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The Mark and the Image


Last Daze

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13 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You have provided no evidence that the the Trib takes place during the time of the Beast. And I don't believe there is any such evidence. Please show it if you have it.

I've explained it before.  Not willing to delve into here, maybe in a different thread.  It's not terribly important to this one.

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9 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Look for where it is written something like this:  the whole world REFUSES TO REPENT OF WORSHIPING (serving) demons.

They HAVE NOT EVEN ONE THOUGHT OF TURNING TO YAHWEH.  Instead, THEY CURSE HIM.

So, no, every WORD of Yahweh is True - once anyone receives the mark, whatever it is , they can never find repentance.  Not ever.

When in the progression of the plagues is it first said that people refuse to repent?

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excessive plagues ? 

have you read the old testament, as Yahweh Breathed All Scripture for our benefit, training, example, help, hope and standard. 

how many thousands, and tens of thousands, of His Own Chosen people, Yahweh afflicted with plague....

how much more today, and/or in the future, Yahweh, in His Perfect Righteousness and Spotless Judgment afflicts millions - or perhaps rather they are afflicted because there trust is in manflesh/mankind+demons ..... as written in Revelation 

yes already today, yes already for many years, mankind is willingly rejecting Messiah Yeshua and Scripture.

((just ended this as you posted "When in the progression....." ))

In detailed reference to the plagues, wait on the Messiah Yeshua, but realize that TODAY people have already for a long time been serving demons and refusing to repent.....  perhaps some will yet repent, but many are adamant and vocal that they won't ... ... ...

17 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I agree that the plagues are for those who take the mark and worship the image.  That much is clear.  But If the plagues are for after everyone has made a decision one way or the other, for the false prophet or against him, and if there is no repentance from that decision, what is the purpose of the plagues?  If everyone's fate is sealed what do the plagues accomplish?  I can understand that ultimately vengeance will be taken but for two to three years?  That seems a little excessive unless I've overstated the duration of the plagues.

 

 

 

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Maybe it would help if I elaborate on what I see as "worship the image".  I don't see worshipping the image as a one-time act but an ongoing lifestyle, obedience to a code of conduct.  The expression "whoever receives the mark and worships the image" to me means the same thing as "whoever receives the mark and continues in a life of obedience to the false prophet".

Consequently, I see the plagues being brought to bear on "those who receive the mark and continue in willful obedience to the false prophet".  Isn't obedience worship?  Can't people discontinue their willful obedience?

It's that, and the nature of the plagues, and God's desire that people repent, combined with the 144.000, that have me questioning the "sealed fate" view.

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Obedience may be worship and may not be.  We obey the civil and criminal laws.... 

"Serve" and worship might be the same word in the original:  it fits as in "serves demons".... doing what they say... even without knowing it..

Not everyone's fate is sealed TODAY. (possibly).

"TODAY, harden not your hearts" is still God's MESSAGE of hope and salvation still available...

but one day soon, as it is written in Revelation, 

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these ...

biblehub.com/revelation/9-20.htm
 
But the people who did not die in these plagues still refused to repent of their evil ... They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, ..
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22 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Obedience may be worship and may not be.  We obey the civil and criminal laws.... 

"Serve" and worship might be the same word in the original:  it fits as in "serves demons".... doing what they say... even without knowing it..

Not everyone's fate is sealed TODAY. (possibly).

"TODAY, harden not your hearts" is still God's MESSAGE of hope and salvation still available...

but one day soon, as it is written in Revelation, 

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these ...

biblehub.com/revelation/9-20.htm
 
But the people who did not die in these plagues still refused to repent of their evil ... They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, ..

Again, when in the progression of the seven plagues is it said that people refuse to repent?  I agree that at some point people's hearts become hardened to the point of not repenting.  When is that point?  And why is it said then ?  You can't just cram all the plagues into one big can of yucky and kick it down the road.

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47 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Maybe it would help if I elaborate on what I see as "worship the image".  I don't see worshipping the image as a one-time act but an ongoing lifestyle, obedience to a code of conduct.  The expression "whoever receives the mark and worships the image" to me means the same thing as "whoever receives the mark and continues in a life of obedience to the false prophet".

Consequently, I see the plagues being brought to bear on "those who receive the mark and continue in willful obedience to the false prophet".  Isn't obedience worship?  Can't people discontinue their willful obedience?

It's that, and the nature of the plagues, and God's desire that people repent, combined with the 144.000, that have me questioning the "sealed fate" view.

Hello  LAST DAZE, we have in the bible the ways of the lord, for those that call upon his name and have faith and believe will be saved, those that take a mark at a given time or place of the beast is sealed by the beast and is not of God anymore,

you cannot serve two masters, for there will be one chosen over the other, now as we get into the times of testing and the times to make decisions, like today and yesterday we see that the times is at hand, God wants all to come to the repentance and to Him, but many will turn and reject, if it be now in there harden hearts by there mind, or by force when the beast demands or the system demands it is going to be for or against, if we chose to take the mark its Game over, if we are set in our minds today that we don't need God and reject him and get hit by a bus on the way home, then Game over,

 for it is the will of the mind and soul that will save or destroy us, for God will use the measure for which we have acted or chosen to judge us, so we are the ones that will save or condemned  our selves , before God, and He will judge and sentence according to what master we chose to serve, for if we reject Him , He will reject us, if we receive him, ,he will save us,

there is no question, but those that do choose God must turn from their ways , completely in faith and of there all too him, we cannot just be saved by our lips, but what is in our heart and mind, we surrender , and we seek God with all that we are , this is what we are called to do ,

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Who cares ? Who can know ? TODAY, what difference does it make ?  

It happens just as it is written, and men keep screwing up everything every day.

15 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Again, when in the progression of the seven plagues is it said that people refuse to repent?  I agree that at some point people's hearts become hardened to the point of not repenting.  When is that point?  And why is it said then ?  You can't just cram all the plagues into one big can of yucky and kick it down the road.

Who REFUSED TO REPENT in the NT, when they were seeing and hearing Jesus?  There's multitudes TODAY refusing to repent, who will never repent.  And some who might repent.  Many reading forums daily.

AMP

But the Pharisees and the lawyers [who were experts in the Mosaic Law] annulled and set aside God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.

AMPC

But the Pharisees and the lawyers [of the Mosaic Law] annulled and rejected and brought to nothing God’s purpose concerning themselves, by [refusing and] not being baptized by him [John].

BRG

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

CEB

But the Pharisees and legal experts rejected God’s will for themselves because they hadn’t been baptized by John.

CJB

but the P’rushim and the Torah-teachers, by not letting themselves be immersed by him, nullified for themselves God’s plan.

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%207%3A30

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1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

Who cares ? Who can know ? TODAY, what difference does it make ?  

It happens just as it is written, and men keep screwing up everything every day.

 

sorrows and woe to those, woe to those, for they have rejected and made Jesus powerless, and to non effect, they did not want to believe and love God, '

God said woe to the inhabitants of the earth , for judgment has come, and those that are not under the blood of Jesus will fall, they will be caught and not be able to escape, like those that are stung like  a scorpion and wish they could die but cannot, for this is the judgment that those that we reject the power of God will fall at the hand of God through all that is to come for the destruction and cleansing of man

this is what we are told that our God is above all , and no one can run and no one can hide, for they will be in the caves of the mountains and say rocks fall on me, and hide me from , the God most high for we have Sinned and rejected and now our time has come to face the payments of our actions, this is all coming, we have been warned , and God has given us the prophets and apostles and His son to die on the cross,

for man through the power of wickedness and sinful nature, have rebelled and killed all that God has sent to give His word, and now its time that the lord will descend from heaven above with His angels and will wipe out and conquer the evil and the transgressions  and put away the death and sin forever, woe to them that reject the almighty and powerful God that we Serve for He shall dominate and have victory , as it was written let it be said ..amen

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the mark and the image might be some 'event' yet to come... and might be already here.  Only those with the seal of Yahweh are free from it, and won't necessarily 'know' what it is , per se, being simple minded, single eye upon Jesus, not attached to the world, not of the world while yet in the world.

It might be already powerful, in charge, controlling, in the lives of those who oppose Scripture here;  and in the towns  or cities or countries we who have the Son live in....  there is wickedness everywhere , and increasing daily.... and some TURNING TO GOD, starting to TRUST GOD instead of men....

18 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

sorrows and woe to those, woe to those, for they have rejected and made Jesus powerless, and to non effect, they did not want to believe and love God, '

God said woe to the inhabitants of the earth , for judgment has come, and those that are not under the blood of Jesus will fall, they will be caught and not be able to escape, like those that are stung like  a scorpion and wish they could die but cannot, for this is the judgment that those that who reject the power of God will fall at the hand of God through all that is to come for the destruction and cleansing of man

.........for man through the power of wickedness and sinful nature, have rebelled and killed all that God has sent to give His word, and now its time that the lord will descend from heaven above with His angels and will wipe out and conquer the evil and the transgressions  and put away the death and sin forever, woe to them that reject the almighty and powerful God that we Serve for He shall dominate and have victory , as it was written let it be said ..amen

 

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