JohnD Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 Revelation is packed with symbolism and its progressions will loop back on themselves... a Mid Eastern manner of story telling... generally (not always) hitting the highlights and looping back to fill in the details... After these things / meta tauta in chapter four Western preachers really harp on to establish a rigid timeline of the events. Doesn't fit however... not beyond certain chapters... Example: Revelation 12:7–10 (AV) 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. That happened on the cross did it not? Before the cross, seeing the event prophetically Jesus uttered this at a contemporary victory his disciples experienced... Luke 10:17–18 (AV) 17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2016 4 hours ago, JohnD said: Jesus was not addressing the actual devil, he was attributing human reason / interpretation / opposition / interference to Satan. There is only God's way and not God's way. As much as we love ourselves (our race our humanity) and hope deep down we are good kind of... we are not. Fallen humanity of of the devil. So is our will and our reasoning. Look at Matthew 16 beginning at verse 13 through 23. Everything of man was wrong. Everything of God was right. The actual devil was not part of the conversation at all. Fine and good but I don't think Jesus chose to address Satan for no reason. I think it speaks more to influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Last Daze said: Fine and good but I don't think Jesus chose to address Satan for no reason. I think it speaks more to influence. Precisely what I just said. Fallen humanity is satanic. We like to think otherwise, but it's not. Jesus was simply cutting to the chase on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 I was also pointing out by this thread a curious notion that the beasts of Revelation 13 are a single beast that appear twice and are the embodiment of a third (the dragon / devil) beast #1 as Judas Iscariot (Luke22:3, John 13:26-27 / John 17:12, 2 Thessalonians 2:3) ending with his incarceration in "his place" (Acts 1:25) beast #2 his being freed from that prison (Revelation 20:1-3) Beast #1 betrays the true Christ Beast #2 claims to be the true Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 Jesus said to the Jewish people opposing him: John 5:43 (AV) 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? Think about this a moment. The whole world is taken in by this beast. Skeptics, atheists, religions of every kind... except for those filled with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 24:24)... all WORSHIPING this guy. What could so convince these many many many people? Answer: a man who can scientifically prove he lived 2000 years ago and is back from the dead. Blood tests, DNA, something. Would this not impact the whole world and would it not lend credence to this guy's claims of deity? For the first half of this seven year period (Daniel's 70th Week), he will affirm THE covenant (Daniel 9:27) with the many... The covenant expressed elsewhere in Daniel as the holy covenant (the Old Covenant). He will claim to be the Messiah (Revelation 13:11) having two horns of a lamb but speaking as a dragon... Jesus mentioned a prophetic clue that most do not catch in Matthew 24:20 pray that your flight is not in winter or on the Sabbath day... Flight in winter is the depiction of that flight being arduous at best... and along with it would be fleeing on the Sabbath day in the holy land if the Sabbath laws are in force if the enforcers of Sabbath laws have no problem with current events † † those events will be the beast ascending to the holiest place to the mercy seat / throne to claim to be God (Matthew 24:15-20 / 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11) Because the Sabbath laws in all Jewish history have never ever taken precedence over fight or flight. The battle of Jericho, prime example, in which the march was seven times greater on the Sabbath AND the battle was fought on the Sabbath day when the walls came down. So Jesus in Matthew 24:20 was not referring to the keeping of Sabbath laws by those fleeing. He was referring to those who would hinder their flight by enforcing the Sabbath laws who would be a-okay with ascending to the Temple, to the holiest place, to sit on the mercy seat and claim to be God. And what Jewish person or religious leader in their right mind would do this unless they were convinced that the beast was in fact the genuine Messiah? What does all this say about the beast? he will be Jewish he will have the Jewish people who reject Jesus convinced that he (the beast) is the Messiah he will have built the 3rd temple (which is what 666 is about) he will have for a time, times, and half a time promoted Old Testament Judaism to the forefront of the entire world When you look into Judaism (the kind that rejects Jesus) you will find these are the criteria for the coming Messiah. Zechariah 8:23 (AV) 23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. Revelation 17:12–13 (AV) 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2016 37 minutes ago, JohnD said: Think about this a moment. The whole world is taken in by this beast. Skeptics, atheists, religions of every kind... except for those filled with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 24:24)... all WORSHIPING this guy. What could so convince these many many many people? Answer: a man who can scientifically prove he lived 2000 years ago and is back from the dead. Blood tests, DNA, something. Would this not impact the whole world and would it not lend credence to this guy's claims of deity? No. They already worship the head of the rome abomination. They serve the enemy of Christ faithfully - self - deluded because they want to : they refuse the Light , they reject the True Jesus and His Word. They have been deceived by anti-Bible doctrines since constantine and earlier in Scripture when it is written there are many anti-Christs AMONG us. Billions on earth reject Jesus but gladly serve demons and as you said THEY WELCOME THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD 42 minutes ago, JohnD said: John 5:43 (AV) 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 666 The number appears only four times in the entire Bible. 1 Kings 10:14 (AV) 14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold, 2 Chronicles 9:13 (AV) 13 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred and threescore and six talents of gold; Ezra 2:13 (AV) 13 The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six.† Revelation 13:18 (AV) 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. † The clan of Adonikam increased in the very next census to 667 (Nehemiah 7:18) which would seem to belay further focus on that clan other than its name which in Hebrew is "risen lord." Revelation 13:3... Solomon (whose name is Peace) is the obvious focus here. Jeremiah 6:14 (AV) 14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. Jeremiah 8:11 (AV) 11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. Revelation 6:2 (AV) 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow†; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. † a bow without arrows symbolic of peace Solomon's claims to fame are wisdom, understanding, riches, and being the first Temple builder. A thing that God did not command him to do. When God specifically told David (who had the notion first) not to build the Temple, God spoke of AN heir to David who would build the Temple, which David interpreted to mean his immediate next heir Solomon. 1 Chronicles 22:7–11 (AV) 7 And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God: 8 But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. 9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. 10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. 11 Now, my son, the LORD be with thee; and prosper thou, and build the house of the LORD thy God, as he hath said of thee. The text in question is: 2 Samuel 7:12–17 (AV) 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity†, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. 17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David. † or, if iniquity be found in him (2 Corinthians 5:21 / Isaiah 53:3-10) The accurate interpretation of which is... Zechariah 6:12–13 (AV) 12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: 13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. And the Temple he (Jesus, heir of David) builds: 1 Corinthians 3:16 (AV) 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? Also no mention of Solomon or the Temple occurs in Hebrews 8:5. Hebrews 8:5 (AV) 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. So, God made concession / allowance for the Temples (as he had the monarchy see 1 Samuel 8). Which history bears out: Israel was seldom in the will and on good terms with God from that point onward the Levitical sacrifices were confined to a single place meaning when the temple was destroyed or defiled sacrifice ceased the temple itself was no longer prophetic of the messiah or his body of believers Calculating the number of the beast (Revelation 13:18) is a matter of the precise number of years (to the day) between the destruction of the Temple in 586 BCE and 70 CE (in 360 day prophetic years). 586 + 70 = 656 x 365.25 = 239604 ÷ 360 = 665.56666667† † keeping in mind both Temples were destroyed on the same calendar date (Tisha b' Av) 666 prophetic years to the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 minute ago, simplejeff said: No. They already worship the head of the rome abomination. They serve the enemy of Christ faithfully - self - deluded because they want to : they refuse the Light , they reject the True Jesus and His Word. They have been deceived by anti-Bible doctrines since constantine and earlier in Scripture when it is written there are many anti-Christs AMONG us. Billions on earth reject Jesus but gladly serve demons and as you said THEY WELCOME THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD Oh? Skeptics do? Atheists do? Jews and Muslims do? Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 As Flower will attest, I am no fan of Roman Catholicism. But I am not willing to join the long line of Protestants and martyrs who blamed it for everything that ever went wrong with everything... Some suggest the antichrist may rise up through RCC ranks... but I don't even see this myself... but that's okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 17, 2016 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2016 37 minutes ago, JohnD said: Think about this a moment. The whole world is taken in by this beast. Skeptics, atheists, religions of every kind... except for those filled with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 24:24)... all WORSHIPING this guy. What could so convince these many many many people? Answer: a man who can scientifically prove he lived 2000 years ago and is back from the dead. Blood tests, DNA, something. Would this not impact the whole world and would it not lend credence to this guy's claims of deity? No. They already worship the head of the rome abomination. They serve the enemy of Christ faithfully - self - deluded because they want to : they refuse the Light , they reject the True Jesus and His Word. They have been deceived by anti-Bible doctrines since constantine and earlier in Scripture when it is written there are many anti-Christs AMONG us. Billions on earth reject Jesus but gladly serve demons and as you said THEY WELCOME THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD 42 minutes ago, JohnD said: John 5:43 (AV) 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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