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If satan knows the end. Why don't he stop it.


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54 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

I didn't say one could be tempted without one having a conscience.

It is our conscience that tells us the difference between right and wrong.   

 

 

 If one does something wrong and they know its wrong( as we all have, many times ) who is the tempter? You alone have tempted yourself, and committed a wrongful act -- with full knowledge it was wrong.

  Then God said to him in the dream, “Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience, and so I have kept(S) you from sinning against me

 Without knowledge ( coming from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil ) there can be no sin, just as we lived before receiving Knowledge. 

A Conscience Must have Knowledge of Good and Evil to function. You cannot remove Knowledge from your Conscience. The struggles we all fight are in the confines of our own Conscience ( a battle of Good vs. Evil ). 

 You said " it is not our conscience that tempts us. " --- Should I always blame Satan or others for falling into sinful temptation. I believe God gives me the Knowledge and Conscience to avoid sin. In those instances where I have no Knowledge of Evil, yet I commit a sin, I believe God will hold me harmless as I did not have the Knowledge to fend off the sin. I also believe forgiveness is not given to those who blame anyone or anything( outside of themselves ) in repentance. Should we not shoulder the responsibility for our sins? A good example is Adam and Eve --- both blamed someone else, neither forgiven.

 A Conscience must be comprised of Knowledge of Good and Evil, an area for the battles between Good and Evil, and something like a morale like a compass to guide us on the Right path. There can be No Temptation w/o Knowledge. To say " it is not our Conscience that temps us " is the same as saying that " Knowledge has no relevance with Temptation. " .... Thus, if Adam and Eve had no Knowledge of the Tree, they could have eaten with a clear Conscience, and as the verse above demonstrates, God would have probably prevented them from sin. Without Knowledge, they could not have been Tempted but, they had Knowledge and were Tempted.

 If I can put an infant in a crib and watch over it, keeping from it harm,.... how much more so could God have kept us from eating of the Tree? I believe it is all part of his Glorious plan. To me, God is infallible and his purpose will be served, whether we know or understand it.  Peace

 

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41 minutes ago, Ezra said:

This question indicates a very serious misunderstanding of Bible truth and that pronouncement of Christ. You would need to go back to square one to get the answer.

I think it means you're contradicting yourself or scripture.

The scripture plainly says Jesus only lost one - that's what the word "except" signifies here:

  • John 17:12  While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

 

"none ... except" means just that.   It doesn't mean none at all were lost.   It means "none have been lost EXCEPT"  - that means there is an EXCEPTION to the statement "none has been lost" and then Jesus tells us who that exception to the "none lost" is   -  .Judas.

So Judas had to be included in the ones Jesus tells us were given to Him, that He had, otherwise there could be no EXCEPTION to His statement "none has been lost."  So Judas had to have been one of the ones who belonged to Jesus.

If Judas never belonged to Jesus, then there was never really a 12th Apostle, then Judas never had  a position as an Apostle,  and then there was never an empty 12th apostle position to fill and then Peter and the rest of the Apostles were wrong when they filled it in Acts:

  • Acts 1
  •  15At this time Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together), and said, 16“Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. 17“For he was counted among us and received his share in this ministry.” 18(Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out. 19And it became known to all who were living in Jerusalem; so that in their own language that field was called Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

    20“For it is written in the book of Psalms,
                ‘LET HIS HOMESTEAD BE MADE DESOLATE,
                AND LET NO ONE DWELL IN IT’;
                and,
                ‘LET ANOTHER MAN TAKE HIS OFFICE.’

    21“Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—22beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. 24And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.

If Judas never belonged to Jesus, how did he have an apostleship, an office given by Jesus Himself to turn from, which needed then to be filled by another?

 

Judas belonged to Jesus.

 

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38 minutes ago, bfloydo said:

 If one does something wrong and they know its wrong( as we all have, many times ) who is the tempter? You alone have tempted yourself, and committed a wrongful act -- with full knowledge it was wrong.

  Then God said to him in the dream, “Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience, and so I have kept(S) you from sinning against me

 Without knowledge ( coming from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil ) there can be no sin, just as we lived before receiving Knowledge. 

A Conscience Must have Knowledge of Good and Evil to function. You cannot remove Knowledge from your Conscience. The struggles we all fight are in the confines of our own Conscience ( a battle of Good vs. Evil ). 

 You said " it is not our conscience that tempts us. " --- Should I always blame Satan or others for falling into sinful temptation. I believe God gives me the Knowledge and Conscience to avoid sin. In those instances where I have no Knowledge of Evil, yet I commit a sin, I believe God will hold me harmless as I did not have the Knowledge to fend off the sin. I also believe forgiveness is not given to those who blame anyone or anything( outside of themselves ) in repentance. Should we not shoulder the responsibility for our sins? A good example is Adam and Eve --- both blamed someone else, neither forgiven.

 A Conscience must be comprised of Knowledge of Good and Evil, an area for the battles between Good and Evil, and something like a morale like a compass to guide us on the Right path. There can be No Temptation w/o Knowledge. To say " it is not our Conscience that temps us " is the same as saying that " Knowledge has no relevance with Temptation. " .... Thus, if Adam and Eve had no Knowledge of the Tree, they could have eaten with a clear Conscience, and as the verse above demonstrates, God would have probably prevented them from sin. Without Knowledge, they could not have been Tempted but, they had Knowledge and were Tempted.

 If I can put an infant in a crib and watch over it, keeping from it harm,.... how much more so could God have kept us from eating of the Tree? I believe it is all part of his Glorious plan. To me, God is infallible and his purpose will be served, whether we know or understand it.  Peace

 

There are other aspects to you other than your conscience, and if the temptation arises from within you, it arises from one of these other aspects of yourself.

 

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The conscience thing is made more clear in this reckoning:

1 Jn 3:19-21

19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
KJV
increasing the understanding of Rom 7 in this battle of flesh vs s/Spirit....
It is as Paul entered into chapter 8 of Rom the confidence in Jesus deliverance even
though he himself sees condemnation... 
Love, Steven

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2 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

There are other aspects to you other than your conscience, and if the temptation arises from within you, it arises from one of these other aspects of yourself.

 

The Mind and Conscience are inseparable, They work in unison with each other. Let me try and agree with you and say " Yes there are different aspects in me that can cause Temptation. " As an example " My Mind Tempted my Conscience as I saw a woman, and lusted for her. " Should my Conscience convict my Mind of Tempting it? Should I gouge my eyes out so my eyes wont allow me to see lustful things ...opps, no that wont work as I know dont need eyes to see -- I can dream and envision things within my mind. Thankfully the Lord, can both strengthen us in Mind/ and Cleanse Conscience. The Lord does his good works in the place where temptation is rooted your Mind/ Conscience.

 I suppose if you wanted to say I am wrong, This verse of Jesus might be useful to you :

If your right eye causes you to stumble,(AI) gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble,(AJ) cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 Surly we would all soon become blind, deaf, dumb, and dismembered if we took this literally. We also know that blind, deaf, dumb, or dismembered people are capable of sin. I am pretty sure he is speaking of cutting sinful nature from both Mind/ and Conscience.

 Going back to a root of this discussion --  you said  " it is not our conscience that tempts us. "   Lets go back to the beginning and ask " Who Tempted Satan, was it God or Angels ?? or could it have been his own Mind/ Conscience(internal thoughts) ?? Temptation it born in our Mind/Conscience . Temptation cannot exit in an environment void of Knowledge and Conscience. I admit that A person or Spirit may put a temptation before you, but It is you and your Mind/ Conscience that has some measure of desire for it to be so, if not it would not be tempting. Out of your own desire comes the struggle to do or do not, which is decided by your own Mind/ Conscience.

Temptation originates from our own desires, if it is something we dont have a desire to do --how is that tempting?

 

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24 minutes ago, bfloydo said:

The Mind and Conscience are inseparable, They work in unison with each other. Let me try and agree with you and say " Yes there are different aspects in me that can cause Temptation. " As an example " My Mind Tempted my Conscience as I saw a woman, and lusted for her. " Should my Conscience convict my Mind of Tempting it? Should I gouge my eyes out so my eyes wont allow me to see lustful things ...opps, no that wont work as I know dont need eyes to see -- I can dream and envision things within my mind. Thankfully the Lord, can both strengthen us in Mind/ and Cleanse Conscience. The Lord does his good works in the place where temptation is rooted your Mind/ Conscience.

 I suppose if you wanted to say I am wrong, This verse of Jesus might be useful to you :

If your right eye causes you to stumble,(AI) gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble,(AJ) cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 Surly we would all soon become blind, deaf, dumb, and dismembered if we took this literally. We also know that blind, deaf, dumb, or dismembered people are capable of sin. I am pretty sure he is speaking of cutting sinful nature from both Mind/ and Conscience.

 Going back to a root of this discussion --  you said  " it is not our conscience that tempts us. "   Lets go back to the beginning and ask " Who Tempted Satan, was it God or Angels ?? or could it have been his own Mind/ Conscience(internal thoughts) ?? Temptation it born in our Mind/Conscience . Temptation cannot exit in an environment void of Knowledge and Conscience. I admit that A person or Spirit may put a temptation before you, but It is you and your Mind/ Conscience that has some measure of desire for it to be so, if not it would not be tempting. Out of your own desire comes the struggle to do or do not, which is decided by your own Mind/ Conscience.

Temptation originates from our own desires, if it is something we dont have a desire to do --how is that tempting?

 

Your conscience is not your volition.  Your conscience is not your will.

Your conscience does not make decisions.  Your conscience does not desire.   Your mind and will does.    Your conscience merely informs.  It informs of the morality of a situation.   Your mind decides what you will do, and your will executes it.

Satan fell to temptation because he ignored his conscience, warped it, until it conformed to his desire.  His temptation came from his desire to be like the most high.

 

 

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cause hes not God

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24 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

 

Satan fell to temptation because he ignored his conscience, warped it, until it conformed to his desire.  His temptation came from his desire to be like the most high.

 

   Your statement ..................

    Temptation originates from our own desires, if it is something we dont have a desire to do --how is that tempting?

    My statement ......... Looks like we agree !!! :D

  Our thick heads and our stiff necks, contains All the Knowledge/ Conscience/ Love/ Hate/ Desire/ Thought and Spirituality and more in what we call a Brain(Mind). They cannot be separated. What effects function of our Thoughts(Mind) affects many other(if not all)Thoughts in our Mind. If I effect a change on my body by cutting off a toe, it has no affect on the function of my finger. Can you warp a Conscience, without warping the Mind? 

The Lord saw that humanity had become thoroughly evil on the earth and that every idea their minds thought up was always completely evil.

  God Almighty did not blame Satan for the evil, nay he blamed the Mind of man. So if ones Mind makes a bad decision and gets caught in Sin, is not also the conscience affected.?

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1 hour ago, thereselittleflower said:

Satan fell to temptation because he ignored his conscience, warped it, until it conformed to his desire.  His temptation came from his desire to be like the most high.

 

 

Are you sure Satan had/has a conscience....    I personally don't think so.

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3 hours ago, other one said:

Are you sure Satan had/has a conscience....    I personally don't think so.

I considered that.   But in thinking about it I realized the angels had to choose.   Something had to direct their choice.   Knowledge of good and evil had to be theirs to make such a choice.  That is the function of the conscience.   If they didn't have a conscience like ours, then logically speaking, it must have been something similar.

 

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