Lent 101

[thereselittleflower]

58 minutes ago, Willa said:

We should be practicing lent all year long.  We should be doing the things befitting repentance such as making right the wrongs we have done, repaying what we have stolen, confessing if we have lied and always making restitution.  We should be remembering our Savior's death on our behalf and His conquering death and the power of satan by arising and ascending into heaven where He prays for us.  We should not place anyone or thing, entertainment or creature comfort as more important than our God.  

If Lent helps some people get back on track then by all means do so.  If it is meaningful to you, do it.  But some treat every day as the Lord's day and make Lent a lifestyle.  We prefer to stay nestled close to God and to live a lifestyle that rids us of distractions, compromise and sin.  

Blessings,

Willa

That is the purpose of Lent, to help people.

 

 

[Guest]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 0:53 PM, thereselittleflower said:

That is the purpose of Lent, to help people.

 

 

I looked this subject up on a Catholic site, due to some  discussion here of the "feasts". Which were fulfilled and which were not... It really appeared unclear where the 40 days came from. It seems that some think it came from a mistake of translation. The feast appears to have been original one or two days. However when it comes to Christ  what did the first century Church believe his death and resurrection to accomplish?

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Lent - New Advent

www.newadvent.org › Catholic Encyclopedia › L

In the discussion of the feasts and Christ fulfillment of them, the thought occurred to me.

Christ as our Passover is sacrificed,

Christ our atonement is sacrificed,

Perhaps Christ at the Paschal season (Eastertide) is being acknowledged as our atoning sacrifice? Therefore to keep the commandments to afflict your souls, in connection with Yom kippur.

In short I think these things concern the person and work of Christ, not only on his cross, but his work in the resurrection, as his work in the heavenly temple as foreshadowed in the law.

 

Lev 16:29   And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
30  For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
31  It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.
32  And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest’s office in his father’s stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
 

33  And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.
 

Heb 9:20  Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21  Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22  And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23   It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25  Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26  For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

I think lent may have originally been to acknowledge the person and work of Christ in it's completion, or fullness. Which in his resurrection the heavely temple being cleansed, and sins atoned.

 

 

Heb 8:4  For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

5 hours ago, ejected said:

I observe lent everytime i dig into my pocket for some change at the check out.

 

Lent is a period of 40 days preceding the observance of Easter, where the observers are expected to fast or cease from having the use of some other “luxury.” Like the majority of modern, so-called Christian practices, its beginning can be traced to heathen practices.

In his book The Two Babylons, Alexander Hislop observed:

 

Let any one only read the atrocities that were commemorated during the 'sacred fast' or Pagan Lent, as described by Arnobius and Clemens Alexandrinus, and surely he must blush for the Christianity of those who, with the full knowledge of all these abominations, 'went down to Egypt for help' to stir up the languid devotion of the degenerate church, and who could find no more excellent way to 'revive' it, than by borrowing from so polluted a source; the absurdities and abominations connected with which the early Christian writers had held up to scorn. That Christians should ever think of introducing the Pagan abstinence of Lent was a sign of evil; it showed how low they had sunk, and it was also a cause of evil; it inevitably led to deeper degradation. Originally, even in Rome, Lent, with the preceding revelries of the carnival, was entirely unknown....

 

 

In the early 19th century, German explorer Alexander von Humboldt noted the practice among the pagans in Mexico, being held in the spring. His account states:

 

Three days after the vernal equinox…began a solemn fast of forty days in honour of the sun.

 

 

A Lent of forty days was also commemorated in Egypt. According to by English scholar John Landseer, in his Sabean Researches (1823), an Egyptian Lent of forty days was held in honor of Osiris.

Ejected, Alexander Hislop has been completely and thoroughly debunked.

His plethora of sources have been thoroughly investigated and found to be made up or his use of them completely lacking in crediblity.

• As a young evangelist, I began to preach on the mixture of paganism with Christianity, and eventually I wrote a book based on Hislop, titled Babylon Mystery Religion (Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Assn., 1966). In time, my book became quite popular, went through many printings, and was translated into Korean, German, Spanish, Portuguese, and several other languages. Hundreds quoted from it. Some regarded me as an authority on the subject of “pagan mixture.” Even the noted Roman Catholic writer Karl Keating said, “Its best-known proponent is Ralph Woodrow, author of Babylon Mystery Religion.”¹

  Many preferred my book over The Two Babylons because it was easier to read and understand. Sometimes the two books were confused with each other, and once I even had the experience of being greeted as “Reverend Hislop”! As time went on, however, I began to hear rumblings that Hislop was not a reliable historian. I heard this from a history teacher and in letters from people who heard this perspective expressed on the Bible Answer Man radio program. Even the Worldwide Church of God began to take a second look at the subject. As a result, I realized I needed to go back through Hislop’s work, my basic source, and prayerfully check it out.

  As I did this, it became clear: Hislop’s “history” was often only an arbitrary piecing together of ancient myths. He claimed Nimrod was a big, ugly, deformed black man. His wife, Semiramis, was a beautiful white woman with blond hair and blue eyes. But she was a back­slider known for her immoral lifestyle, the inventor of soprano singing and the originator of priestly celibacy. He said that the Baby­lon­ians baptized in water, believing it had virtue because Nimrod and Semiramis suffered for them in water; that Noah’s son Shem killed Nimrod; that Semiramis was killed when one of her sons cut off her head, and so on. I realized that no recognized history book substantiated these and many other claims.

• The subtitle for Hislop’s book is “The Papal Worship Proved to Be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife.” Yet when I went to refer­ence works such as the Encyclopedia Britannica, The Americana, The Jewish Encyclopedia, The Catholic Encyclopedia, The Worldbook Encyclopedia – carefully reading their articles on “Nimrod” and “Semiramis” — not one said anything about Nimrod and Semiramis being husband and wife. They did not even live in the same century. Nor is there any basis for Semiramis being the mother of Tammuz. I realized these ideas were all Hislop’s inventions.

• Hislop produced his own myths. By so doing, he theorized that Nimrod, Adonis, Apollo, Attes, Baal-zebub, Bacchus, Cupid, Dagon, Hercules, Januis, Linus, Lucifer, Mars, Merodach, Mithra, Moloch, Narcissus, Oannes, Odin, Orion, Osiris, Pluto, Saturn, Teitan, Typhon, Vulcan, Wodan, and Zoroaster were all one and the same. By mixing myths, Hislop supposed that Semiramis was the wife of Nimrod and was the same as Aphrodite, Artemis, Astarte, Aurora, Bellona, Ceres, Diana, Easter, Irene, Iris, Juno, Mylitta, Proserpine, Rhea, Venus, and Vesta.

  Take enough names, enough stories, and enough centuries; translate from one language to another; and a careless writer of the future might pass on all kinds of misinformation. Gerald Ford, an American president, might be confused with Henry Ford, the car manufacturer. Abraham Lincoln might end up as the inventor of the automobile, the proof being that many cars had the name “Lincoln.” The maiden name of Billy Graham’s wife is Bell. She has sometimes gone by the name Ruth Bell Graham. The inventor of the telephone was Alexander Graham Bell. By mixing up names, someone might end up saying Billy Graham was the inventor of the telephone; or that he invented Graham Crackers. In fact, the inventor of Graham Crackers was Sylvester Graham. Again, similarities could be pointed out. Both men were named Graham. Both men were ministers. But the differences make a real difference: Sylvester was a Presbyterian and Billy a Baptist, and they were from different generations.

  Building on similarities while ignoring differences is an unsound practice. Atheists have long used this method in an attempt to discredit Christianity altogether, citing examples of pagans who had similar beliefs about universal floods, slain and risen saviors, virgin mothers, heavenly ascensions, holy books, and so on.

• If finding a pagan parallel provides proof of paganism, the Lord Himself would be pagan. The woman called Mystery Babylon had a cup in her hand; the Lord has a cup in His hand (Ps. 75:8). Pagan kings sat on thrones and wore crowns; the Lord sits on a throne and wears a crown (Rev. 1:4; 14:14). Pagans worshiped the sun; the Lord is the “Sun of righteousness” (Mal. 4:2). Pagan gods were likened to stars; the Lord is called “the bright and Morning star” (Rev. 22:16). Pagan gods had temples dedicated to them; the Lord has a temple (Rev. 7:15). Pagans built a high tower in Babylon; the Lord is a high tower (2 Sam. 22:3). Pagans worshiped idolatrous pillars; the Lord appeared as a pillar of fire (Exod. 13: 21–22). Pagan gods were pictured with wings; the Lord is pictured with wings (Ps. 91:4).

 

http://www.equip.org/article/the-two-babylons/

 

I hope you will read the whole thing.    I hope you find within you the same integrity Ralph Woodrow had to act on what he discovered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

37 minutes ago, ejected said:

I observe lent every time I reach into my pocket for change at the check out. Why are Christians observing a pagan practice. Enquiring mind wants to know.

You are not understanding the fact that Satan is a counterfeiter. And no Hislop has not been refuted.  Seen a few Catholic authors claiming they have. Of course they would.

 

Now believe and do what you want. 

 

 

Ummm  if you're going to ignore that your source of information of pagan practices in Christianity has been thoroughly debunked and continue to make the same claims irregardless of their validty, then you are demonstrating to me you have no desire for serious, truthful discussion.

 

Woodrow is a Protestant Minister.

• Ralph Woodrow is an Evangelical Christian minister, speaker and presently the author of sixteen books. Woodrow formerly supported the thesis of 19th century Presbyterian churchman, Alexander Hislop, that Roman Catholicism is a syncretistic pagan religion in his bookBabylon Mystery Religion and gained a certain notoriety when he changed his view and pulled the work from circulation. His new viewpoint is documented in The Babylon Connection?.

  Woodrow has been in the ministry since the age of 18, where he has remained for over fifty years.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Woodrow

 

  He is the foremost authority on Hislop.   He personally researched every single reference by Hislop, at great cost and effort, and I linked you his findings.    He had to pull his own book at great financial loss to himself, because it was full of error - Hislop's errors. 

Maybe you should reconsider reading what I linked you to?

 

[thereselittleflower]

9 minutes ago, ejected said:

I'm not trying to get people mad at me. I've done years of studying on these subjects and can't help but share my findings.  When you discover a 'truth' aren't inclined to share it with others? If you believe Hislops work is questionable fine. Check other sources as well. Don't stop research. Be as the Bereans and study and search to see 'if these things be so?' Acts 17:11

Ive searched the NT and there is no Ash Wednesday or Lent.  I've studied false religions and many hold to these religious observances. By the way, when did you read 'The Two Babylons' by Hislop? 

 

Of course you know that the NT warns us about error, apostasy, heresy, hirelings, wolves, false doctrine, false teachers, false apostles, false prophets, doctrines of men and doctrines of devils, traditions of men that 'make the word of God of none effect'. We need to stick with His word, thats all I'm saying. 

 

I hope you don't think I am getting mad at you.  Far from it.

 

Why would I read a work that I know has been established to be deeply flawed and have no merit?

 

The sources one uses to study something matter greatly.

If one's sources are deeply flawed, so will the results of one's study of such sources be also deeply flawed.

 

You use Hislop as a source for your studies.   Hislop's work is deeply flawed.

Any conclusions you can arrive at based on his work will also be deeply flawed.

There is just no logical way around this.

 

I have given you the testimony of the world's expert on Hislop and the results of his very deep investigation into Hislop's claims and source materials.    Hislop's claims are fraudulent.   

Now if you continue to use Hislop's work as a scholarly work, then you will simply continue to end up with conclusions that remain deeply flawed.

 

I truly do hope you take time to really read what Ralph Woodrow has to say about all this and take it to heart.

 

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

49 minutes ago, ejected said:

Who is this guy that says Hislop is a fraud. I would like to know. Again their are others that have researched these things. Are they frauds to.  

And where in the NT is Ash Wednesday and lent endorsed? Let's cut to the chase. R u a Catholic?

The guy that says Hislop's work is fraudulant is the same guy that wrote  Babylon Mystery Religion which was a modernization of Hislop's Two Bablyons.  He became quite famous in the circles that looked up to Hislop.

 

Ralph Woodrow. Presbyterian Minister.

 

He pulled his own book  Babylon Mystery Religion at great financial loss to himself BECAUSE he discovered Hislop's work was full of error.

 

I linked you to his explanation of what happened and why and what he found.

http://www.equip.org/article/the-two-babylons/

 

 

 

Woodrow is a Protestant Minister.

• Ralph Woodrow is an Evangelical Christian minister, speaker and presently the author of sixteen books. Woodrow formerly supported the thesis of 19th century Presbyterian churchman, Alexander Hislop, that Roman Catholicism is a syncretistic pagan religion in his bookBabylon Mystery Religion and gained a certain notoriety when he changed his view and pulled the work from circulation. His new viewpoint is documented in The Babylon Connection?.

  Woodrow has been in the ministry since the age of 18, where he has remained for over fifty years.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Woodrow

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, ejected said:

A Presbyterian? Is he saved? And you didn't tell me yet where Ash Wednesday and lent is in the NT. 

Why don't you look into him and find out.

He has a great deal of honesty and integrity.

Regarding Lent, within Protestantism, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists observe Lent, and the practices involved in Lent are surely found in the Bible:

• Matthew 6:16-18 - 

  ¹⁶ Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

  ¹⁷ But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

  ¹⁸ That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

  
  Matthew 6:1-34 - Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.  
  
  Joel 2:12-13 -

  12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye [even] to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:

  13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he [is] gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

  
  
  Matthew 4:1-25 - Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.   
  
  1 Peter 5:6 - Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
  
  Isaiah 58:6-7 -6 [Is] not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

  7 [Is it] not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

  
  John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
  
  Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
  
          - And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
  
  Genesis 3:19 - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
  
  1 Peter 1:3 - Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
  
  Isaiah 43:25 - I, [even] I, [am] he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
  
  Luke 6:12-15 - And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.   
  
  John 13:1-17 - Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.   
  
  Matthew 9:15 - And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
  
  Daniel 9:3 - And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:
  
  Acts 26:20 - But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
  
  2 Corinthians 6:2 - (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation.)
  
  Luke 13:3 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

9 minutes ago, ejected said:

I said New Testament.

First, there were several quotes from the NT.   13 out of 18 were from the NT, so you were saying?

 

Quote

Also Jesus said 'when you fast, wash your face..' How does that equate with putting ashes on your face?.

Second, all I can say is REALLY?

Can you show me where the NT says we should use cell phones?  Or TV's?  Or go to movies?  or use coffemakers?  Or   . . . . .   (the list would go on forever.)

If everything we do must be found in the bible, then may I suggest you stop using cars, and start traveling by foot, donkey or horse and chariot; stop using electric or gas ovens and stoves, and use fire instead, only wear sandals and robe, draw your water from wells, etc, etc, etc.

 

 

 

[Guest Teditis]

Doesn't the Bible mention in several places that repentance took the form of wearing sackcloth and ashes?

[HAZARD]

The word lent is mentioned 7 times in the Bible and in ever Scripture it is mentioned, it has to do with lending or not lending something and has nothing to do with Easter, a which is pagan holiday!

Exod. 12:36, And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.
Deut. 23:19, Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:
1 Sam. 1:28, Therefore also I have lent him to the LORD; as long as he liveth he shall be lent to the LORD. And he worshipped the LORD there.
1 Sam. 2:20, And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife, and said, The LORD give thee seed of this woman for the loan  which is lent to the LORD. And they went unto their own home.
Jer. 15:10, Woe is me, my mother, that thou hast borne me a man of strife and a man of contention to the whole earth! I have neither lent on usury, nor men have lent to me on usury; yet every one of them doth curse me