Last Daze Posted February 2, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2016 The mark and the image are always mentioned together. Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand," Revelation 14:9 and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; Revelation 20:4b They are also together when they are introduced at the end of Revelation 13, and there are other passages that mention them both together as well. It's safe to say that they are closely related if not inseparably so. We also know enough about them that those who accept them are the objects of God's wrath, so it would be worth taking a look at what they are: the mark - something uniquely identified as belonging to the false prophet, either his name or the number of his name. It will required to conduct financial transactions and is located either on the right hand or forehead. the image - something that people will be required to worship or they will be put to death. Worship is lifestyle behavior and people will be required to live in accordance with what the image requires. When looked at together, receiving the mark is a one-time event that aligns a person with the false prophet and worshipping the image is the ongoing lifestyle behavior that the image requires. It is essentially an aggressive way for the false prophet to ferret out dissenters and keep people in line. It is how he makes war on the saints, the great tribulation. Believers are called on to persevere through this time and reject the mark and the image regardless of the consequences. Many do and are martyred as a consequence. After the great tribulation, when everyone has had an opportunity to respond to the "worship or die" ultimatum, the seven plagues are brought to bear on those who sided with the false prophet by taking his mark and worshipping the image. The question is, can those who sided with the false prophet realize because of the plagues that they made a mistake and repent? Can they cease to worship the image and be forgiven? I think it's possible. I've always been told that taking the mark seals one's fate but I don't find any support for that. Those who do may not be counted among those who persevered by rejected the mark and the image but I still think they can yield to God's judgment of the first four trumpets and repent. I realize that at some point in the plagues that people's hearts harden to the point of no repentance but that isn't until after the first four trumpets. If you disagree and you think people can not repent after receiving the mark and worshipping the image then please explain why based on scripture. "Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?" Ezekiel 18:23 The 144,000 are mentioned just before, and are protected from, the seven plagues for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted February 2, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2016 Hi Last Daze Good post. Those who have received the Mark of the Beast cannot turn back. The spirit of God will not be poured out during the wrath and it's this spirit that leads one to repentance. Being sorry for something when you realise too late at this particular time is not going to bring salvation. Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: God's Word has spoken. Revelation 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. This is the harvest. This is what separates those who worship in spirit and in truth from those who don't. The tares from the wheat. That same kingdom the "sorry ones" joined to, is that same kingdom that kills the saints. They have to go through the plagues, there is no turning back. They are guilty of innocent blood also now. Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: The tares chose Babylon over Christ. They chose the material over the spiritual. It's too late. They did not come out of Babylon when warned. I can't see forgiveness here during this time. Maybe when Christ returns during the millennium, they can be taught and go through the whole process of learning again, but not before. They cannot enter the kingdom of God at the Coming. They are put there in Babylon for a reason. These that are there are guilty of persecuting the saints also. This is God's revenge on all the ungodly, who have committed ungodly crimes, all the hypocrites also will be thrown into Babylon. Those who did not love the truth. There are so called Christians also who do not love the truth. For the sake of the good, they have to be dealt with harshly. I cannot find one scripture saying that there will be forgiveness during this time, but many scriptures pointing to the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted February 2, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2016 I won't say anything other than this: 9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Why do people want to find answers to questions that are already answered? That is what happens when you take scripture out of context and try and run with it. The whole scripture, in context, (as already pointed out) reads: "A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” (Rev. 14:9-11) It does not say unless they repent. So, if we believe what the Bible says, no, if you do these things, you will perish! As for Revelation 20:4 "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years." These are the ones who did not do what they were warned not to do. Ezekiel 18 is talking about sins of the fathers vs sins of the sons and has no relation to the other scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3, 2016 12 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said: Why do people want to find answers to questions that are already answered? That is what happens when you take scripture out of context and try and run with it. The whole scripture, in context, (as already pointed out) reads: "A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” (Rev. 14:9-11) It does not say unless they repent. So, if we believe what the Bible says, no, if you do these things, you will perish! As for Revelation 20:4 "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years." These are the ones who did not do what they were warned not to do. Ezekiel 18 is talking about sins of the fathers vs sins of the sons and has no relation to the other scriptures. I see a lot of people wanting to give Scripture their own meaning. That is dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thallasa Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 8 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said: Why do people want to find answers to questions that are already answered? That is what happens when you take scripture out of context and try and run with it. The whole scripture, in context, (as already pointed out) reads: "A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” (Rev. 14:9-11) It does not say unless they repent. So, if we believe what the Bible says, no, if you do these things, you will perish! As for Revelation 20:4 "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years." These are the ones who did not do what they were warned not to do. Ezekiel 18 is talking about sins of the fathers vs sins of the sons and has no relation to the other scriptures. Yes ,I now believe that there are things so terrible which most of us everyday sinners that we are, could not ever have imagined , things which are such, that they can not be covered by repentance . They are no longer, some of them ,no longer in any way recogniseable as God's creation - they are too degraded . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted February 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Spock said: I won't say anything other than this: 9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. Correct; once the mark is taken, it's over for the unrighteous. And you just posted verification of an eternal hell. Btw, can you please name chapter and verse when you post Scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted February 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,111 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,550 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted February 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Last Daze said: When looked at together, receiving the mark is a one-time event that aligns a person with the false prophet and worshipping the image is the ongoing lifestyle behavior that the image requires. It is essentially an aggressive way for the false prophet to ferret out dissenters and keep people in line. It is how he makes war on the saints, the great tribulation. You have provided no evidence that the the Trib takes place during the time of the Beast. And I don't believe there is any such evidence. Please show it if you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted February 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Last Daze said: When looked at together, receiving the mark is a one-time event that aligns a person with the false prophet and worshipping the image is the ongoing lifestyle behavior that the image requires. It is essentially an aggressive way for the false prophet to ferret out dissenters and keep people in line. It is how he makes war on the saints, the great tribulation. You keep mentioning the False Prophet as though the Beast does not exist. And yet this is the Mark of the Beast. So unless you include the Beast in your discussion about the mark, it means nothing. And since all who refuse to take the mark are beheaded, and the entire Church is certainly NOT beheaded, we need to be clear that it is the Tribulation Saints who refuse to take the mark. Which also means that the Church per se does not go through the Tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted February 3, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3, 2016 30 minutes ago, Ezra said: You keep mentioning the False Prophet as though the Beast does not exist. And yet this is the Mark of the Beast. So unless you include the Beast in your discussion about the mark, it means nothing. And since all who refuse to take the mark are beheaded, and the entire Church is certainly NOT beheaded, we need to be clear that it is the Tribulation Saints who refuse to take the mark. Which also means that the Church per se does not go through the Tribulation. prove that the church does not go through tribulation, then you will say that this verse is not true , are we following scripture or others of false teaching, jesus said in matthew that you will have tribulation, ? Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. then is all this not to be believed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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