Connection between heaven and the temple

[mevosper]

I wanted to share a viewpoint I have just recently started to consider. While listening to 2 Peter 3:10, another idea came to mind about what maybe meant by “the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements melt with fervent heat…”. At first look, this seems to be talking about the heavens we see above our heads. I had the expectation that with some sort of loud noise, maybe even a violent disruption, the heavens would disappear. I had even thought this disappearing and the elements melting with fervent heat maybe due to a nuclear explosion.

 

So my thought process started like this.

 

Imagine being given the key to the entire library of God’s knowledge. All the wisdom that God used to create the heavens and the earth is within your grasp. You have access to his thoughts and ideas for how things need to be. You are entitled to learn everything there is about what God has to offer. This library is the source for unbound knowledge. Deeper than the oceans, and higher than the stars. Every question answered. Every answered question. You can absorb and learn as much as you desire. The magnitude of this library in human terms is this: It is humanly impossible to be ever without a moment of learning in this library.

 

Where is heaven?

What I see is more about where heaven is rather than how many there are. For the sake of argument, the key is: heaven is where God dwells. Israel, through Moses, was given this exact key. With this key, they were in the presence of the Creator himself and had access to His library. He made his abode with them (Ex 29:43-46).

 

[Exo 29:45 KJV]

And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.

 

From here, the path leads me to a connection between heaven, Israel, and the temple. Isaiah 66 and Exodus 25 further this connection. Isaiah 66 declares heaven is God’s throne.

 

[Isa 66:1 KJV] Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

 

Exodus 25 says God will meet with the children of Israel from his throne, or heaven. As with any, the throne is where the king holds court, passes judgment, issues decrees, and talks with the people, and in this case, atones for sin. Exodus gives instruction from the Creator about how to build his throne, and what it was to be used for.  

 

[Exo 25:21, 22 KJV] And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. [22] And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

( as a side note: John 20:11, 12 show an interesting “fulfillment” between those Exodus verses and Christ’s sepulcher. )

 

The verses in Exodus and Isaiah lead me to believe that heaven, God’s thrones, is actually in the Holy of Holies of the temple, if not the entire temple itself. This is significant. What makes this so significant? This is the part that may raise some questions.

 

[2Pe 3:10 KJV]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The children of Israel, and specifically the priests, scribes, and Pharisees, had direct access to the God of the universe, the Creator of all. When this access was given to everyone (including the Gentiles) this, to me seems like a VERY traumatic event. It could be the end of an age. This event would be the end of a way of life for the past 1200+ years.

What are your thoughts on these connections?

[simplejeff]

Yes.  It is traumatic, for everyone who rejects Christ.

PURE ECSTATIC JOY for everyone living in Him.

 

[Sister]

Mesvoper

I was having a really good look at this tonight and I noticed something in this verse;

 2 Peter 3:10   But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

When we read this verse, our eyes catch half way through the sentence, concentrating on that, when the first part of the sentence reveals more.

The Lord only comes as a thief in the night if we are not prepared, or asleep spiritually.  The NT does not only speak to the last generation, but all generations that followed Christ.  So if one died say 100 years ago, and he died on a night that he did something terrible against the Lord, and death took him by surprise THAT NIGHT, then when that person is woken up for judgement and faces Christ, it would be fair to say he died in his sins right?

And if we die in our sins, and Christ comes "as a thief in the night" to catch one out (on purpose), ie catches him not wearing his garment of righteousness and sees his nakedness, because this person has not repented, then this poor soul will not be in the FIRST RESURRECTION.  He will take part in the SECOND RESURRECTION instead.

After the second judgement takes place, we have all the sheep on one side, and all the goats on the other side.  The goats go into the lake of fire.  What we have left are all the saints combined from the first and second resurrections presented to God from Christ all one.  Now God will destroy the heavens and the earth and make a new one.

So this "day of the Lord" spoken about, is after Christ get's the last say at JUDGEMENT.  If we are in this JUDGEMENT then mercy has not been given.  We did not make the calling. The thief in the night, will stand before us in THE SECOND JUDGEMENT, not the first resurrection.

So if we read the whole chapter, we can see the context and the warning;

  2 Peter 3:2   That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
  2 Peter 3:3   Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
 2 Peter 3:4   And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
 

2 Peter 3:10   But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 2 Peter 3:11   Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
 2 Peter 3:12   Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
 2 Peter 3:13   Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 2 Peter 3:14   Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

And there we have it!  This is what we all yearn for, when evil is destroyed forever and God's whole plan has been fulfilled right to the end, as this is the absolute highlight and end result of God's purpose for everything,  and where we are all heading for in hope.  This is when all the elements will be gone, after the 2nd judgement.  It will be a new heaven and a new earth made for all the saints with the host of heaven.  The day of the Lord. not the other day, the second coming, but the finale.  There's a difference.

What do you think?

Edited February 19, 2016 by Sister

[Ezra]

On 15/02/2016 at 8:14 AM, mevosper said:

What are your thoughts on these connections?

1. The Temple in Jerusalem does not exist at the moment, and the Ark of the Covenant was taken up to Heaven long ago.

2. Heaven has existed from eternity past, and that is where God and Christ are.

3. There is also a Temple in Heaven called "the sanctuary", and this is the true Holy of Holies. That is where God and Christ are.

4. 2 Peter 3:10 does not refer to God's Heaven (the third heaven) but rather the atmospheric and stratospheric heavens surrounding the earth.

[Sister]

5 hours ago, Ezra said:

1. The Temple in Jerusalem does not exist at the moment, and the Ark of the Covenant was taken up to Heaven long ago.

Can you show where this is written? 

 

 

[Sister]

Mesvoper

 

Quote

 

[Isa 66:1 KJV] Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

 

Exodus 25 says God will meet with the children of Israel from his throne, or heaven. As with any, the throne is where the king holds court, passes judgment, issues decrees, and talks with the people, and in this case, atones for sin. Exodus gives instruction from the Creator about how to build his throne, and what it was to be used for.  

 

 

Jesus explained that God does not dwell in temples made with hands.

When God meets with the children of Israel it will be according to his authority, his Word.

 

 

 

Quote

 

[Exo 25:21, 22 KJV] And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. [22] And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

( as a side note: John 20:11, 12 show an interesting “fulfillment” between those Exodus verses and Christ’s sepulcher. )

 

 

God communicated with Israel through his commandments. Those commandments are written in stone, and kept in a safe place for a witness.  Till today, the Ark of the Covenant is hidden from men in the earth, but we have the commandments recorded in the OT for us. 

 

The Ark of the Covenant's whereabouts containing the commandments and the mercy seat will be revealed to Israel and the whole world after the Mark of the Beast is introduced.

If the spirit of God has been guiding us, we should already know where it's real location is today.

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

19 minutes ago, Sister said:

 

Quote

Ezra said:

1. The Temple in Jerusalem does not exist at the moment, and the Ark of the Covenant was taken up to Heaven long ago.

 

Can you show where this is written? 

• Rev 11:19

  ¶ And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

It's not on earth anymore.

 

 

[Sister]

therese

Are you sure the Ark of the testament is the same as ....

the Ark of the Covenant?

It could well be but when I think about it;

The Ark of the Covenant contained the 10 commandments.  This was for Israel.  It was physically built with man's hands (under God's instructions).  They carried this around.  This was a copy made for man to acknowledge God's covenant with Israel.  It was holy and it was proof of that covenant, ....God's laws and promises made with Israel.

So would it make sense that the Ark of the Covenant is the full testament?  or only the first half?

What about the full testament which Christ delivered?  With both the Old and the New testaments both fulfilled.

Do you think the Ark of the testament is made out of man's materials to be carried around in heaven? 

Please enlighten me, I am learning.

 

 

[Kan]

The temple on earth with the furniture was a replica of the temple in heaven, with the exception that the temple in heaven does not have the first altar of burnt offerings, which symbolized the death of Christ. The earth is the altar for the heavenly sanctuary, where the Lamb of God was offered.

Within the most holy place stood the ark which contained the tables of stone, of the ten laws of God. The ark in heaven has the identical, yet original set.

Long before the sanctuary service on earth was terminated, the ark with the law in it, was removed from the temple and hidden by devout Jews, who sensed by the words of the Prophets that Israel was so far in apostasy, that the temple and Jerusalem was in danger of being pilfered and destroyed. I think it was in the days of Hezekiah that this took place, and the ark was hidden in a cave with the entrance then covered with rocks.

I believe what Sister said is true, that when the world is faced with a challenge to the laws of God that the ark with the laws inside will be found. But it is possible in my opinion, that this discovery will happen when it is too late to repent, and that it will be as an omen of doom to a world which has rejected God's rightful authority, and is busy in ridding the earth of those who did not receive the mark of the beast.

 

[mevosper]

 

On 2/19/2016 at 8:43 AM, Sister said:

Mesvoper

I was having a really good look at this tonight and I noticed something in this verse;

 2 Peter 3:10   But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

When we read this verse, our eyes catch half way through the sentence, concentrating on that, when the first part of the sentence reveals more.

The Lord only comes as a thief in the night if we are not prepared, or asleep spiritually.  The NT does not only speak to the last generation, but all generations that followed Christ.  So if one died say 100 years ago, and he died on a night that he did something terrible against the Lord, and death took him by surprise THAT NIGHT, then when that person is woken up for judgement and faces Christ, it would be fair to say he died in his sins right?

And if we die in our sins, and Christ comes "as a thief in the night" to catch one out (on purpose), ie catches him not wearing his garment of righteousness and sees his nakedness, because this person has not repented, then this poor soul will not be in the FIRST RESURRECTION.  He will take part in the SECOND RESURRECTION instead.

After the second judgement takes place, we have all the sheep on one side, and all the goats on the other side.  The goats go into the lake of fire.  What we have left are all the saints combined from the first and second resurrections presented to God from Christ all one.  Now God will destroy the heavens and the earth and make a new one.

So this "day of the Lord" spoken about, is after Christ get's the last say at JUDGEMENT.  If we are in this JUDGEMENT then mercy has not been given.  We did not make the calling. The thief in the night, will stand before us in THE SECOND JUDGEMENT, not the first resurrection.

So if we read the whole chapter, we can see the context and the warning;

  2 Peter 3:2   That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
  2 Peter 3:3   Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
 2 Peter 3:4   And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
 

2 Peter 3:10   But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 2 Peter 3:11   Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
 2 Peter 3:12   Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
 2 Peter 3:13   Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 2 Peter 3:14   Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

And there we have it!  This is what we all yearn for, when evil is destroyed forever and God's whole plan has been fulfilled right to the end, as this is the absolute highlight and end result of God's purpose for everything,  and where we are all heading for in hope.  This is when all the elements will be gone, after the 2nd judgement.  It will be a new heaven and a new earth made for all the saints with the host of heaven.  The day of the Lord. not the other day, the second coming, but the finale.  There's a difference.

What do you think?

I think "the day of the Lord" is outside the scope of this topic.