The beast that goes into Perdition

[other one]

Satan entered into him....

[Sister]

Quote

Hello sister

satan himself tempted Eve

satan himself tempted Christ

When satan gets kicked out of Heaven he will be on this earth live and in person,he will not posses anybody

Hello n2thelight

I'm not sure why every one thinks Satan is going to be kicked out of heaven in the future, when it clearly says in this order;

Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Just quickly;  That man child was Jesus.  The woman is not Mary, not Israel, but God's woman, the bride.  Her name is Zion.  She represents Gods doctrine, the true doctrine.  A City where we are invited to dwell spiritually, the City of Truth, Holy Jerusalem. She is not a real woman, but likened to a woman, because Gods teachings produce children.  This same woman first taught Israel, and now everyone is invited to come learn of her and be taught God's ways which are holy and righteous.  Christ was born out of her teachings in the flesh.  He came to teach the Fathers will and give truth.

 

Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Christ was caught up to God in heaven at his resurrection.  That day. He physically left the earth to unite with the Father, came back the same day for 40 days, and now sits on the right hand of the Father.  Christ conquered death, because he proved loyalty to his Father, and this is what is required as an example for us to take part in the resurrection of the saints.  Because of this, the Father has glorified him and given him honour above every name that is named in heaven and on earth.  When Christ conquered death, he cleaned up heaven.  He is the Word of God don't forget, the Word has authority.

Satan who could before Jesus death, travel back and forth from heaven to earth as confirmed in Job. Angels are spirit, their real habitation is heaven.  It's another realm designed for them (spiritual creatures). The earth was just a play ground for Satan and his angels. It was not where they lived, but where they played, and their home was heaven and I imagine it is so wonderful.  Don't picture heaven as a little room, with just a throne, picture it as a large place, a city full of angels.  Plenty of places for Satan to blend in and mingle.  There would be millions and millions of angels there.

  Remember that long rope I mentioned?  God let Satan think he could get away with what he done.  He didn't let on he knew what Satan was up to or else Satan would not have done what he did.  He is blocked from the truth.  Satan would of been very pleased with himself when he caused man to put Christ to death, but when he returned to heaven, when Christ rose from the dead, there was a surprise waiting for him.

 Revelation 12:7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.

This happened AFTER the man child was taken up to God. The resurrection. Now he is judged, cast out, shamed in front of all the angels and demoted.  Now the devil is very wroth, because this world that he turned so ugly, is his new home, and he cannot leave. He is bound here on earth, not the second heaven, or the third heaven, but here with man, not martians, and he didn't get away with what he did.  He is very angry and has gone after the woman's seed (the followers of Christ) since then.   He cannot contaminate heaven's angels anymore, but only man, and if man does not accept this invitation to spiritually dwell in God's city and learn, then the devil will go after him in a different way now, he will be more subtle and he will attack the truth.  He is very clever at this. 

I'm glad this is not my short post!  Sorry, I was moved to share.

 

[Sister]

Quote

Revelation 13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

 

Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

 

The above is satan,not a man possesed

There are only two that are thrown into the lake of fire.

  Revelation 19:20   And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Satan is going to be locked up for a thousand years now.

 

The first beast is that kingdom with 10 kings.  It's an empire.

Revelation 13:2   And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The False prophet arises out of this kingdom, the last kingdom, the 7th one that turns into the 8th.  They work together.  The 10 kings control all the wealth and power, therefore they have all the kings of the earth eating out of their palms.  They control all the media in the West, ...music, hollywood, t.v stations, newspapers, magazines.  They control the world banks, therefore they control all the nations leaders, also have control over their armies, police, hospitals, schools, universities.  They are the major merchants, they have squeezed out the smaller companies.  They are the major Corporations and they play with the world economy like it's putty in their hands.  They are the False Prophets man power.  His army, his back up, his police, and his soldiers.  No one can fight them, they are so powerful because the dragon has given them his seat.  They are grooming the False Prophet for their purposes, a man they will turn into a god, because they have all the technology to decieve, and the means to shape peoples opinions, and this kingdom who all the nations of the world will join to at one stage will be thrown into the lake of fire with the false prophet.

 

[thereselittleflower]

10 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Yes we do go to Ezekiel it proves what I said which was satan has been sentenced to death....

 

Do you know how many names satan goes by,here's a list

 

Here is a list of some of the other names for Satan in the Bible. Satan plays many roles and by knowing them it will give us a better understanding to his method of operation. The Scripture reference is not a complete list of every time these names are used, it is there to give you an example of how it is used in the Bible.

Name	Reference	Definition
Abaddon	Revelation 9:11	a destroying angel
The accuser of our brethren	Revelation 12:10	against one in the assembly, i.e. a complaintant at law; specially, Satan
The adversary	I Peter 5:8	an opponent (in a lawsuit); specially, Satan (as the arch-enemy)
Apollyon	Revelation 9:11	a destroyer (i.e. Satan)
Beelzebub	Matthew 12:24 Mark 3:22 Luke 11:15	dung-god; Beelzebul, a name of Satan
Belial	II Corinthians 6:15	worthlessness; Belial, as an epithet of Satan
the Devil	Matthew 4:1	a traducer; specially, Satan: false accuser, devil, slanderer.
dragon	Revelation 12:9 and 20:2	probably from an alternate form of derkomai (to look); a fabulous kind of serpent (perhaps as supposed to fascinate)
the enemy	Matthew 13:39	from a primary echtho (to hate); hateful (passively, odious, or actively, hostile); usually as a noun, an adversary (especially Satan)
father of all lies	John 8:44	a falsifier
god of this world	II Corinthians 4:4	god is used generically and refers to Satan
king of Babylon	Isaiah 14:4	confusion; Babel (i.e. Babylon), including Babylonia and the Babylonian empire
king of Tyrus	Ezekiel 28:12	a rock; Tsor, a place in Palestine. Satan is the false rock. Christ is the true Rock.
little horn	Daniel 7:8	a horn (as projecting); by implication, a flask, cornet; by resembl. an elephant's tooth (i.e. ivory), a corner (of the altar), a peak (of a mountain), a ray (of light); figuratively, power
Lucifer	Isaiah 14:12	(in the sense of brightness); the morning star: lucifer (the king of Babylon). Satan is the false morning star. Christ is the true morning Star.
man of sin	II Thessalonians 2:3	Satan was the first to sin. See Ezekiel 28:11-19
that old serpent	Revelation 12:9 and 20:2	old = original or primeval serpent = (through the idea of sharpness of vision); a snake, figuratively (as a type of sly cunning) an artful malicious person, especially Satan
power of darkness	Colossians 1:13	"shade" or a shadow (literally or figuratively [darkness of error or an adumbration])
prince of the power of the air	Ephesians 2:2	prince = a first (in rank or power) power = privilege, i.e. (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely, magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence
prince that shall come	Daniel 9:26	a commander (as occupying the front), civil, military or religious; generally (abstractly, plural), honorable themes. See II Thessalonians 2:3-4 and Revelation 12:7-9
prince of Tyrus	Ezekiel 28:2	a rock; Tsor, a place in Palestine. Satan is the false rock. Christ is the true Rock.
prince of this world	John 12:31	prince = a first (in rank or power) world = orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally])
rulers of the darkness of this world	Ephesians 6:12	rulers = a world-ruler, an epithet of Satan darkness = shadiness, i.e. obscurity (literally or figuratively)
Satan	Job 1:6	an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch-enemy of good.
serpent	Genesis 3:1	properly, to hiss, i.e. whisper a (magic) spell; generally, to prognosticate
son of perdition	John 17:12 II Thessalonians 2:3	ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal) also to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively
the tempter	Matthew 4:3	to test (objectively), i.e. endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline
the wicked one	Matthew 13:19	hurtful, i.e. evil (properly, in effect or influence) figuratively, calamitous; also (passively) ill, i.e. diseased; but especially (morally) culpable, i.e. derelict, vicious, facinorous; neuter (singular) mischief, malice, or (plural) guilt; masculine (singular) the devil, or (plural) sinners   Believe what you will..........

 

You list simply includes inappropriate scripture, as we have already seen - several in fact -  I've edited your quote to demonstrate this fact.  Given how many you included that shouldn't have been included, one wonders why you didn't include Peter in the list too since Jesus addressed him as satan.   The ones I  crossed out don't belong for the same reason Jesus calling Peter satan doesn't belong in that list.

 

John 17:13 refers specifically to Judas Iscariot

2 Thess 2:3 refers specifically to  ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos - a man to the exclusion of all other beings, including satan.

 

You asked earlier to look at Ezekiel -  ok let's look at Ezekiel.

Was Ezekiel really writing about satan?   Or was there a real human being God was pronouncing judgment on?

Knowing something about history might help in distinguishing where you have taken scripture and misapplied it such as in regards to the King of Tyre - this was a real, human being Ezekial was speaking about:

 

• Eze 28:12

  Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

• Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
  
  28:1-19 Ethbaal, or Ithobal, was the prince or king of Tyre; and being lifted up with excessive pride, he claimed Divine honours. Pride is peculiarly the sin of our fallen nature. Nor can any wisdom, except that which the Lord gives, lead to happiness in this world or in that which is to come. The haughty prince of Tyre thought he was able to protect his people by his own power, and considered himself as equal to the inhabitants of heaven. If it were possible to dwell in the garden of Eden, or even to enter heaven, no solid happiness could be enjoyed without a humble, holy, and spiritual mind. Especially all spiritual pride is of the devil. Those who indulge therein must expect to perish.

 

• Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
  12. king of Tyrus] The prophet appears to use the terms king and prince (nagîd, or nasî) indifferently. LXX. of Ezek. reserves the term “king” for the rulers of Babylon and Egypt, except in general expressions like “kings of the earth,” or, of the nations (Ezekiel 27:33; Ezekiel 27:35,Ezekiel 32:10).

 

• Pulpit Commentary
  Verse 12. - Thou sealest up the sum, etc. The noun is found only there and in Ezekiel 43:10, where it is translated "pattern," but is cognate with the word rendered" tale" (equivalent to "measure") of Exodus 5:13, and "measure" in Ezekiel 45:11. The probable meaning is, Thou settest the seal to thy completeness (perfection). Thou deemest that thou hast attained the consummation of all beauty and wisdom. The LXX. and the Vulgate give, "Thou art a seal;" and this suggests a parallelism with Jeremiah's works to Coniah (Jeremiah 22:24). The words were, of course, written with a keen irony. This was what the King of Tyro thought of himself.

 

So again, no cigar.  Ezekiel cannot be used to change what Paul said, that the son of perdition, the man of sin, is a human being.   The poetic language used to speak of Ethbaal (Ithobal), a real human being, the real human King of Tyre, was speaking of a real human being as well, and cannot be used in any way to change the fact that Paul also was talking about a real human being, and that Jesus was talking about a real human being, Judas Iscariot.

 

You asked to look at Isaiah.  Ok let's look at Isaiah:

 

• Isaiah 14:4 

  That you shall take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
• Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

  (4) That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.—The prophet appears once more (comp. Isaiah 5:1; Isaiah 12:1) in his character as a psalmist. In the mashal ortaunting-song that follows, the generic meaning of “proverb” is specialised (as in Micah 2:4;Habakkuk 2:6; Deuteronomy 28:37, 1Kings 9:7, and elsewhere) for a derisive utterance in poetic or figurative speech.

  Barnes' Notes on the Bible

  That thou shalt take up - Thou shalt utter, declare, or commence. The word 'take up,' is used in the sense of utter, speak, or declare, in Exodus 20:7; Exodus 23:1; Psalm 15:2.

  This proverb - (המשׁל hamâshâl). Vulgate, 'Parable.' Septuagint Τὸν ρῆνον ton thrēnon - 'Lamentation.' The Hebrew word משׁל mâshâl, usually rendered "proverb," is also rendered "a parable," or "a by-word." It properly denotes "a metaphor, a comparison, a similitude;" and is applied usually to a brief and pungent sentiment or maxim, where wisdom is embodied in few words. In these the ancients abounded. They had few books; and hence arose the necessity of condensing as much as possible the sentiments of wisdom, that they might be easily remembered, and transmitted to future times. These maxims were commonly expressed in figurative language, or by a brief comparison, or short parable, as they are with us. The word also means, figurative discourse generally; and hence, a song or poem Numbers 23:7, Numbers 23:18; Job 27:1; Job 29:1; Psalm 49:5. It is also used to denote a satire, or a song of triumph over enemies Micah 2:4; Hebrews 4:6; Joel 2:17. It is evidently used in this sense here - to denote a taunting speech, a song of triumph over the prostrate king of Babylon. In this beautiful song, there are all the elements of the most pungent satire, and all the beauties of the highest poetry.

  Against the king of Babylon - Over the king of Babylon, or in regard to him. It is not certain that any particular king of Babylon is here intended. If there was, it was probably Belshazzar, in whose reign the city was taken (see the notes at Isaiah 14:22). It may, however, be designed to denote the Babylonian empire - the kingdom that had oppressed the Jews; and thus the king may be referred to as the head of the nation, and as the representative of the whole people.

   

  Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

  That thou shall take up this proverb against the king of Babylon,.... Or "concerning" him, his fall, and the fall of the Babylonish monarchy with him; if we understand this of any particular king of Babylon, it seems best not to interpret it of Nebuchadnezzar, whom Jerom mentions, in whom the empire was in its greatest glory: but of Belshazzar, in whom it ended

   

  Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

  4. this proverb] The Hebrew word (mâshâl) is used in a variety of senses. Originally signifying a similitude, it came naturally to denote a popular proverb or gnomic saying, and finally acquired the sense of a satire or taunt-song, as here (Habakkuk 2:6; Numbers 21:27). In ancient Israel wit seems to have passed into sarcasm as readily as in more recent times. The poem which follows might with equal propriety be described as a dirge (qînah, θρῆνος in LXX.), commencing as it does with the characteristic word ’êkh, and exhibiting the peculiarity of the elegiac measure (the line is broken by a cæsura in such a manner that the second member is shorter than the first. See on ch. Isaiah 1:21). Such ironical elegies are common in the prophets of the exile. Another striking example will meet us in ch. 47

  .. 4b—21. The song of triumph over the king of Babylon is one of the finest specimens of Hebrew poetry which the Old Testament contains. A division into five strophes, each containing seven long lines, is distinctly recognisable, and the occasional deviations from strict symmetry of form are probably due to defects in the text.

   

  Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament

  Babel, like the cities of the Pentapolis, had now become a perpetual desert. "She remains uninhabited for ever, and unoccupied into generation of generations; and not an Arab pitches his tent there, and shepherds do not make their folds there. And there lie beasts of the desert, and horn-owls fill their houses; and ostriches dwell there, and field-devils hop about there. And jackals howl in her castles, and wild dogs in palaces of pleasure; and her time is near to come, and her days will not be prolonged." The conclusion is similar to that of the prophecy against Edom, in Isaiah 34:16-17. There the certainty of the prediction, even in its most minute particulars, is firmly declared; here the nearness of the time of fulfilment. But the fulfilment did not take place so soon as the words of the prophecy might make it appear. According to Herodotus, Cyrus, the leader of the Medo-Persian army, left the city still standing, with its double ring of walls. Darius Hystaspis, who had to conquer Babylon a second time in 518 b.c., had the walls entirely destroyed, with the exception of fifty cubits. Xerxes gave the last thrust to the glory of the temple of Belus. Having been conquered by Seleucus Nicator (312), it declined just in proportion as Seleucia rose. Babylon, says Pliny, ad solitudinem rediit exhausta vicinitate Seleuciae. At the time of Strabo (born 60 b.c.) Babylon was a perfect desert; and he applies to it (16:15) the words of the poet, ἐρημία μεγάλη ̓στὶν ἡ μεγάλη πόλις. Consequently, in the passage before us the prophecy falls under the law of perspective foreshortening. But all that it foretells has been literally fulfilled. The curse that Babylon would never come to be settled in and inhabited again (a poetical expression, like Jeremiah 17:25; Jeremiah 33:16), proved itself an effectual one, when Alexander once thought of making Babylon the metropolis of his empire. He was carried off by an early death. Ten thousand workmen were at that time employed for two months in simply clearing away the rubbish of the foundations of the temple of Belus (the Nimrod-tower). "Not an Arab pitches his tent there" (‛Arâbi, from ‛Arâbâh, a steppe, is used here for the first time in the Old Testament, and then again in Jeremiah 3:2; yăhēl, different from yâhēl in Isaiah 13:10 and Job 31:26, is a syncopated form of יאהל, tentorium figet, according to Ges. 68, Anm. 2, used instead of the customary יאהל): this was simply the natural consequence of the great field of ruins, upon which there was nothing but the most scanty vegetation. But all kinds of beasts of the desert and waste places make their homes there instead.

 

Again, Isaiah is talking about physical realities -  not a fallen angelic being.   Isaiah cannot be used to change what Paul said, that the son of perdition, the man of sin, is a human being.   The poetic language used to speak of the King of Babylon, which refers to real human beings that sat as King of Babylon, to the real earthly, physical kingdom of Bablyon, was speaking of a real human being and kingdom as well, and cannot be used in any way to change the fact that Paul also was talking about a real human being, and that Jesus was talking about a real human being, Judas Iscariot.

Taking what is poetry about human beings and human kingdoms, and forcing them to be about a fallen angelic being can only result in erroneous understandings of scripture.

 

Again, 

n2thelight

As much as you want, you can't change what Paul said in the Greek in 2 Thess 2:3 -   ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos.

As much as you want, you can't change what the Greek word translated "man" ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, means.

As much as you want, you can't make this word "man" ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos,  mean anything other than a human being to the exclusion of all other beings -  including satan.

As much as you want, you can't use other scriptures to make this Greek word,  ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos,  mean anything other than it means -  a human being to the exclusion of all other beings -  including satan.

 

Now be careful, for by trying to force Paul's words here to mean anything other than a human being, you are doing exactly what Peter warned about:

• 15and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness

 

Who is it you have been listening to?

 

 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

You missed a few to cross out on the list....but now that I think about it, I'm glad  you did. Post was probaably about long enough.   

[SINNERSAVED]

to flood the posts with a dictionary doesn't make your answer correct, it takes away from the post ,  but you knew this right ?

[MorningGlory]

On 1/31/2016 at 7:08 AM, Spock said:

Thanks for sharing about your life. I am sorry you were bullied, but being a teacher, I see that ugly side of mankind too.  The works of the FLESH are evident in many unbelievers. I REALLY come down hard on it in my classroom, and I will do the same here if I see it (especially toward you).  Consider me your personal guardian angel. 

In His love,

spock

You're a teacher, Spock?

[MorningGlory]

On 1/31/2016 at 7:57 AM, Last Daze said:

I'm not so sure you can clearly delineate between teaching and discussing.  If a person is willing to engage in the exchange of ideas, if they will clarify and provide the rationale behind what they say, if they are willing to address dissenting ideas, is that not a discussion?  People have different ways of engaging in discussion.  Several people in these forums come across as authoritative, and they may be, but if they're willing to engage in discussion then their style is irrelevant, at least as far as I'm concerned.

I see the "teaching" that is objected to more as a one-way dissemination of information.  Discussion are a two-way exchange.  Do people learn from the discussions on this site?  I have and I'm sure others have as well.  Discussions can teach.

I'm not so sure you can clearly delineate between a person who understands English and one who doesn't.  Whenever I see mountains of obviously pre-prepared text it gets my attention.  I am totally against unqualified teaching and that was behind my question to Sister; I did not accuse her of anything.  So it's a fair question, whether you understand it or not. 

[n2thelight]

9 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

 

You list simply includes inappropriate scripture, as we have already seen - several in fact -  I've edited your quote to demonstrate this fact.  Given how many you included that shouldn't have been included, one wonders why you didn't include Peter in the list too since Jesus addressed him as satan.   The ones I  crossed out don't belong for the same reason Jesus calling Peter satan doesn't belong in that list.

 

John 17:13 refers specifically to Judas Iscariot

2 Thess 2:3 refers specifically to  ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos - a man to the exclusion of all other beings, including satan.

 

You asked earlier to look at Ezekiel -  ok let's look at Ezekiel.

Was Ezekiel really writing about satan?   Or was there a real human being God was pronouncing judgment on?

Knowing something about history might help in distinguishing where you have taken scripture and misapplied it such as in regards to the King of Tyre - this was a real, human being Ezekial was speaking about:

 

• Eze 28:12

  Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

• Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
  
  28:1-19 Ethbaal, or Ithobal, was the prince or king of Tyre; and being lifted up with excessive pride, he claimed Divine honours. Pride is peculiarly the sin of our fallen nature. Nor can any wisdom, except that which the Lord gives, lead to happiness in this world or in that which is to come. The haughty prince of Tyre thought he was able to protect his people by his own power, and considered himself as equal to the inhabitants of heaven. If it were possible to dwell in the garden of Eden, or even to enter heaven, no solid happiness could be enjoyed without a humble, holy, and spiritual mind. Especially all spiritual pride is of the devil. Those who indulge therein must expect to perish.

 

• Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
  12. king of Tyrus] The prophet appears to use the terms king and prince (nagîd, or nasî) indifferently. LXX. of Ezek. reserves the term “king” for the rulers of Babylon and Egypt, except in general expressions like “kings of the earth,” or, of the nations (Ezekiel 27:33; Ezekiel 27:35,Ezekiel 32:10).

 

• Pulpit Commentary
  Verse 12. - Thou sealest up the sum, etc. The noun is found only there and in Ezekiel 43:10, where it is translated "pattern," but is cognate with the word rendered" tale" (equivalent to "measure") of Exodus 5:13, and "measure" in Ezekiel 45:11. The probable meaning is, Thou settest the seal to thy completeness (perfection). Thou deemest that thou hast attained the consummation of all beauty and wisdom. The LXX. and the Vulgate give, "Thou art a seal;" and this suggests a parallelism with Jeremiah's works to Coniah (Jeremiah 22:24). The words were, of course, written with a keen irony. This was what the King of Tyro thought of himself.

 

So again, no cigar.  Ezekiel cannot be used to change what Paul said, that the son of perdition, the man of sin, is a human being.   The poetic language used to speak of Ethbaal (Ithobal), a real human being, the real human King of Tyre, was speaking of a real human being as well, and cannot be used in any way to change the fact that Paul also was talking about a real human being, and that Jesus was talking about a real human being, Judas Iscariot.

 

You asked to look at Isaiah.  Ok let's look at Isaiah:

 

• Isaiah 14:4 

  That you shall take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
• Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

  (4) That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.—The prophet appears once more (comp. Isaiah 5:1; Isaiah 12:1) in his character as a psalmist. In the mashal ortaunting-song that follows, the generic meaning of “proverb” is specialised (as in Micah 2:4;Habakkuk 2:6; Deuteronomy 28:37, 1Kings 9:7, and elsewhere) for a derisive utterance in poetic or figurative speech.

  Barnes' Notes on the Bible

  That thou shalt take up - Thou shalt utter, declare, or commence. The word 'take up,' is used in the sense of utter, speak, or declare, in Exodus 20:7; Exodus 23:1; Psalm 15:2.

  This proverb - (המשׁל hamâshâl). Vulgate, 'Parable.' Septuagint Τὸν ρῆνον ton thrēnon - 'Lamentation.' The Hebrew word משׁל mâshâl, usually rendered "proverb," is also rendered "a parable," or "a by-word." It properly denotes "a metaphor, a comparison, a similitude;" and is applied usually to a brief and pungent sentiment or maxim, where wisdom is embodied in few words. In these the ancients abounded. They had few books; and hence arose the necessity of condensing as much as possible the sentiments of wisdom, that they might be easily remembered, and transmitted to future times. These maxims were commonly expressed in figurative language, or by a brief comparison, or short parable, as they are with us. The word also means, figurative discourse generally; and hence, a song or poem Numbers 23:7, Numbers 23:18; Job 27:1; Job 29:1; Psalm 49:5. It is also used to denote a satire, or a song of triumph over enemies Micah 2:4; Hebrews 4:6; Joel 2:17. It is evidently used in this sense here - to denote a taunting speech, a song of triumph over the prostrate king of Babylon. In this beautiful song, there are all the elements of the most pungent satire, and all the beauties of the highest poetry.

  Against the king of Babylon - Over the king of Babylon, or in regard to him. It is not certain that any particular king of Babylon is here intended. If there was, it was probably Belshazzar, in whose reign the city was taken (see the notes at Isaiah 14:22). It may, however, be designed to denote the Babylonian empire - the kingdom that had oppressed the Jews; and thus the king may be referred to as the head of the nation, and as the representative of the whole people.

   

  Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

  That thou shall take up this proverb against the king of Babylon,.... Or "concerning" him, his fall, and the fall of the Babylonish monarchy with him; if we understand this of any particular king of Babylon, it seems best not to interpret it of Nebuchadnezzar, whom Jerom mentions, in whom the empire was in its greatest glory: but of Belshazzar, in whom it ended

   

  Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

  4. this proverb] The Hebrew word (mâshâl) is used in a variety of senses. Originally signifying a similitude, it came naturally to denote a popular proverb or gnomic saying, and finally acquired the sense of a satire or taunt-song, as here (Habakkuk 2:6; Numbers 21:27). In ancient Israel wit seems to have passed into sarcasm as readily as in more recent times. The poem which follows might with equal propriety be described as a dirge (qînah, θρῆνος in LXX.), commencing as it does with the characteristic word ’êkh, and exhibiting the peculiarity of the elegiac measure (the line is broken by a cæsura in such a manner that the second member is shorter than the first. See on ch. Isaiah 1:21). Such ironical elegies are common in the prophets of the exile. Another striking example will meet us in ch. 47

  .. 4b—21. The song of triumph over the king of Babylon is one of the finest specimens of Hebrew poetry which the Old Testament contains. A division into five strophes, each containing seven long lines, is distinctly recognisable, and the occasional deviations from strict symmetry of form are probably due to defects in the text.

   

  Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament

  Babel, like the cities of the Pentapolis, had now become a perpetual desert. "She remains uninhabited for ever, and unoccupied into generation of generations; and not an Arab pitches his tent there, and shepherds do not make their folds there. And there lie beasts of the desert, and horn-owls fill their houses; and ostriches dwell there, and field-devils hop about there. And jackals howl in her castles, and wild dogs in palaces of pleasure; and her time is near to come, and her days will not be prolonged." The conclusion is similar to that of the prophecy against Edom, in Isaiah 34:16-17. There the certainty of the prediction, even in its most minute particulars, is firmly declared; here the nearness of the time of fulfilment. But the fulfilment did not take place so soon as the words of the prophecy might make it appear. According to Herodotus, Cyrus, the leader of the Medo-Persian army, left the city still standing, with its double ring of walls. Darius Hystaspis, who had to conquer Babylon a second time in 518 b.c., had the walls entirely destroyed, with the exception of fifty cubits. Xerxes gave the last thrust to the glory of the temple of Belus. Having been conquered by Seleucus Nicator (312), it declined just in proportion as Seleucia rose. Babylon, says Pliny, ad solitudinem rediit exhausta vicinitate Seleuciae. At the time of Strabo (born 60 b.c.) Babylon was a perfect desert; and he applies to it (16:15) the words of the poet, ἐρημία μεγάλη ̓στὶν ἡ μεγάλη πόλις. Consequently, in the passage before us the prophecy falls under the law of perspective foreshortening. But all that it foretells has been literally fulfilled. The curse that Babylon would never come to be settled in and inhabited again (a poetical expression, like Jeremiah 17:25; Jeremiah 33:16), proved itself an effectual one, when Alexander once thought of making Babylon the metropolis of his empire. He was carried off by an early death. Ten thousand workmen were at that time employed for two months in simply clearing away the rubbish of the foundations of the temple of Belus (the Nimrod-tower). "Not an Arab pitches his tent there" (‛Arâbi, from ‛Arâbâh, a steppe, is used here for the first time in the Old Testament, and then again in Jeremiah 3:2; yăhēl, different from yâhēl in Isaiah 13:10 and Job 31:26, is a syncopated form of יאהל, tentorium figet, according to Ges. 68, Anm. 2, used instead of the customary יאהל): this was simply the natural consequence of the great field of ruins, upon which there was nothing but the most scanty vegetation. But all kinds of beasts of the desert and waste places make their homes there instead.

 

Again, Isaiah is talking about physical realities -  not a fallen angelic being.   Isaiah cannot be used to change what Paul said, that the son of perdition, the man of sin, is a human being.   The poetic language used to speak of the King of Babylon, which refers to real human beings that sat as King of Babylon, to the real earthly, physical kingdom of Bablyon, was speaking of a real human being and kingdom as well, and cannot be used in any way to change the fact that Paul also was talking about a real human being, and that Jesus was talking about a real human being, Judas Iscariot.

Taking what is poetry about human beings and human kingdoms, and forcing them to be about a fallen angelic being can only result in erroneous understandings of scripture.

 

Again,

n2thelight

As much as you want, you can't change what Paul said in the Greek in 2 Thess 2:3 -   ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos.

As much as you want, you can't change what the Greek word translated "man" ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, means.

As much as you want, you can't make this word "man" ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos,  mean anything other than a human being to the exclusion of all other beings -  including satan.

As much as you want, you can't use other scriptures to make this Greek word,  ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos,  mean anything other than it means -  a human being to the exclusion of all other beings -  including satan.

 

Now be careful, for by trying to force Paul's words here to mean anything other than a human being, you are doing exactly what Peter warned about:

• 15and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness

 

Who is it you have been listening to?

 

 

 

 

 

Gonna just say this

The whole purpose of the trib is deception.There is no way in the world satan can pretend to be Christ by posession....He(satan)is a supernatural being who will perform super natural acts in the sight of man.....

 

The reality is satan walked amongst the garden of God,he was the covering cherum,no MAN has ever done that,so we know for a fact that Isaiah is refering to none other than satan himself....

 

The king of Tyre is satan,it can be no other

[n2thelight]

Are these angels in the below not called men?

 

Genesis 19:1 "And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground."

 

Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, "Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."

Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof."