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The whole of the NT explains how salvation is obtained

ZacharyB

By ZacharyB
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ZacharyB

ZacharyB

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Posted

 

Scripture explains how man attains salvation, and it also

reconciles all of the supposed contradictions concerning salvation …

 

First, all humans are born with an inherited sin nature (a “fallen” nature),

e.g. Jesus actually told His disciples that they were “evil”.

The normal human being is incapable of believing the gospel (good news)

of Jesus Christ because the Truth of it is hidden from him … man is:

spiritually blind and deaf, spiritually dead, a slave to sin, forced to obey evil,

a captive to the law of sin and death, unable to be saved through good works,

deceived and blinded by Satan, a captive of Satan unto death, etc.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is “foolishness” to all those perishing (going to hell).

They do not choose this, but are just incapable of believing the foolish gospel.

 

God’s grace (unmerited favor) toward the mass of fallen humanity is 3-fold:

• that ANY human could ever be received into heaven by a most Holy God

• that SOME humans are given the ability to believe the saving gospel

• that sincere repentance can usually result in the forgiveness of sins

 

God must give a seed of faith to man to enable him to believe the foolish gospel.

This is not a one-time event, but the Greek tense indicates a continuing belief.

That only some are chosen is consistent with God’s preference, for example:

“I dwell in the high and holy place with him who has a contrite and humble spirit”.

The question is: How-when-why did certain people obtain this type of spirit?

 

(*A*) Along with truly believing the saving Truth of the gospel with his heart,

man receives the Holy Spirit within, and is born-again with a new nature.

After receiving this free gift (a revelation of the Truth), the believer will begin

to be taught deeper spiritual Truths by the precious Holy Spirit who dwells within.

Man is no longer a slave to sin; he no longer has to sin; he can choose not to sin.

He can present himself as a slave of obedience unto righteousness for holiness,

or he can choose to present himself as a slave of sin unto eternal death.

 

One critical spiritual Truth is that disobedience to God is actually proof of unbelief.

In the OT, the Israelites did not enter God’s rest because of disobedience (unbelief).

God left them scattered all over the desert floor; and this was a warning for everyone!

Born-again believers have much less of an excuse for failure … see (*A*) above.

So, here Scripture gives another negative response to the question of

whether or not easy-believism and easy-grace are enough for salvation.

 

The main reason for God giving man free will is to test his love, faithfulness,

obedience, etc. to God his Creator. Yes, Jesus became the author of eternal

salvation to all who obey Him … and this obedience does not refer to believing

in Him and His gospel after having received the precious free gift of saving faith.

No, Jesus said that if you love Him (for His sacrifice, etc.), you will obey Him.

The practicing of righteousness is proof that one stands righteous before God.

 

After receiving the saving Truth, the believer can always make the disastrous

free-will choice of not continuing on with his faith. Many Scripture passages

warn that enduring in the faith until death is absolutely necessary for salvation.

You must not fall away from the faith when the terrible persecution of Christians

comes upon you, and you must not take the mark of the beast of the antichrist.

 

It’s all about unbelief … and the NT describes exactly what unbelief is.

An evil heart of unbelief is displayed by one who departs from the faith, and

this is often connected to one having been hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

 

After receiving the saving Truth, the believer can always make the free-will choice

to be disobedient and return to his/her old lifestyle of habitual unrepentant sinning.

Several lists of sins, which many people (including believers) commit habitually,

apply to absolutely everyone with regard to being disqualified from entering

the kingdom of God/heaven (which is somewhat analogous to heaven itself).

 

If you wish to see Scriptures for any of the points above, please just ask.

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It is what we believe, not how we behave, that qualifies us for Salvation. Once a person is sincerely saved, they cannot lose their salvation as it is guaranteed by GOD through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the Believer's heart. Scripture tells us that no one can remove us from the hand of Christ, not even ourselves as that is what "no one" means. When Scripture speaks of those that hear the Truth and receive it, it is an intellectual hearing and receiving, and not a spiritual one. They can therefore subsequently walk away, but they never really believed in the first place.

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thereselittleflower

thereselittleflower

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Posted
3 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

It is what we believe, not how we behave, that qualifies us for Salvation. Once a person is sincerely saved, they cannot lose their salvation as it is guaranteed by GOD through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the Believer's heart. Scripture tells us that no one can remove us from the hand of Christ, not even ourselves as that is what "no one" means. When Scripture speaks of those that hear the Truth and receive it, it is an intellectual hearing and receiving, and not a spiritual one. They can therefore subsequently walk away, but they never really believed in the first place.

That is actually debated within protestantism.

And "no one" in your reference refers to an outside power exerting force on us, not ourselves.   This is about something done to us, not done to ourselves.

  • Jhn 10:28

    And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The controlling word is tranlated "snatch" "pluck"

  • ἁρπάζω harpázō, har-pad'-zo; from a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications):—catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

 

 

 

 

 

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simplejeff

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Posted
4 hours ago, ZacharyB said:

No, Jesus said that if you love Him (for His sacrifice, etc.), you will obey Him.

Perhaps for Comparison:  Why did elijah, elisha, daniel, shadrack, meshack, abednego, king david, abigail, joshua, esther, ruth, hezekiah, the prophet who went to nineveh,  malachi, yochanan the immerser,  paul, peter, john, james, the  other disciples who stayed with  Yeshua obey Him...  and of course the father of faith: abraham; and moses...  ((hmmmm. why did the ones who left, leave ((refuse to obey)) ? )), 

i.e. OT and NT BEFORE His Sacrifice/ The Crucifixion/ , WHY did they obey Him ? ((included in the "etc.".... ))

'tis WONDERFUL ! To FIND OUT THESE THINGS as GOD PERMITS...... !!!!!! 

footnote: notice in Scripture most of the time, and in ancient Hebrew Life, "why" is seldom a question or given or answered.   'who' did it, or will do it; 'what' did they do or will they do'; 'what' happens if/when they do it:what is the blessing or the penalty: example"whoever believes AND is immersed shall be saved; whoever believes not... "https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Mark%2016:16 ((many versions))

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=trusts+and+is+immersed&qs_version=CJB

Mark 16:16

Whoever trusts and is immersed will be saved; whoever does not trust will be condemned.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

Copyright © 1998 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved.

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thereselittleflower

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Posted

 

 

3 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Perhaps for Comparison:  Why did elijah, elisha, daniel, shadrack, meshack, abednego, king david, abigail, joshua, esther, ruth, hezekiah, the prophet who went to nineveh,  malachi, yochanan the immerser,  paul, peter, john, james, the  other disciples who stayed with  Yeshua obey Him...  and of course the father of faith: abraham; and moses...  ((hmmmm. why did the ones who left, leave ((refuse to obey)) ? )), 

i.e. OT and NT BEFORE His Sacrifice/ The Crucifixion/ , WHY did they obey Him ? ((included in the "etc.".... ))

'tis WONDERFUL ! To FIND OUT THESE THINGS as GOD PERMITS...... !!!!!! 

footnote: notice in Scripture most of the time, and in ancient Hebrew Life, "why" is seldom a question or given or answered.   'who' did it, or will do it; 'what' did they do or will they do'; 'what' happens if/when they do it:what is the blessing or the penalty: example"whoever believes AND is immersed shall be saved; whoever believes not... "https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Mark%2016:16 ((many versions))

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=trusts+and+is+immersed&qs_version=CJB

Mark 16:16

Whoever trusts and is immersed will be saved; whoever does not trust will be condemned.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

Copyright © 1998 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved.

That is not what that verse says.

It wasn't written in Hebrew.

It was written in Greek.

It does not say  "trusts" and "immersed"

It says "believers" and is "baptized"

here are numerous translations and they all use the exact same words   "Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved.  Whoever does not believe will be condemned."

  • New International Version
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    New Living Translation
    Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.

    English Standard Version
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Berean Study Bible
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Berean Literal Bible
    The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned.

    New American Standard Bible 
    "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

    King James Bible
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    International Standard Version
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever doesn't believe will be condemned. 

    NET Bible
    The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    “Whoever believes and is baptized has life, and whoever does not believe is condemned.”

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    New American Standard 1977 
    “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believes not shall be condemned.

    King James 2000 Bible
    He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be condemned.

    American King James Version
    He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.

    American Standard Version
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned. 

    Darby Bible Translation
    He that believes and is baptised shall be saved, and he that disbelieves shall be condemned.

    English Revised Version
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Weymouth New Testament
    He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who disbelieves will be condemned.

    World English Bible
    He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who disbelieves will be condemned.

    Young's Literal Translation
    he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; and he who hath not believed, shall be condemned.

 

As we have seen from previous discussions, the Didache, The Teaching of the 12 Apostles, written in the mid 1st century, in the same time frame as the New Testament scriptures, and accepted by Christiandom in the 1st century and beyond as authoritative, tells of the various ways Baptism could be administered, which was not restricted to immersion only.

The artificial restricting of "baptism" to "immersion" in this translation you presented is just that - artificial and done to promote his bias towards a particular theology rather than presenting the words as they were actually written.   This makes it a corrupted translation.

Here is another example:

  • Romans 10:4:

    CJB: For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts.

 

The Greek does not use the word Torah, neither does it use "trust."

It uses "law" and "believes"

"law"

  • νόμος nómos, nom'-os; from a primary νέμω némō (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), genitive case (regulation), specially, (of Moses (including the volume); also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle):—law.

"believes"

  • πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

Other translations:

 

"Believes" means a great deal more than "trust." 

his choice of words for translation are problematic because they are chosen not with proper translation in mind, but with a doctrinal bias, one of which is OSAS which is disputed in protestantism let alone all of christianity, and rejected by most.

This is not how one makes a proper translation of scriptures.

The translation you have presented has changed the scriptures, artificially restricting the Greek words used, to promote limitations not contained in the scriptures or held by the first Christians.

People should know, especially those weak in their faith, the problems that exist with one-off translations bent on promoting a bias rather than an true translation of the original languages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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simplejeff

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Posted

Rather, it is well known that the enemy of Christ changed things a lot longer ago,  and made it part of the many heretical teachings still taught from rome.

Immersion remains the better choice  - including a lot more than we  can go into here, plus no need to.

Gospel of Salvation vs Gospel of the Kingdom

Bible2 replied to firestormx's topic in Doctrinal Questions

...if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial)baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13). 
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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 3:14 PM, simplejeff said:

Rather, it is well known that the enemy of Christ changed things a lot longer ago,  and made it part of the many heretical teachings still taught from rome.

Immersion remains the better choice  - including a lot more than we  can go into here, plus no need to.

Gospel of Salvation vs Gospel of the Kingdom

Bible2 replied to firestormx's topic in Doctrinal Questions

...if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial)baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13). 

 

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 2:49 PM, thereselittleflower said:

 

 

That is not what that verse says.

It wasn't written in Hebrew.

It was written in Greek.

It does not say  "trusts" and "immersed"

It says "believers" and is "baptized"

here are numerous translations and they all use the exact same words   "Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved.  Whoever does not believe will be condemned."

  • New International Version
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    New Living Translation
    Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.

    English Standard Version
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Berean Study Bible
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Berean Literal Bible
    The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned.

    New American Standard Bible 
    "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

    King James Bible
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    International Standard Version
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever doesn't believe will be condemned. 

    NET Bible
    The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    “Whoever believes and is baptized has life, and whoever does not believe is condemned.”

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    New American Standard 1977 
    “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believes not shall be condemned.

    King James 2000 Bible
    He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be condemned.

    American King James Version
    He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.

    American Standard Version
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned. 

    Darby Bible Translation
    He that believes and is baptised shall be saved, and he that disbelieves shall be condemned.

    English Revised Version
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Weymouth New Testament
    He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who disbelieves will be condemned.

    World English Bible
    He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who disbelieves will be condemned.

    Young's Literal Translation
    he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; and he who hath not believed, shall be condemned.

 

As we have seen from previous discussions, the Didache, The Teaching of the 12 Apostles, written in the mid 1st century, in the same time frame as the New Testament scriptures, and accepted by Christiandom in the 1st century and beyond as authoritative, tells of the various ways Baptism could be administered, which was not restricted to immersion only.

The artificial restricting of "baptism" to "immersion" in this translation you presented is just that - artificial and done to promote his bias towards a particular theology rather than presenting the words as they were actually written.   This makes it a corrupted translation.

Here is another example:

  • Romans 10:4:

    CJB: For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts.

 

The Greek does not use the word Torah, neither does it use "trust."

It uses "law" and "believes"

"law"

  • νόμος nómos, nom'-os; from a primary νέμω némō (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), genitive case (regulation), specially, (of Moses (including the volume); also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle):—law.

"believes"

  • πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

Other translations:

 

"Believes" means a great deal more than "trust." 

his choice of words for translation are problematic because they are chosen not with proper translation in mind, but with a doctrinal bias, one of which is OSAS which is disputed in protestantism let alone all of christianity, and rejected by most.

This is not how one makes a proper translation of scriptures.

The translation you have presented has changed the scriptures, artificially restricting the Greek words used, to promote limitations not contained in the scriptures or held by the first Christians.

People should know, especially those weak in their faith, the problems that exist with one-off translations bent on promoting a bias rather than an true translation of the original languages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                    I believe what you say is true. I have both his bible and his commentary to go along with it.

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Willa

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Mark 16:16 AMP.  He who believes--[that is] who adheres to and trusts in and relies on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth--and is baptized will be saved.

Vine pisteuo = to believe, also to be persuaded of, and hence to put confidence in, to trust signifies in this sense of the word, reliance upon not mere credence.

Vine  baptizo = to baptize, primararily a frequentative form of bapto, to dip, was used among the Greeks to signify the dyeing of a garment, or the drawing of water by dipping a vessel into another.  Plutarchus uses it of the drawing of wine by dipping a the cup into the bowl.  ---It is the rite performed by John the Baptist who called upon the people to repent that they might receive the remission of sins.  ---Distinct from this is the baptism enjoined by Christ Matt 28:19, a Baptism to be undergone by believers, thus witnessing to their identification with Him in death, burial and resurrection.  Baptizing them in the Name (Acts 8:16) would indicate that the baptized persons was closely bound to or became the property of, the one into whose Name he was baptized.

The Didache, on baptism:  7:1 Concerning baptism, you should baptize this way: After first explaining all things, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in flowing water.
7:2 But if you have no running water, baptize in other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, then in warm.
7:3 If you have very little, pour water three times on the head in the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

I don't believe the Didache negates immersion, but places it as the first choice.  Flowing water would be like a river, since John the Baptist baptized Jesus in the Jorden River.  Matt. 2:13, 16-- He went up at once out of the water.  Up and out describe immersion.

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Romans 6:23  For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.   Romans 5:15  But the free gift is not like the offense-- much more the grace of God and the gift by one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that of of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.  For we are His workmanship , created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

John 3:16  But God so loved the world, that whoever believes in Him might not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Peter 3:9b but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

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