is better to go to heaven with one eye, than to go to hell with both. He used their own superstitions in a parable to illustrate that heaven is really rewarding, but the lesson was that sin is easier to give up than to loose a limb. He was never suggesting that people ought to mutilate themselves or that God had prepared an oven for them, where they are tortured in the most extreme and impossibly painful way. That is not suggested at all, but note that some nations take those words literally - as extremists do, and cut off the limbs or body parts of the supposed guilty. Demonically inspired religions have taken the words of Jesus in His parables and pretend that He supports the pagan doctrine of hell. But His words do not suggest that at all, they teach a lesson of wisdom and love. The word "forever" is conditional to what it applies to. It is a descriptive word of the subject, and not a doctrine on its own. People are married and make a vow of "love forever." An imbalanced religion would say that if you marry, you will never die. ?? "The wages of sin is death." If the wages of sin is an everlasting life, then we have a complete contradiction to this plain statement. The devil has done this by introducing a theory of an immortal life after death, or despite death. So he has said that this aspect of life within humans is everlasting. But we know that life is conditional, and especially eternal life, which is conditional to receiving Christ - the source of all life in the universe. What the devil would like us to believe - and all the world does, that there is life apart from Christ, which there is not under any circumstances whatsoever. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Kan if you look it as this verse explains ..the people in hell will live forever and ever.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 11 hours ago, angels4u said: Hell is eternal and irreversible. Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night” Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire” Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire” I agree, the beast, false prophet, and Satan are destined for eternal hell, but I don't think you can go beyond those three based on this verse in Revelation 14 you cited. I think you should make a distinction between "eternal punishment" and "eternal punishing". One more point, I also believe you have to distinguish four words that are often translated hell but are different: 1) Sheol 2) Hades 3) Gehenna 4) Tartarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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